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  #26841  
Old 01.07.2021, 09:19
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Re: Coronavirus

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Especially considering that the Delta variant has killed more people who are double vaxxed in the UK than those who are unvaccinated!

(See page 14 in the report below)

https://assets.publishing.service.go...riefing_17.pdf
From the BBC this morning. https://www.bbc.com/news/health-57610998
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Some people, including those pushing an anti-vaccine agenda online, have been claiming a large proportion of those dying with the Delta variant of coronavirus had been vaccinated.
One conspiracy site even claimed vaccinated people were dying at higher rates than those who had not received the jab, which is untrue.
This site and others use real figures in a misleading way, to arrive at a completely false conclusion - that the vaccine may not be working or even doing more harm than good.
The latest Public Health England (PHE) figures show there were 92,029 confirmed Delta cases between 1 February and 22 June.
Of these, 58% were in completely unvaccinated people and only 8% were fully vaccinated.
Tony, I don’t understand your agenda. Please stop posting untrue, or misleading, information. Thank you.
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  #26842  
Old 01.07.2021, 09:21
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Re: Coronavirus

I cannot find the data quickly, but as far as I remember about 98% of people older than certain age (70 or 80?) are vaccinated in UK. Some of them will be dying with covid because the protection from the vaccine in this age is not perfect.

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"Someone aged 80 who is fully vaccinated essentially takes on the risk of an unvaccinated person of around 50 ó much lower, but still not nothing, and so we can expect some deaths," the statisticians said.
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  #26843  
Old 01.07.2021, 09:31
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Re: Coronavirus

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Bleak in what sense? I judge that by the number of news cases, hospitalisations and ICU cases. It's very stable right now.
If there will be a new (mini-)wave people will want again to be vaccinated.
Weíre Iím the middle of the summer . Itís the time of year that viruses naturally donít spread as easily . This will in part explain why new cases are down so much all across most of the northern hemisphere , even in the countries that arenít vaccinating very well. Seeing the cover there vaccines give you apparently expires after 6 months , maybe people are saying letís wait until say October so the jab will see us through the entire winter ?
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  #26844  
Old 01.07.2021, 09:53
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Re: Coronavirus

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From the BBC this morning. https://www.bbc.com/news/health-57610998

Tony, I don’t understand your agenda. Please stop posting untrue, or misleading, information. Thank you.
It is a FACT that more fully vaccinated people have died from the Delta variant in the UK than unvaccinated people. Not mostly true, or kinda false, or truish. Certainly not false. TRUE. THIS IS A FACT!
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  #26845  
Old 01.07.2021, 09:57
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Re: Coronavirus

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It is a FACT that more fully vaccinated people have died from the Delta variant in the UK than unvaccinated people. Not mostly true, or kinda false, or truish. Certainly not false. TRUE. THIS IS A FACT!
The vaccines take a several weeks to reach their full potential after the second dose.

Many or most of those who had been vaccinated and then died after catching the delta variant had only recently been vaccinated.

THIS IS TRUE! THIS IS A FACT!

PRAISE THE LORD!
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  #26846  
Old 01.07.2021, 09:59
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Re: Coronavirus

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We’re I’m the middle of the summer . It’s the time of year that viruses naturally don’t spread as easily . This will in part explain why new cases are down so much all across most of the northern hemisphere , even in the countries that aren’t vaccinating very well. Seeing the cover there vaccines give you apparently expires after 6 months , maybe people are saying let’s wait until say October so the jab will see us through the entire winter ?
Probably, that too. The vaccination campaigns have started with much enthusiasm and we were in the first places in Europe for quite some time after the vaccines were approved and started being used, now folks are more hesitant (not in the least because the R number is somewhere around 0.2). The trend can reverse anytime. I don't see the issues as long as people follow the restrictions that are still in place.

It's funny that no-one says anything about Japan, which will host the Olympic Games soon and the vaccination rate is around 8%.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/olympic...-mark-n1272523
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  #26847  
Old 01.07.2021, 10:03
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Re: Coronavirus

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PRAISE THE LORD!
and statisticians

https://www.theguardian.com/theobser...een-vaccinated
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  #26848  
Old 01.07.2021, 10:11
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Re: Coronavirus

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I live in Switzerland. I know the clear benefits - I can protect myself, and more importantly, those at greater risk, from getting COVID and when enough people have been vaccinated, restrictions can be lifted.



Who's going to Police this?
But that's not going to convince the hesitant. Basically there needs to be a carrot of some description. Probably travel related.
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  #26849  
Old 01.07.2021, 10:12
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Re: Coronavirus

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It is a FACT that more fully vaccinated people have died from the Delta variant in the UK than unvaccinated people. Not mostly true, or kinda false, or truish. Certainly not false. TRUE. THIS IS A FACT!
That's because the vaccinated are much older and much more numerous.

Comparing the death rate of vaccinated and unvaccinated per capita, age adjusted would tell a very different story.
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  #26850  
Old 01.07.2021, 10:17
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Re: Coronavirus

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That's because the vaccinated are much older and much more numerous.

Comparing the death rate of vaccinated and unvaccinated per capita, age adjusted would tell a very different story.
No one has compared the death rate through. I was confirming what 3Wishes had suggested, that more vaccinated people had died of the Delta variant than unvaccinated.
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  #26851  
Old 01.07.2021, 10:34
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Re: Coronavirus

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But that's not going to convince the hesitant. Basically there needs to be a carrot of some description. Probably travel related.
Taking a right away from the many to restitute it to the few is not a carrot but a stick .

A carrot would be a week without income tax . Or no serafe for a year . Or unlimited free beer for a month at a pub of your choice . Or being allowed to jump the queue at airport security for a year . Or being allowed to punch Berset (with gloves and not too hard )

Somebody needs to start using their imagination .

How much is human life worth ?
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  #26852  
Old 01.07.2021, 10:43
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Re: Coronavirus

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Please stop posting untrue, or misleading, information. Thank you.
he posted a link to the whole document. you just need to look at it.

it's true that death figures are higher, but if you look at page 13, you see 50 out of 3'546 fully vaccinated >50 cases died. whereas 38 out of 976 unvaccinated >50 delta cases died.

the absolute numbers are higher, but as a proportion of cases only 1.4% of the vaccinated >50s died compared to 3.9% of the unvaccinated >50s.
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  #26853  
Old 01.07.2021, 10:47
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Re: Coronavirus

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.

the absolute numbers are higher, but as a proportion of cases only 1.4% of the vaccinated >50s died compared to 3.9% of the unvaccinated >50s.
That certainly shows the vaccine offers some level of protection .

But itís still far from the 95% decrease in mortality that is being suggested
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  #26854  
Old 01.07.2021, 10:47
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Re: Coronavirus

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he posted a link to the whole document. you just need to look at it.

it's true that death figures are higher, but if you look at page 13, you see 50 out of 3'546 fully vaccinated >50 cases died. whereas 38 out of 976 unvaccinated >50 delta cases died.

the absolute numbers are higher, but as a proportion of cases only 1.4% of the vaccinated >50s died compared to 3.9% of the unvaccinated >50s.
Thanks for that.

The devil is in the detail.

There are many factors involved and it is disingenuous to say more vaccinated have died of the delta variant than unvaccinated without taking other things into account.
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  #26855  
Old 01.07.2021, 10:54
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Re: Coronavirus

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The vaccines take a several weeks to reach their full potential after the second dose.

Many or most of those who had been vaccinated and then died after catching the delta variant had only recently been vaccinated.
Are you sure? No vaccinated persons under 50 died, and the older ones are mostly vaccinated long ago.
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  #26856  
Old 01.07.2021, 10:55
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Re: Coronavirus

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But that's not going to convince the hesitant. Basically there needs to be a carrot of some description. Probably travel related.
You cannot argue with an anti-vaxxer. If they believe in the sort of s**t that they do, how on earth are you going to change their mind with anything like facts?

So, yes, they need an incentive - like giving a child a sugar-coated pill.

How about a free lollipop after every vaccination?
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  #26857  
Old 01.07.2021, 10:55
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Re: Coronavirus

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the absolute numbers are higher, but as a proportion of cases only 1.4% of the vaccinated >50s died compared to 3.9% of the unvaccinated >50s.
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That certainly shows the vaccine offers some level of protection.

But itís still far from the 95% decrease in mortality that is being suggested
This is not really a rigorous analysis but simply put 1.4% of the vaccinated died so 98.6% did not die.
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  #26858  
Old 01.07.2021, 11:02
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Re: Coronavirus

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I did something that I have never done before in public. A guy sat next to me on he fainted


We live in such an amazing times. Can someone prove here that our civilisation hasn't reached the ....end ?

So can you imagine.. all up to now, previous generationis, our fathers,mothers,grandparents... Lived their lives, going around the world in times when hygiene was very poor comparing to now, without any nappies ,cloths on their mouths.. travelling to africa,asia, on a boat, for months, meeting typhus, diphtheria, all kinds of germs, viruses.. our grand-fathers were fighting in a war for months ,years living in a poor conditions, carrying their ill from tuberculosis friend, or many of them since many had tuberculosiss at teh time , they were coughing, spitting .. no one obstructed their breathing or vice versa nor farting was seen as a glorious brave move to save the humanity

Let's repeat: a person that's healthy no signs of illness like fever, coughing,... does not have a viral charge and then through sneezing ,coughing can release droplets, particles in the air that might be viral ...

In case, there is really an ill person, with a fever , high temperature they're probably not really apt to go around and travel or shop,snack,walk,run... since we know how that's almost impossible... And still we believe how they'll be sneezing and coughing , then in case they do, the particles will be spread(in spite of their cloth on the mouth) in the air and your cloth on your mouth/nose is not going to protect you.

Because, germs,viruses , arent going into your mouth and you're not getting infected by inhaling the virus. The way we get infections is through the clear, watery fluid called aqueous humor.
This is why any viral infection (common cold, flu like flu,flu) always starts with dry itchy eyes and as the infection progresses goes near the nose ,runny nose starts, then sore throat then might go down to the air lungs. When some doctors upset by the nonsense told by guys like Fauci , they confronted him about the ridiculous claim to wear a cloth on the mouth, he then , changed his discours and if you remember , he even made speeches of how wearing goggles is recommended (!) he went on to say how 2masks are needed (why not 3,4) while we are it, but if a grown up adult cant see how there's just so much of junk told to all of us then it's insane.

Tomorrow definitely people will start stabbing each other because the nappy fell of someone's mouth .
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  #26859  
Old 01.07.2021, 11:07
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Re: Coronavirus

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Are you sure? No vaccinated persons under 50 died, and the older ones are mostly vaccinated long ago.
Yes, of course. I heard it on a science programme on BBC Radio 4.
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  #26860  
Old 01.07.2021, 11:15
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Re: Coronavirus

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You cannot argue with an anti-vaxxer. If they believe in the sort of s**t that they do, how on earth are you going to change their mind with anything like facts?

So, yes, they need an incentive - like giving a child a sugar-coated pill.

How about a free lollipop after every vaccination?
The stick is always more effective than the carrot. How about requiring certificats at all shops, bars and restaurants. And give those medically unable to be vaccinated an equivalent certificate.
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