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  #25681  
Old 22.05.2021, 23:45
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Re: Coronavirus

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A couple of weeks ago in Bülach had to wait 20 minutes in the rain plus a policeman who kept telling us to stand closer together.
Not good! Did you bring this to someone's attention once inside?
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  #25682  
Old 23.05.2021, 00:53
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Re: Coronavirus

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In my opinion if you've already had Covid then there should be no reason to get the vaccine. Not even to travel (within the EU) as the EU has very sensibly said that they'll recognize evidence of people who have already had the Covid as a pass to travel.

Unfortunately tHe ScIeNcE of this epidemic has often largely chosen to ignore decades of understanding of immunity acquired through natural infection. Early studies already showing that natural immunity is more effective than vaccination for Covid too.

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1...670v1.full.pdf
And your opinion would be worth... what? Especially among the scientists whom you attempt to ridicule with comical random capitalisation. Weird.

In my opinion, you have absolutely no idea about this subject. In fact, you have nothing more than an opinion—an uninformed one, at that.
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  #25683  
Old 23.05.2021, 07:54
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Re: Coronavirus

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There's the problem. Still very muddy and far from conclusive.

Personally, and now that there are enough doses available for everybody (soon) so you don't keep someone else from getting the vaccine, I'd get two jabs just to be safe even with a prior infection. Especially with an infection that's more than 6 months since.
It's going to be a while before we have anything conclusive. This is because we're only just approaching a stage now where theses studies can be carried out comparing the efficacy of vaccination with natural infection. The first studies are already showing that natural immunity is very effective, the comparison study from Israel is state of the art and first of its kind mass comparison between natural immunity and vaccination.

We don't need for it to be conclusive though before making an informed decision. We're now approaching 170m million reported cases of Covid in the world now, if reinfection was a significant risk, and natural immunity not significant, we'd have heard about it by now.
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  #25684  
Old 23.05.2021, 08:07
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Re: Coronavirus

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And your opinion would be worth... what? Especially among the scientists whom you attempt to ridicule with comical random capitalisation. Weird.

In my opinion, you have absolutely no idea about this subject. In fact, you have nothing more than an opinion—an uninformed one, at that.
It's an internet forum, it is ONLY opinion that is written here you'd think as a moderator you'd realise that!

And I feel I have to write "in my opinion" to stop the likes of your colleague slapping me with infractions for "trolling" or spreading misinformation.

I've not ridiculed scientists (apart from Neil Ferguson, who's been proven to be completely wrong) rather people who blindly followed "the science" which changes like the wind. Or the drive to only accept the views of some scientists and dismiss and discredit others. An environment where eminent epidemiologists from prestigious universities are derided or censored by social media for questioning the Covid response.
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  #25685  
Old 23.05.2021, 11:22
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Re: Coronavirus

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Unfortunately tHe ScIeNcE of this epidemic has often largely chosen to ignore decades of understanding of immunity acquired through natural infection. Early studies already showing that natural immunity is more effective than vaccination for Covid too.

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1...670v1.full.pdf
That’s not exactly what they said in that article, they said they observed very similar results from both groups.
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  #25686  
Old 25.05.2021, 13:37
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Re: Coronavirus

Todays published numbers (fri, sat, sun & mon combined) 2770 out of 88 k tests

80 hospitalisations
13 death

https://www.20min.ch/story/das-ist-d...z-136662375229
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  #25687  
Old 25.05.2021, 13:42
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Re: Coronavirus

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That’s not exactly what they said in that article, they said they observed very similar results from both groups.
The numbers themselves show that natural infection is slightly more effective that the vaccine. Ultimately this doesn't really change the thrust of the argument that people who have already had Covid need to be vaccinated.
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  #25688  
Old 25.05.2021, 13:55
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Re: Coronavirus

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The numbers themselves show that natural infection is slightly more effective that the vaccine. Ultimately this doesn't really change the thrust of the argument that people who have already had Covid need to be vaccinated.
For me it comes down to basic choices.

If you have had the virus and therefore natural immunity, what are the chances of a serious (life threatening) second infection.

Versus

Chance of above plus vaccine.

If there is a significant difference (reduced risk) then I would take.
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  #25689  
Old 25.05.2021, 14:00
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Re: Coronavirus

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The numbers themselves show that natural infection is slightly more effective that the vaccine. Ultimately this doesn't really change the thrust of the argument that people who have already had Covid need to be vaccinated.

Just too bad for people who are in a risk group, with a risk of getting very very ill?

Thrust or trust?
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  #25690  
Old 25.05.2021, 14:05
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Re: Coronavirus

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Just too bad for people who are in a risk group, with a risk of getting very very ill?

Thrust or trust?
Thrust, I don't understand you point? I'm only referring to people who have already had Covid and recovered.

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Todays published numbers (fri, sat, sun & mon combined) 2770 out of 88 k tests

80 hospitalisations
13 death

https://www.20min.ch/story/das-ist-d...z-136662375229
These numbers are really good!
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  #25691  
Old 25.05.2021, 14:16
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Re: Coronavirus

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Just too bad for people who are in a risk group, with a risk of getting very very ill?
Aren't they vaxed already?
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  #25692  
Old 25.05.2021, 14:19
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Re: Coronavirus

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Aren't they vaxed already?

By now maybe. Although what is a risk group kept changing and a friend (diabetic) got infected and is still struggling.
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  #25693  
Old 25.05.2021, 14:25
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Re: Coronavirus

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The numbers themselves show that natural infection is slightly more effective that the vaccine. Ultimately this doesn't really change the thrust of the argument that people who have already had Covid need to be vaccinated.
I think the issue that you are failing to address is that immunity, via vaccine or infection, doesn't last forever. It also won't fall off a cliff and there will be a gradual decline in antibodies.

So if someone has had COVID 6 or 7 months ago then a vaccine could serve as a booster in order to maintain their immunity to the virus.
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  #25694  
Old 25.05.2021, 14:48
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Re: Coronavirus

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I think the issue that you are failing to address is that immunity, via vaccine or infection, doesn't last forever. It also won't fall off a cliff and there will be a gradual decline in antibodies.

So if someone has had COVID 6 or 7 months ago then a vaccine could serve as a booster in order to maintain their immunity to the virus.
Sure there will be a decline in antibodies, but what about T cell response? I posted a paper suggesting that natural immunity from Covid lasts at least a year.

I find it odd that previously infected people are being advised to get the vaccine with the reason given that "we don't know how long natural immunity lasts", whereas exactly the same is true for the vaccines.
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  #25695  
Old 25.05.2021, 14:51
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Re: Coronavirus

I was in a meeting with a guy 5 days ago, he tested positive for Covid. He has lost all sense of smell and taste plus feels very weak.

I feel normal, no fever, no loss of taste etc. I did a Covid home test, and it was negative. Shall I carry on as normal?
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  #25696  
Old 25.05.2021, 14:57
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Re: Coronavirus

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I was in a meeting with a guy 5 days ago, he tested positive for Covid. He has lost all sense of smell and taste plus feels very weak.

I feel normal, no fever, no loss of taste etc. I did a Covid home test, and it was negative. Shall I carry on as normal?
Read the BAG guidelines that tell you what to do if you have been in contact with an infected person?
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Old 25.05.2021, 15:19
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Re: Coronavirus

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So your friend proves that natural immunity isn't as effective as vaccination?

Here's another study on Covid natural immunity.

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1....19.21255720v2
For what it's worth, here is a real life example from my Dr., not a scientific study, so take it for what it is.

He said he's seeing immunity levels between 0-4 (not sure of units) in people with two doses of vaccine. Of the 300+ cases of Covid he's had, most have immunity of over 5, most between 5-10, and those with severe cases, over 15. In his experience, people who had the disease have much higher levels of immunity. And for what it's worth, of his 300+ covid patients, 3 died, they were 93, 99, and 100 years old.

I had a very severe reaction to first dose of vaccine (phizer). Post-poned second dose to be antibody tested. Lab tests came back with sky high immunity of 18 that my Dr says is in top 10% of all he's seen, thus, he confirms I've apparently had covid (didn't know it) and have much higher protection than most of the patients he's seen.
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Old 25.05.2021, 15:28
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Re: Coronavirus

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I had a very severe reaction to first dose of vaccine (phizer). Post-poned second dose to be antibody tested. Lab tests came back with sky high immunity of 18 that my Dr says is in top 10% of all he's seen, thus, he confirms I've apparently had covid (didn't know it) and have much higher protection than most of the patients he's seen.
Makes sense ... apparently there is a common strong reaction if you've had the virus already.
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  #25699  
Old 25.05.2021, 16:16
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Re: Coronavirus

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Sure there will be a decline in antibodies, but what about T cell response? I posted a paper suggesting that natural immunity from Covid lasts at least a year.

I find it odd that previously infected people are being advised to get the vaccine with the reason given that "we don't know how long natural immunity lasts", whereas exactly the same is true for the vaccines.
The short answer is that until there are more longer term studies for both natural immunity and vaccination immunity we simply don’t know.

There are also multiple factors involved, measuring antibody levels is not the most useful tool for measuring immunity. It depends on which type of antibodies are present and at what level amongst other things.

T cell response is probably more useful but that is not routinely tested and is more difficult to do than just testing for antibodies.
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  #25700  
Old 25.05.2021, 16:23
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Re: Coronavirus

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Read the BAG guidelines that tell you what to do if you have been in contact with an infected person?

Can you read it for me?


Based on reading it just now, I have decided to carry on as normal.
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