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  #24941  
Old Yesterday, 23:06
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Re: Coronavirus

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1) check small-pox & more recent Rinderpest

2) government in CH is the people - raise petition , collect votes , have it country-wide voted down and you done.

There is no "politicians" or "government" to blame here - there is us responsible for future of our own when we cast our votes.
First, I am not quite sure why you reference CH here as I make no reference to CH in particular so why are you referencing CH and voting?

And are you equating COVID with Smallpox? Think the fatality rates differ and then some:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/rebecca...h=20d59c3847a7
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  #24942  
Old Yesterday, 23:16
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Re: Coronavirus

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Explain how that works since we have never been able to eradicate the flu?
SARS was also from a coronavirus. It has been eradicated.
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And yet this so-called "pandemic"/"endemic" has a fatality rate of .02% of the general populace but we need to live in fear?
It's 2%. If the whole population of 7.8B is infected with the same case-fatality ratio, 140 millions will perish. Shouldn't we be careful?
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Governments are in control of whether you vaccinate or not. Whatever happened to my body/my choice?
Can I say the same thing about the law against drinking and driving?
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This is beyond nuts/crazy!
I agree
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  #24943  
Old Yesterday, 23:23
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Re: Coronavirus

@ Terrifisch

Definition of a pandemic "occurring over a wide geographic area (such as multiple countries or continents) and typically affecting a significant proportion of the population."
It has nothing to do with the death rate.

Which governments want to eradicate the virus? Do you have a source?

Contradicting Trump, Fauci Doesn’t ‘See Us Eradicating’ Covid-19.
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  #24944  
Old Yesterday, 23:25
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Re: Coronavirus

I knew there must been a reason why I didn't want to be part of this - time to correct that mistake .
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  #24945  
Old Yesterday, 23:27
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Re: Coronavirus

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First, I am not quite sure why you reference CH here as I make no reference to CH in particular so why are you referencing CH and voting?

And are you equating COVID with Smallpox? Think the fatality rates differ and then some:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/rebecca...h=20d59c3847a7
This is a Swiss forum!
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  #24946  
Old Yesterday, 23:35
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Re: Coronavirus

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This is a Swiss forum!
My comments were in general and did not refer to the Swiss Government Marton
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  #24947  
Old Yesterday, 23:36
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Re: Coronavirus

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SARS was also from a coronavirus. It has been eradicated.

It's 2%. If the whole population of 7.8B is infected with the same case-fatality ratio, 140 millions will perish. Shouldn't we be careful?

Can I say the same thing about the law against drinking and driving?

I agree
Hmm... your 2% figure I think is conflated as those who died with COVID as opposed to those who died from COVID.

And the long-term effects of lockdowns? Have you analyzed that? Tough to call since that will take time to assess... I sense that the long-term consequences on youth and the populace at large not good from a mental health and economic perspective.

As to your drinking/driving comment... Not sure how much relevance that has here. What about the abortion debate? Each woman is entitled to make her choice - her body/her choice. That to me is more relevant/applicable regarding the vaccine uptake.
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  #24948  
Old Yesterday, 23:44
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Re: Coronavirus

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First, I am not quite sure why you reference CH here as I make no reference to CH in particular so why are you referencing CH and voting?

And are you equating COVID with Smallpox? Think the fatality rates differ and then some:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/rebecca...h=20d59c3847a7
- it's Swiss forum
- this thread is under Living in Switzerland

- I never mentioned COVID - i just gave you example of virus eradication in recent history
- I never mention anything about fatality rate


Perhaps you attribute to me someones else comments or words - which I won't accept !
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  #24949  
Old Yesterday, 23:59
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Re: Coronavirus

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Hmm... your 2% figure I think is conflated as those who died with COVID as opposed to those who died from COVID.

And the long-term effects of lockdowns? Have you analyzed that? Tough to call since that will take time to assess... I sense that the long-term consequences on youth and the populace at large not good from a mental health and economic perspective.

As to your drinking/driving comment... Not sure how much relevance that has here. What about the abortion debate? Each woman is entitled to make her choice - her body/her choice. That to me is more relevant/applicable regarding the vaccine uptake.

Regarding the fatality, I took the official data. It might not be very precise, but is certainly closer to reality than your assumption of a value 100 times lower.


About the lockdown, I totally agree that it is tough for the whole population. However, if we let the virus run free, wouldn't it also be very tough as well? While Sweden admittedly seems to be doing well, others such as Brazil, India and also US are /were in dire situations. I'm not sure anyone can tell where the balance is.


Regarding my comparison between vaccination and drinking and driving, I think it's quite relevant. In both cases, your choice of what to take into your body might pose risks to others.
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  #24950  
Old Today, 00:00
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Re: Coronavirus

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......
Governments are in control of whether you vaccinate or not. Whatever happened to my body/my choice?.....
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Can I say the same thing about the law against drinking and driving?
No. Not comparable.
Drinking is free choice of what you insert.
Driving is something one can only do following the detailed laws in the traffic-law.

I also did not read terrifisch's post as Swiss related. She would be wrong with what's quoted above if she had as in Switzerland there are other laws which ensure personal choice for/against vaccine. They can not be overruled, not even by a covid-law.

I see no fault in each person having thoughts and taking their individual decision about the covid-vaccine (any actually). I'm no anti-vaxer but there are vaccine I have and keep updated and there are others I never took. Each of them deserves to be thought over and decided on.
There will be the social pressure of course (just watch EF applying it big time!!!) but succumbing to such pressure is never a healthy way to take any type of decision.
So which ever way each individual takes on this subject must be accredited.
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  #24951  
Old Today, 07:40
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Re: Coronavirus

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I think Damian raises some valid points. Why are goalposts shifting exactly? We started with lockdowns and masks/social distancing to ensure hospitals were not overwhelmed. The point was to CONTAIN the virus and now? Governments want to eradicate the virus?

Explain how that works since we have never been able to eradicate the flu?

So we will have to wear a mask and socially distance for ad Infinitum because of so-called "variants"? And yet this so-called "pandemic"/"endemic" has a fatality rate of .02% of the general populace but we need to live in fear?

And even if one is vaccinated, one still has to wear a mask? Really?? Why get a vaccine then if masks and social distancing are still warranted for whatever reason governments deem appropriate. Therein lies the caveat...

Governments are in control of whether you vaccinate or not. Whatever happened to my body/my choice?

This is beyond nuts/crazy!

The risk for most under the age of 80 being hospitalized and/or death is negligible unless one has a co-morbidity.

Frankly, I don't get it.

PS... I am not an anti-vaxer. I have had all of my inoculations and plan to get the J&J vaccine when I am back in the US in June - for travel reasons as opposed to health reasons.
Agree on every point. Nobody remembers any more what the goals were in the beginning.

I am not an anti-vaxxer either, but I am not getting the vaccine. I have the antibody level over the upper limit of normal, and there is no way I am forced to get vaccinated on top of being immuned. I will rather get tested for travel and just wait until all of this calms down.
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  #24952  
Old Today, 07:55
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Re: Coronavirus

I spoke to a few people recently who said that they will avoid taking the vaccine as long as possible. Their reasoning was that to most fit people Corona hardly does anything, so they don't see the point in taking it. Don't shoot the messenger!

My personal view is that Corona worshippers and Corona deniers are both batshit crazy
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  #24953  
Old Today, 08:40
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Re: Coronavirus

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My wife just found a huge lump under her armpit on the side she had her 2nd Moderna vaccine 15 days ago. Dr's Appointment booked for tomorrow.
Best wishes to your wife. How is she doing?
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  #24954  
Old Today, 08:47
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Re: Coronavirus

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Which governments want to eradicate the virus? Do you have a source?
what jumps in immediately:
Germany with 0-Covid
NZ locking down on single case
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  #24955  
Old Today, 08:52
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Re: Coronavirus

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Regarding my comparison between vaccination and drinking and driving, I think it's quite relevant. In both cases, your choice of what to take into your body might pose risks to others.
fatality rate of drunk driving much higher then of catching covid
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  #24956  
Old Today, 08:54
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Re: Coronavirus

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I have the antibody level over the upper limit of normal
btw, where I can do antibody tests with levels in reports around Zurich?
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  #24957  
Old Today, 09:17
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Re: Coronavirus

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btw, where I can do antibody tests with levels in reports around Zurich?
I don’t know.
Our company is organizing tests for employees. They tested everyone who wanted last summer, and now they follow up on those who tested positive or recovered from Covid.
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  #24958  
Old Today, 09:19
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Re: Coronavirus

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I think Damian raises some valid points. Why are goalposts shifting exactly? We started with lockdowns and masks/social distancing to ensure hospitals were not overwhelmed. The point was to CONTAIN the virus and now? Governments want to eradicate the virus?

Explain how that works since we have never been able to eradicate the flu?

So we will have to wear a mask and socially distance for ad Infinitum because of so-called "variants"? And yet this so-called "pandemic"/"endemic" has a fatality rate of .02% of the general populace but we need to live in fear?

And even if one is vaccinated, one still has to wear a mask? Really?? Why get a vaccine then if masks and social distancing are still warranted for whatever reason governments deem appropriate. Therein lies the caveat...

Governments are in control of whether you vaccinate or not. Whatever happened to my body/my choice?

This is beyond nuts/crazy!

The risk for most under the age of 80 being hospitalized and/or death is negligible unless one has a co-morbidity.

Frankly, I don't get it.

PS... I am not an anti-vaxer. I have had all of my inoculations and plan to get the J&J vaccine when I am back in the US in June - for travel reasons as opposed to health reasons.
Doesn't it make sense to try to first contain a Virus and invest the majoriy of 'ressources in that, and then when it's contained, invest in eradicating it?

Ofc you still have to wear a mask.
Other than medical reasons: Imagine the additional workload if for example a sales assistant at migros has to check wether a person without mask is vaccinated or not.

You can still decide wether or not to vaccinate. Still your body and your choice. Choices have consequences though.
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  #24959  
Old Today, 09:43
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Re: Coronavirus

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What happened in Seychelles? Indeed, other places with high vaccination rate see cases drop, WTF?
The Bloomberg item misses one important piece of information which is contained in this BBC article. Quote..:

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A third of the active cases involved people who had had two vaccine doses, the country's news agency said
So the incidence in the vaccinated population is some 50% lower than the unvaccinated thus roughly 50% effectiveness. About what I would expect from the Chinese vaccines, whatever they may claim.

Very good news from Israel about the Bîontech/Pfizer vaccine by the way - an Israeli study, effectively looking at the whoile population, has confirmed a 95% effectiveness for the vaccine after 2 doses.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...s-israel-study

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I did post some links in a very neutral way so that who ever whish can make his own decisions about it.

Now some of you guys , even you, want to start a fight with me about what is written in those articles, even I did not write them. I just pointed to them.
This is a forum. Part of it's very purpose is to DEBATE. No-one is "fighting" with you. But we are all free to take issue with what you post and debate that with you and everyone else.
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  #24960  
Old Today, 09:55
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Re: Coronavirus

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Hmm... your 2% figure I think is conflated as those who died with COVID as opposed to those who died from COVID.

And the long-term effects of lockdowns? Have you analyzed that? Tough to call since that will take time to assess... I sense that the long-term consequences on youth and the populace at large not good from a mental health and economic perspective.

As to your drinking/driving comment... Not sure how much relevance that has here. What about the abortion debate? Each woman is entitled to make her choice - her body/her choice. That to me is more relevant/applicable regarding the vaccine uptake.
It's lower than 2% of those infected (consensus is hardening at 0.5% to 0.7% but some of the newer variants seem to be increasing this, particularly impacting younger people). Your 0.02% of the global population is irrelevant on a number of grounds, particularly that only a fraction of the global population have been infected, also that there is massive undercounting (as there is very little testing) in most developing countries.

Overcounting of deaths (the with/of Covid thing) is minimal and certainly ourweighed by those dying from Covid after the usual 28 day cut-off. Also dying of Covid must include those dying of the consequences of Covid - heart attacks, strokes, etc.

On Vaccines, I take the view that it is our social obligation to get vaccinated to make sure we as a society protect those that are unable to get vaccinated or are immunocompromised and vaccines don't take. Plus even for younger people the risks of the vaccine are lower than the risks of Covid.
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