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Old 02.07.2021, 11:27
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Re: Coronavirus

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Pancakes, this is where we have to discuss, what's common sense? If you care about the meaning of the words you could've read how I evoked the nonsense of those who rule us, to have ALL big corp. businesses open, all supermarket chains, Mcdonaldsburgerkings open ...But, in order to save us so we dont die ,we had small shops shut down, pubs restaurants,GYM.. closed but you can stay in line at the walmart,migros,etc. such an insult to our intelligence.
Are you living in Switzerland?

My favorite Italian immigrants in Aargau made and sold pizza non-stop during the whole pandemic. The kebap place next to the Italians and a small Turkish shop where I buy cheap stuff were open the whole time. A local farm where I buy legumes and eggs even got more customers during the soft lockdown. During the pandemic, we were already in Valais, Neuchâtel and Aargau at the winemakers' to drink and buy wine. Don't know where you live, but around here the small local breweries just installed a TV and it's a nice place to watch football and drink freshly brewed beer.

So, all this insult to intelligence is first hand experience in CH or stuff read on the internet?
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  #26962  
Old 02.07.2021, 11:40
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Re: Coronavirus

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Dangerous how?
spaceghost, I really need to re-explain ?

Perhaps you should try to explain it yourself , try first the simplest explanation.

Humans aren't designed to obstruct their vital function like breathing .

If they do, then let's look at what is really happening.

Once you cover your mouth-Nose with a cloth or breathable plastic, what happens is the air you exhale is warm and air that's a degree lower holds less moisture than warm air . Your warm breath has too much of water in contact with the air around you so it condenses on whatever surface you breathe on - in particular in a face mask . (or remember how in winter when you have your scarff across the face , it gets soaked only after 2-3 breaths?)

What happens is, humans breathe in between 100k and 1 Million microorganisms belonging to over 1000 different types a day, and at least 725 species of them constantly present in the air around us.

Then, on average, humans breathe in 11 cubic m of air daily, or 11,000 litres.
Depending on the environment they are in, the air they breathe could contain 50,000 organism cells in the tropics during the day.

What's happening is: you're creating a microclimate for development of bacteria, fungus , bacillus . What's strikes me the most is the fact how the tissue gets wet after couple of minutes and air does not passes through wet tissue (very little) and we're consciously breathing in polluted air . Add to that the presence of all the bacteria and pathogens, no wonder we have new illnesses on the way .

In the media they talk about MAKNE , in a cute sweet way , like "oh dermatologists are reporting how people have acne and different skin irritations from wearing a mask" "but dont worry ,just wash your face regularly and it'll be ok"

ps . And in case you didnt notice, no, the cloth, the mask in no way will protect you from getting the airborne virus .
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  #26963  
Old 02.07.2021, 11:46
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Re: Coronavirus

Axa, in basel bars&restaurants were closed and McD Burgerking were open . End of story.

What's funny is how sometimes, you can talk with people and you say " oh in bread they put too much of sugar and salt" and the other person is saying "oh I dont care. I never eat bread." you see? it's not because you saw a kebab shop open that my argument is invalid, I can take as an example Sweden or Bhutan .
  #26964  
Old 02.07.2021, 12:01
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Re: Coronavirus

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Standard masks (cloth and surgical) don't work, as this preprint study shows. Masks mandates have been the biggest waste of time of this entire pandemic.

Covid: Masks upgrade cuts infection risk, research finds

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-57636360
Clutching at straws again?
I am sure this study of 53 people is very significant.

Nowhere in the study does it claim "Standard masks (cloth and surgical) don't work" as you claim.
It simply states "FFP2/N95 or FFP3 respirators, may prove beneficial".
  #26965  
Old 02.07.2021, 12:14
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Re: Coronavirus

Hilarious. I bet every one here discussing masks for the 1000th time has spent 100x more time writing about masks than actually wearing one.

Now let's talk kebap in Bhutan or whatever FD wants to come up with next.
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  #26966  
Old 02.07.2021, 12:18
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Re: Coronavirus

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Axa, in basel bars&restaurants were closed and McD Burgerking were open . End of story.

What's funny is how sometimes, you can talk with people and you say " oh in bread they put too much of sugar and salt" and the other person is saying "oh I dont care. I never eat bread." you see? it's not because you saw a kebab shop open that my argument is invalid, I can take as an example Sweden or Bhutan .
Terraces are open since April 19th, 11 weeks ago. Are you still stuck in the past?

Also, never traveled to other country during the pandemic where restrictions were ever more lax than Switzerland? Or stricter than Switzerland?
  #26967  
Old 02.07.2021, 12:29
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Re: Coronavirus

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Are you living in Switzerland?

My favorite Italian immigrants in Aargau made and sold pizza non-stop during the whole pandemic. The kebap place next to the Italians and a small Turkish shop where I buy cheap stuff were open the whole time. A local farm where I buy legumes and eggs even got more customers during the soft lockdown. During the pandemic, we were already in Valais, Neuchâtel and Aargau at the winemakers' to drink and buy wine. Don't know where you live, but around here the small local breweries just installed a TV and it's a nice place to watch football and drink freshly brewed beer.

So, all this insult to intelligence is first hand experience in CH or stuff read on the internet?
But FD tells us there is a Walmart in Switzerland
  #26968  
Old 02.07.2021, 12:36
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Re: Coronavirus

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Pancakes, this is where we have to discuss, what's common sense? If you care about the meaning of the words you could've read how I evoked the nonsense of those who rule us, to have ALL big corp. businesses open, all supermarket chains, Mcdonaldsburgerkings open ...But, in order to save us so we dont die ,we had small shops shut down, pubs restaurants,GYM.. closed but you can stay in line at the walmart,migros,etc. such an insult to our intelligence.

I do not like masks ? "there is a reason dr wears a mask during surgery" ?

If you respect and believe science then you should learn more about this and apply the common sense .

Surgeons wear for other reasons than "spreading viruses" . I'll explain.
When surgeons and med.staff enter the operating room, they're entering totally sterile area , ventilated , with a minimum of 20 total air exchanges per hour and a minimum of 4 exchanges of outdoor air per hour in operating rooms. With a constant temperature of 20-23C in case it's an open heart surgery it might go down to 17C.

Just before the surgeon enters, his head is covered and isnt touching the masks usually someone sticks it to him/her. (even with gloves he's not touching it)

Once in the operating theatre the surgeon is not having any physical activity , is not even talking and the reason for wearing the surgical mask and medical spectacles is because is because they're making a laceration and an open wound. If saliva, fluids enter the wound this is dangerous and is to be avoided, as well as the doctor receiving tiny projections in his face/eyes while operating .

Once the surgery is over, until mid 2020 , that same surgeon and nurses will enter the patient's room without a mask and the patient without mask and they would talk and communicate as normal human beings that breathe in - fresh air.

Can you see the science behind the surgical mask ? It is used only in those specific conditions and once out of the operating room , it's totally useless and even dangerous .

It's up to you to explain, that fast food science how I'm wearing a surgical mask and I have the respiratory virus, I'm coughing and yayyy virus gets trapped in the cloth but - stays on my lips and I continue having it I guess it goes back where it came from ??


I swear this mask fetish would've never worked if there were no shows like Grays anatomy, ER ,dr House, .. where they of course wear masks during the operation

So people here after shopping at Aldi, hopping on a bus , going home taking the mask off did feel I am certain, how they had all day "operations" , feeling like Clooney and such. saving lives of course , thinking "oh I'm like a surgeon , uhhh it's hard but if the surgeon can do it , I CAN DO it too"
"We recently spoke to several Yale Medicine doctors about the medical reasons why they wear masks. They are protective on several levels, explains Manisha Juthani, MD, an infectious disease specialist. “It is really important for me to wear a mask when I'm taking care of patients who have a respiratory virus that I could be at risk of getting and then potentially giving to somebody else.” In fact, the only way she can treat patients with different infectious diseases is by wearing a medical-grade mask so she does not spread any disease or get sick herself.

David Mulligan, MD, chief of transplant surgery and immunology, knows the importance of masks even beyond the operating room. “When we make rounds, for example, on significantly immuno-compromised patients, we will have a mask on to try to help protect those patients from the spread of disease and to try to protect other patients from bringing potential pathogens like bacteria and viruses from one room to the next,” he says."

Source:
Why Doctors Wear Masks
https://www.yalemedicine.org/news/wh...ors-wear-masks


"Surgeons wear surgical masks to shield the patients from droplet transmissions, infections, and contamination. These also protect the sterile environment of the operating room including all of the professionals who work there routinely."

Source:
Why Do Surgeons Wear Masks?
https://www.surgery.com.au/why-do-surgeons-wear-masks/

----
I'm done with this conversation.
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  #26969  
Old 02.07.2021, 12:42
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Re: Coronavirus

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But FD tells us there is a Walmart in Switzerland
I guess the guy is still scared to go outside and have not noticed that people moved on and are carrying on with their lives.

About moving on, which sane person cares more about what happened 3 months ago than profiting the most of oncoming vacations?
  #26970  
Old 02.07.2021, 12:54
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Re: Coronavirus

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But FD tells us there is a Walmart in Switzerland
Where? I need to buy some vitamins in bulk, please let me know.
  #26971  
Old 02.07.2021, 12:58
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Re: Coronavirus

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So maybe, if the richest perosn on the planet (him and few others) would STOP interfering, financing, forcing, ... needs, shaping our reality and future, perhaps then , maybe, us, those bad people would stop with their horrible nasty assumptions and imagination ?
i'm not that surprised, taking in account how windows os becomes dominate at the time when he was in charge of MS
didn't work with windows, may be will work with pandemics
  #26972  
Old 02.07.2021, 13:06
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Re: Coronavirus

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Playing sport is healthy. Watching other people play sport is not.
Details
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  #26973  
Old 02.07.2021, 13:31
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Re: Coronavirus

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Axa, in basel bars&restaurants were closed and McD Burgerking were open . End of story.
That was their choice.
All of them had to abide by the same rules.
They were allowed to open for takeaways, if the chose not to that was their choice.
Same for small shops etc. The big stores like Migros et al could only sell the allowed items, other things were blocked off. Small independent stores selling the allowed items were free to open as well should they choose to do so.

I’m not sure what point you’re trying to make by making up conspiracies that don’t exist.
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Old 02.07.2021, 13:42
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Re: Coronavirus

Todays published numbers 158 out of 30 k tests

7 hospitalisations
2 dearh

https://www.20min.ch/story/das-ist-d...z-136662375229

Compared to last week friday 109 out of 24 k tests

5 hospitalisations
2 death
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Old 02.07.2021, 13:43
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Re: Coronavirus

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spaceghost, I really need to re-explain ?

Perhaps you should try to explain it yourself , try first the simplest explanation.

Humans aren't designed to obstruct their vital function like breathing .

If they do, then let's look at what is really happening.

Once you cover your mouth-Nose with a cloth or breathable plastic, what happens is the air you exhale is warm and air that's a degree lower holds less moisture than warm air . Your warm breath has too much of water in contact with the air around you so it condenses on whatever surface you breathe on - in particular in a face mask . (or remember how in winter when you have your scarff across the face , it gets soaked only after 2-3 breaths?)

What happens is, humans breathe in between 100k and 1 Million microorganisms belonging to over 1000 different types a day, and at least 725 species of them constantly present in the air around us.

Then, on average, humans breathe in 11 cubic m of air daily, or 11,000 litres.
Depending on the environment they are in, the air they breathe could contain 50,000 organism cells in the tropics during the day.

What's happening is: you're creating a microclimate for development of bacteria, fungus , bacillus . What's strikes me the most is the fact how the tissue gets wet after couple of minutes and air does not passes through wet tissue (very little) and we're consciously breathing in polluted air . Add to that the presence of all the bacteria and pathogens, no wonder we have new illnesses on the way .

In the media they talk about MAKNE , in a cute sweet way , like "oh dermatologists are reporting how people have acne and different skin irritations from wearing a mask" "but dont worry ,just wash your face regularly and it'll be ok"

ps . And in case you didnt notice, no, the cloth, the mask in no way will protect you from getting the airborne virus .
It could be even worse. A friend of mine made her own face mask out of neoprene. She did it because she wanted to be 100% sure that she wouldn't breath in any dangerous particles. When she wore it for only 10 minutes, she nearly died because couldn't breathe at all. Can you believe that? And still people say masks are safe.
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  #26976  
Old 02.07.2021, 13:52
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Re: Coronavirus

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That was their choice.
All of them had to abide by the same rules.
They were allowed to open for takeaways, if the chose not to that was their choice.
Same for small shops etc. The big stores like Migros et al could only sell the allowed items, other things were blocked off. Small independent stores selling the allowed items were free to open as well should they choose to do so.

I’m not sure what point you’re trying to make by making up conspiracies that don’t exist.
I guess you could arrive to FairDinkum's opinion if you're an immigrant ignorant of local language and scared to go to local owner-operated stores and buy from them.
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Old 02.07.2021, 14:13
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Re: Coronavirus

Pancake, it's a one thing if you just refuse to think, analyse , weigh pro and contra or just blindly but safely head into the direction where you just want to go. And another , if you're here to exchange and go a bit deeper into the matter.

You are not even reading properly my comment, you only see what you consider the main thing and you "read" not to understand but to reply and prove wrong .

Because if you did, you'd notice how I specifically explained about the masks are designed and supposed to be used in sterile conditions in operating rooms ,not walking around the city, office/shop/bus... For the simple reason because since march 2020 we've been having this "new covid science" I did specify "prior to 2020" .

No mask can protect you from catching the virus if it's in the air, same as, the mask won't 'block' 'keep' the virus within the cloth . You can film yourself in winter and see it for yourself, how while you only inhale-exhale the hot air comes out of the mask . Or take a smoke out of a cigarette and release it and see.

And iff you are ill and you have the virus , once you cough or sneeze you expel air (those dropplets), at the speed of 50km/h and it can go up to 100km/h .

So how can someone belive how they're protecting someone or being protected is the mystery of this decade . It's totally insane and this is why you have so many scientists and doctors specialists explaining this and asking the governments to end with this masquerade

For the really curious I can even be generous and drop some interesting information, of how there were so many studies that found masks useless or dangerous even for surgeons and operations. (I'm pro-mask when it comes to that but science not always)

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/2766345/
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/1853618/
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/9771168/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4480558/

https://www.ijic.info/article/download/10788/7862/

https://postimg.cc/67WJkbdC

I have assembled a little summary to explain what's in the above links:

-Figueiredo et al., in 2001, reported that in five years of doing peritoneal dialysis without masks, rates of peritonitis in their unit were no different than rates in hospitals where masks were worn.
--Bahli did a systematic literature review in 2009 and found that 'no significant difference in the incidence of postoperative wound infection was observed between masks groups and groups operated with no masks.'
-Surgeons at the Karolinska Institute in Sweden, recognizing the lack of evidence supporting the use of masks, ceased requiring them in 2010 for anesthesiologists and other non-scrubbed personnel in the operating room. 'Our decision to no longer require routine surgical masks for personnel not scrubbed for surgery is a departure from common practice. But the evidence to support this practice does not exist,' wrote Dr. Eva Sellden

The point of this? I'm not claiming anything I only want to point out how things arent monochrome and one-way road, as many have auto-conditioned themselves to believe that's the correct way.
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  #26978  
Old 02.07.2021, 14:16
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Re: Coronavirus

In other news, seatbelts are shown to be uncomfortable and only required in a tiny minority of cases.
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Old 02.07.2021, 14:23
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Re: Coronavirus

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It could be even worse. A friend of mine made her own face mask out of neoprene. She did it because she wanted to be 100% sure that she wouldn't breath in any dangerous particles. When she wore it for only 10 minutes, she nearly died because couldn't breathe at all. Can you believe that? And still people say masks are safe.
Are you sure she did not accidentally swallow it?

That said I had a respirator, 3D printed, with a super tight silk (or something) changeable filter. It was almost like neoprene But I am alive!
  #26980  
Old 02.07.2021, 14:25
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Re: Coronavirus

Ato, I did not make those scientific papers I'm only evoking them . It's "science baby"

In order to help you and pancake out a bit to see the big picture

Please wear a mask when you're entering the operating room and you'll be performing a surgery .. Wear a seatbelt when driving your car.

But, no need to wear that seatbelt when you're standing in line at Aldi , or when you're washing dishes or jogging etc..

Wear it only when it serves its purpose . The seatbelt hasnt been designed to protect you when you're eating a dinner at a restaurant as well as the mask - has not been designed for you to wear it around so it protects you from an infection or you're protecting someone. (it's even written on a every single box , stated by teh manufacturer how ,does not protect against viruses) .
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