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  #25921  
Old 03.06.2021, 11:17
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Re: Coronavirus

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Of course, masks work when used correctly just like everything else we use in life needs to be correctly used; from knives to lifts.
i'd use condoms as a good example, but knives works as well
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  #25922  
Old 03.06.2021, 13:34
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Re: Coronavirus

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Of course, masks work when used correctly just like everything else we use in life needs to be correctly used; from knives to lifts.
Therein lies the problem - I was talking to a colleague (who is no fool) - he admitted that he'd been wearing the same surgical mask for over a week. Most people lack the organisational skills / motivation (the latter in his case) to apply the guidance correctly. He's not a covid denier or anything - getting the vaccination.

That mask is probably pretty saturated with water and god knows what else and quite possibly more of a danger than a help.

The question is how many of those people are there vs. people who do it properly. Another issue is that the mask hygiene observant are probably those who are less in need of a mask in the first place as they likely social distance better and have a higher vaccine uptake.

Its fair to say that the lack of large change in R following mask mandates (hard to spot small changes given everything else happening simultaneously) means they are probably droppable in c. August when we are all double vaccinated. Seems like a fair compromise between the mask believers and the skeptics.
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  #25923  
Old 03.06.2021, 13:39
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Re: Coronavirus

Todays published numbers 588 out of 31 k tests

10 (19*) hospitalisations
0 (1*) death

* Adjustment from previous days

https://www.20min.ch/story/das-ist-d...z-136662375229

Compared to last week thursday

992 out of 29 k tests

36 hospitalisations
9 death

Last edited by Sigh; 04.06.2021 at 13:32.
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  #25924  
Old 03.06.2021, 13:46
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Re: Coronavirus

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Todays published numbers 588 out of 31 k tests

19 hospitalisations
1 death

https://www.20min.ch/story/das-ist-d...z-136662375229

Compared to last week thursday

992 out of 29 k tests

36 hospitalisations
9 death
That's almost too good. Positivity not far off halved!
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  #25925  
Old 03.06.2021, 14:30
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Re: Coronavirus

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Therein lies the problem - I was talking to a colleague (who is no fool) - he admitted that he'd been wearing the same surgical mask for over a week. Most people lack the organisational skills / motivation (the latter in his case) to apply the guidance correctly. He's not a covid denier or anything - getting the vaccination.

That mask is probably pretty saturated with water and god knows what else and quite possibly more of a danger than a help.

The question is how many of those people are there vs. people who do it properly. Another issue is that the mask hygiene observant are probably those who are less in need of a mask in the first place as they likely social distance better and have a higher vaccine uptake.

Its fair to say that the lack of large change in R following mask mandates (hard to spot small changes given everything else happening simultaneously) means they are probably droppable in c. August when we are all double vaccinated. Seems like a fair compromise between the mask believers and the skeptics.
The regular daily fall in new Swiss cases is a contra indicator to your claim that "Most people lack...".

Studies like those by the US CDC, examples here and here, demonstrate the benefit of mask-wearing versus not.
From my links "Mandating masks was associated with a decrease in daily COVID-19 case and death growth rates within 20 days of implementation."

Of course, this is not as convincing as your plucking out and comparing headline numbers without any means to assess any of the other significant factors.
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  #25926  
Old 03.06.2021, 14:48
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Re: Coronavirus

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The regular daily fall in new Swiss cases is a contra indicator to your claim that "Most people lack...".

Studies like those by the US CDC, examples here and here, demonstrate the benefit of mask-wearing versus not.
From my links "Mandating masks was associated with a decrease in daily COVID-19 case and death growth rates within 20 days of implementation."

Of course, this is not as convincing as your plucking out and comparing headline numbers without any means to assess any of the other significant factors.
The changes in the last few weeks have not coincided with any mask rule changes. I'd say that is primarily a result of vaccine rollout.

I read one of those studies which discusses changes in cases within 20 days of a mask edict in a large number of US counties. The problem is that it doesn't seem to take into account that mask edicts tend to come as part of a package of general tightening and it is not straightforward to separate it from other measures. I'm not saying the study is not interesting but it certainly isn't definitive. You could correlate the UKs "sunbathing ban" with a drop in cases but correlation doesn't mean causation.

"plucking out and comparing headline numbers without any means to assess any of the other significant factors" (your words) is more or less what these studies are. The fact it associates outdoor dining with an increase in death rates should be a gigantic warning flag given it is universally acknowledged that outdoor infections are very rare.

I think it's best to keep a very open mind re: masks. What has been proven beyond reasonable doubt is that good masks worn well work. Other than that the data, at least for me, isn't there. My suspicion is that are slightly beneficial as opposed to strongly beneficial, neutral or harmful but I could be wrong.

So I'm not trying to argue they've been "pointless" - more that the data is extremely weak and that people shouldn't do anything with a mask that they wouldn't do without one.

Last edited by HickvonFrick; 03.06.2021 at 15:08.
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  #25927  
Old 03.06.2021, 15:32
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Re: Coronavirus

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It was funny, when we were in Rapperswil in Knie Zoo and everybody had to wear masks there and then we rode few bus stops to Juckerfarm and there were no masks around. Like the virus can be only spread in the zoo but not on the farm.

Some animals in Zoo caught corona and this could be the reason authorities want human beings to wear masks so that it is NOT transmitted to animals in Zoo.

If there were animals in farm, they should have had mask requirements too?
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  #25928  
Old 03.06.2021, 15:57
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Re: Coronavirus

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The changes in the last few weeks have not coincided with any mask rule changes. I'd say that is primarily a result of vaccine rollout.
I'm not sure about vaccine as the most active community members are not vaccinate even once yet. The number of deaths can be lowered due to vaccinated vulnerable persons indeed, but as for the cases... I think the weather contribution is higher so far than the vaccine.
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  #25929  
Old 03.06.2021, 16:03
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Re: Coronavirus

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I'm not sure about vaccine as the most active community members are not vaccinate even once yet. The number of deaths can be lowered due to vaccinated vulnerable persons indeed, but as for the cases... I think the weather contribution is higher so far than the vaccine.
Loads of middle aged and even younger people have had their first. At 32 my 2nd is next week.
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  #25930  
Old 03.06.2021, 17:30
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Re: Coronavirus

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Loads of middle aged and even younger people have had their first. At 32 my 2nd is next week.
As a young person, I had my second Moderna this morning.

Arm is getting sorer and I'm getting more tired, but so far not as bad as the first shot.
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  #25931  
Old 03.06.2021, 17:42
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Re: Coronavirus

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Loads of middle aged and even younger people have had their first. At 32 my 2nd is next week.
Indeed, we're a few weeks away from anyone who decides to get the vaccine already got the first dose.
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  #25932  
Old 03.06.2021, 18:06
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Re: Coronavirus

Howdi doodi Efers

My Wife, group M canton Bern, has been trying and trying. She still can't get a date for her first jab. All the sites, BAG, Appotekes and local doctors always say there are no jabs available! Even though the Sunday paper said CH is racing away with inoculations!

In the words of a famous fella.... I don't belive it!!!

Any advice would be extreemly welcome

'ave a Great Evening y'all

(and go and visit a Restaurant! (please))

GREG
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  #25933  
Old 03.06.2021, 18:11
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Re: Coronavirus

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Howdi doodi Efers

My Wife, group M canton Bern, has been trying and trying. She still can't get a date for her first jab. All the sites, BAG, Appotekes and local doctors always say there are no jabs available! Even though the Sunday paper said CH is racing away with inoculations!

In the words of a famous fella.... I don't belive it!!!

Any advice would be extreemly welcome

'ave a Great Evening y'all

(and go and visit a Restaurant! (please))

GREG
Tried the cantonal vaccination site? I registered for Aargau back in March. I got the first dose last Monday.
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  #25934  
Old 03.06.2021, 18:44
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Re: Coronavirus

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Loads of middle aged and even younger people have had their first. At 32 my 2nd is next week.
And much more have their first appointments for June-July or didn't make their appointments at all yet.

IMHO, the vaccinated ratio is too small to give the 20-30% decrease of the 7-days average every day. On the other hand, look at the last year numbers for June (can be even multiplied by 8 to get more realistic picture).
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  #25935  
Old 03.06.2021, 18:46
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Re: Coronavirus

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Any advice would be extreemly welcome
Did you try https://rimpfli.web.app/ ?
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  #25936  
Old 03.06.2021, 18:54
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Re: Coronavirus

Ta for replies. The Wife is registered with the cantonal site.

Second reply looks good, will try

Ta for All

Greg
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  #25937  
Old 03.06.2021, 20:44
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Re: Coronavirus

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Ta for replies. The Wife is registered with the cantonal site.

Second reply looks good, will try

Ta for All

Greg
Looks like the last first doses will be in July . She should get a date before too long. I only got the text 6 days before the appointment, so really it could come anytime in the next month if she is in the lowest priority group.
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  #25938  
Old 03.06.2021, 20:55
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Re: Coronavirus

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I'm not sure about vaccine as the most active community members are not vaccinate even once yet. The number of deaths can be lowered due to vaccinated vulnerable persons indeed, but as for the cases... I think the weather contribution is higher so far than the vaccine.
Probably a mix of these two factors, plus the reduced spread because of the measures we have had particularly for indoors stuff. I am convinced this drove down transmission significantly and once you are sustainably below R = 1 then you get negative exponentiality. Personally I think we have seen vaccine effect mostly on the hospital/death side because the elderly got protection. For the younger, the vast majority will have at best partial immunization.
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  #25939  
Old 04.06.2021, 08:53
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Re: Coronavirus

A new natural immunity study published in Lancet finds "The presence of IgG antibodies to nucleocapsid protein was associated with substantially reduced risk of reinfection in staff and residents for up to 10 months after primary infection."

Ten months is higher than previous studies have found. To be clear, this study does not claim natural immunity is better than vaccine-induced, vaccines have not been around for so long so there cannot be any long-term findings.

Mostly any reinfections were symptomatic but not clinically severe.

The study is not peer-reviewed.
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  #25940  
Old 04.06.2021, 09:58
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Re: Coronavirus

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Ta for replies. The Wife is registered with the cantonal site.

Second reply looks good, will try

Ta for All

Greg
Just keep trying, look at all of the available vaccination locations and regularly refresh the page. That worked for us.

Good luck!
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