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Old 14.07.2021, 22:38
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Re: Coronavirus

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Honestly not a good enough reason to reimpose restrictions (especially given kids over 12 can get the vaccine).

Restrictions must be for emergency situations. This isn't an emergency anymore. There is a risk of extensive mission creep.
Not yet. 12+ can register here from this week on with first vaccinations from the week after next, I think.

Also I am not talking "restrictions", I just don't think a hard wave would be desirable. So I think testing in schools should continue, vaxxing children and youth should be considered, and maybe you keep wearing your mask a bit longer on train and in shops, and wfh reco stays.
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  #27302  
Old 14.07.2021, 22:48
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Re: Coronavirus

If we are going to get another bad wave (and I suspect that we will), I hope it can at least hold off until after August, when most people are finished with their summer vacations. I find that unlikely, though. I read earlier that about half of the recent new cases in CH are due to people who were traveling for holiday (especially from Spain and Portugal, it said). I guess they know this due to contact tracing (according to the article). So I have a feeling that we're going to be seeing some really sharp increases in the # of new cases next month, while so many people are travelling while kids are on summer break.

I can only hope that I'm wrong.
  #27303  
Old 15.07.2021, 07:48
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Re: Coronavirus

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In France, as of Aug. 1, anyone without a “health pass” showing they have been vaccinated or recently tested negative will not be admitted to restaurants, cafes or movie theaters, and they will not be able to travel long distances by train, Mr. Macron said.
(from NYT paywall).

Apparently this announcement has resulted in an upsurge in vaccinations in France and, apparently, in Geneva as well.

I just hope the seven gnomes have the guts to follow.
  #27304  
Old 15.07.2021, 07:54
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Re: Coronavirus

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(from NYT paywall).

Apparently this announcement has resulted in an upsurge in vaccinations in France and, apparently, in Geneva as well.

I just hope the seven gnomes have the guts to follow.
It has also resulted in mass protests in Paris yesterday and the re-emergence of the Gilet Jaune.
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Old 15.07.2021, 07:56
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Re: Coronavirus

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Apparently this announcement has resulted in an upsurge in vaccinations in France and, apparently, in Geneva as well.

I just hope the seven gnomes have the guts to follow.
Much as I would like more people to be vaccinated and we reach herd immunity more quickly I really hope they don’t do that here.
Effectively forcing people to get the vaccine isn’t the right way to go about it in my opinion.

Last edited by Belgianmum; 15.07.2021 at 08:12.
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  #27306  
Old 15.07.2021, 08:09
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Re: Coronavirus

Yes numbers are increasing everywhere in Europe right now, but how are the hospital numbers? Do we have a good picture on that?

We know you can still get the virus while vaccinated, but it is supposed to be much less dangerous correct? No further restrictions should be in place unless hospital numbers are going up significantly too.

I’m all for what France is doing with making vaccines close to mandatory ... there are way too many stupid people in this world who screw things up for the rest of us.
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  #27307  
Old 15.07.2021, 09:06
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Re: Coronavirus

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Much as I would like more people to be vaccinated and we reach herd immunity more quickly I really hope they don’t do that here.
Effectively forcing people to get the vaccine isn’t the right way to go about it in my opinion.
I'm significantly more scared of big government than of Covid or people too thick to get the vaccine. France should be our model to avoid, not copy.

Vaccine certificates are inevitable for international travel but really should not be used domestically. I could perhaps accept nightclubs on a limited short term basis given that they are objectively very risky, but nothing else. Ultimately if you've been vaccinated statistically you have very little to worry about so there's no need to impose measures on others.

Last edited by HickvonFrick; 15.07.2021 at 09:20.
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Old 15.07.2021, 09:55
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Re: Coronavirus

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I'm significantly more scared of big government than of Covid or people too thick to get the vaccine. France should be our model to avoid, not copy.

Vaccine certificates are inevitable for international travel but really should not be used domestically. I could perhaps accept nightclubs on a limited short term basis given that they are objectively very risky, but nothing else. Ultimately if you've been vaccinated statistically you have very little to worry about so there's no need to impose measures on others.
What specifically are you afraid of? To me, the government should be there for exactly these kind of situations - to protect those who cannot protect themselves.

Personal health isn't the only thing a vaccinated individual should be concerned with - true, I am much more relaxed now that I'm vaxxed, but there are other effects an unnecessarily prolonged pandemic will have on all of our lives.

I think too many opponents of mandatory vaccination imagine the gestapo invading homes and dragging people to vaccination centers where they will also be fitted with trackers to make sure they aren't up to any more trouble in the future. And that once we give the government "control over our bodies" they will then start openly conducting numerous medical experiments on us forever.
  #27309  
Old 15.07.2021, 10:02
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Re: Coronavirus

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Much as I would like more people to be vaccinated and we reach herd immunity more quickly I really hope they don’t do that here.
Effectively forcing people to get the vaccine isn’t the right way to go about it in my opinion.
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Not yet. 12+ can register here from this week on with first vaccinations from the week after next, I think.

Also I am not talking "restrictions", I just don't think a hard wave would be desirable. So I think testing in schools should continue, vaxxing children and youth should be considered, and maybe you keep wearing your mask a bit longer on train and in shops, and wfh reco stays.
I agree with vaccination of children, masks I can tolerate. Personally I wouldn't I wouldn't test kids in school.

A hard wave or compulsory vaccination is the only way to herd immunity. I think that's pretty much an accepted fact.
  #27310  
Old 15.07.2021, 10:06
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Re: Coronavirus

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What specifically are you afraid of? To me, the government should be there for exactly these kind of situations - to protect those who cannot protect themselves.

Personal health isn't the only thing a vaccinated individual should be concerned with - true, I am much more relaxed now that I'm vaxxed, but there are other effects an unnecessarily prolonged pandemic will have on all of our lives.

I think too many opponents of mandatory vaccination imagine the gestapo invading homes and dragging people to vaccination centers where they will also be fitted with trackers to make sure they aren't up to any more trouble in the future. And that once we give the government "control over our bodies" they will then start openly conducting numerous medical experiments on us forever.
I'm afraid of government beginning to think it knows best and that it is better placed to make decisions for me than I am.

When you look at what's gone on back home I think that fear is very justified.

I have always and will always vote for the "smallest government" party. Not just on pandemic issues. Here it's be the FDP.

There are elements of excessive central control even in Switzerland I dislike. A small one that nevertheless upsets me: not being able to manage my own retirement funds.
  #27311  
Old 15.07.2021, 10:07
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Re: Coronavirus

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A hard wave or compulsory vaccination is the only way to herd immunity.
I think a hard wave is the way to go, once everybody over 35 has had the option to be vaccinated.
  #27312  
Old 15.07.2021, 10:08
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Re: Coronavirus

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(from NYT paywall).

Apparently this announcement has resulted in an upsurge in vaccinations in France and, apparently, in Geneva as well.

I just hope the seven gnomes have the guts to follow.
I would think that if you are a high tax country and you ban large swathes of the population from using public transport, libraries, and other tax funded or tax supported services, then you might also have the decency to cut their tax bill accordingly.

Good thing for Macron there is no election coming up ... oh wait.
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  #27313  
Old 15.07.2021, 10:08
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Re: Coronavirus

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Ultimately if you've been vaccinated statistically you have very little to worry about so there's no need to impose measures on others.
No, you just dont get it.
I am vaccinated but there is still a chance of going down (small chance) with bad (even smaller chance) of covid.
The more unvaccinated people around, the greater the level of Covid in the population and the greater the chance of everyone ( including those more vulnerable than me) getting ill.
The risks from the vaccination are minimal compared to the risks of Covid.
It is in everyones self-interest to get vaccinated and in the common interest.
I do not care if you make the wrong decisions about your own body but I do care if you endanger mine.
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  #27314  
Old 15.07.2021, 10:12
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Re: Coronavirus

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I think a hard wave is the way to go, once everybody over 35 has had the option to be vaccinated.
Fine for all you people over 35!

I think it should be 31 and over, my brother would prefer 26 and over...
  #27315  
Old 15.07.2021, 10:12
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Re: Coronavirus

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I think a hard wave is the way to go, once everybody over 35 has had the option to be vaccinated.
Everyone over 18 has had the chance to be double vaccinated within a couple of weeks now.
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  #27316  
Old 15.07.2021, 10:15
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Re: Coronavirus

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No, you just dont get it.
I am vaccinated but there is still a chance of going down (small chance) with bad (even smaller chance) of covid.
The more unvaccinated people around, the greater the level of Covid in the population and the greater the chance of everyone ( including those more vulnerable than me) getting ill.
The risks from the vaccination are minimal compared to the risks of Covid.
It is in everyones self-interest to get vaccinated and in the common interest.
I do not care if you make the wrong decisions about your own body but I do care if you endanger mine.
Agree, the other bigger risk from unvaccinated people is that they are all variant factories. The more unvaccinated people there are then the higher the risk of deadlier variants.
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  #27317  
Old 15.07.2021, 10:15
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Re: Coronavirus

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No, you just dont get it.
I am vaccinated but there is still a chance of going down (small chance) with bad (even smaller chance) of covid.
The more unvaccinated people around, the greater the level of Covid in the population and the greater the chance of everyone ( including those more vulnerable than me) getting ill.
The risks from the vaccination are minimal compared to the risks of Covid.
It is in everyones self-interest to get vaccinated and in the common interest.
I do not care if you make the wrong decisions about your own body but I do care if you endanger mine.
I'm not interested in unjustified fears of extremely unlikely events. One can hide under ones bed if one likes. Yes you are very marginally endagered from covid by unvaccinated people, but your death rate as a vaccinated person is far less than the death rate from influenza in flu season, or from a huge range of everyday activities. Certainly, the risk to you is not worth putting significant restrictions on society.

I have been fully vaccinated and have been for weeks now. I agree it is the right decision, but I also believe in other people's freedoms to make their own decisions and live with the consequences.

The one bone I'll throw you lot is I am quite open to charging for Covid treatment to the unvaccinated.

Last edited by HickvonFrick; 15.07.2021 at 10:39.
  #27318  
Old 15.07.2021, 10:15
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Re: Coronavirus

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What specifically are you afraid of? To me, the government should be there for exactly these kind of situations - to protect those who cannot protect themselves.
And who will protect those who cannot protect themselves from bullying by the government?

The government is already on the back foot in many situations, bemoaning that it is losing the trust of the common man. I wonder if another round of authoritarian measures will improve that.
  #27319  
Old 15.07.2021, 10:16
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Re: Coronavirus

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The one bone I'll throw you lot is I am quite open to charging for Covid treatment to the unvaccinated.
Only if my health insurance is reduced accordingly.

Why should I pay twice?
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Old 15.07.2021, 10:17
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Re: Coronavirus

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And who will protect those who cannot protect themselves from bullying by the government?

The government is already on the back foot in many situations, bemoaning that it is losing the trust of the common man. I wonder if another round of authoritarian measures will improve that.
Protection? Every adult has a vote.
 

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