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  #27361  
Old 15.07.2021, 15:50
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Re: Coronavirus

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I still believe folks should be informed/educated/convinced/stimulated and not forced.
And that is what France is doing, I am in full support of other countries following suit.

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Some (medical) decisions should be personal.
We are not asking that people get a vasectomy or a black boxed medication here - we are asking them to take a safe shot that will at worst give them flu like symptoms for 24 hours to stop a deadly world wide pandemic that has held the planet hostage for 2 years now.
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  #27362  
Old 15.07.2021, 15:51
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Re: Coronavirus

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Didn't they remove free tests? I thought this was part of the "mandatory" nature of it with it being prohibitively expensive to not be vaccinated.
I think they removed free PCR tests. Not sure what about antigen tests.
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  #27363  
Old 15.07.2021, 15:53
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Re: Coronavirus

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Every law creates a two-tier society, there are the law abiding and then there are the criminals.
Typically criminals, by the time the law recognizes them as such, have been tried before a court and found guilty.

In the case of taking civil rights away from people who, for whatever reason, are not vaccinated, that is discrimination.
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  #27364  
Old 15.07.2021, 15:56
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Re: Coronavirus

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For goodness sakes, vaccinations have been saving us from these kind of diseases and viruses for decades now.

I have asthma and was able to get the vaccination quite early due to my risk category.
You were vaccinated against asthma?
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  #27365  
Old 15.07.2021, 15:57
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Re: Coronavirus

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I think they removed free PCR tests. Not sure what about antigen tests.
Fun fact: They send you the result of the PCR test by email as an editable pdf.

I'm not saying anything but I'm just saying.
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  #27366  
Old 15.07.2021, 15:58
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Re: Coronavirus

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we are asking them to take a safe shot that will at worst give them flu like symptoms for 24 hours to stop a deadly world wide pandemic that has held the planet hostage for 2 years now.
We don't know what the long-term consequences of the vaccines are as they are new, only have emergenc approvals and are using a new technology.

Note that I'm not anti-vax. I also want to stop this pandemic.
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  #27367  
Old 15.07.2021, 16:01
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Re: Coronavirus

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Note that I'm not anti-vax. I also want to stop this pandemic.
Same here.
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  #27368  
Old 15.07.2021, 16:01
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Re: Coronavirus

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You were vaccinated against asthma?
Please learn to get past your ever present need to be combative and actually read comprehensively.
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  #27369  
Old 15.07.2021, 16:05
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Re: Coronavirus

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Me too, but I'm not sure about the personnel of the old people homes. I think those poor old people deserve to be taken care of by the vaccinated caregivers.
In an ideal world those caregivers should quit their jobs if they don't see the necessity of these vaccines in their profession, and should be able to immediately find something else (other jobs) that doesn't expose them to vulnerable groups.

So I guess there will be situations such as this where govs will be forced to impose vaccination. But again, if you don't like it you can quit your job, you have an alternative (theoretically).
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  #27370  
Old 15.07.2021, 16:10
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Re: Coronavirus

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Which vaccines are unsafe?
Can a vaccine be unsafe?

And if they can't, why even bother to test them?
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Old 15.07.2021, 16:20
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Re: Coronavirus

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I think they removed free PCR tests. Not sure what about antigen tests.
They will only remove the free PCR tests in autumn in France, whatever that means.
For the moment anyone can get Covid certificate by getting a PCR test but I can imagine that wearing a bit thin if you have to have one a couple of times a week just to be able to go to a shopping centre or restaurant or bar etc.

Macron is essentially making life very very difficult for anybody who isn’t vaccinated in a bid to encourage them to get the vaccine.
It is essentially blackmailing them into getting it and I’m not comfortable with that.
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  #27372  
Old 15.07.2021, 16:23
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Re: Coronavirus

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We don't know what the long-term consequences of the vaccines are as they are new, only have emergenc approvals and are using a new technology.

Note that I'm not anti-vax. I also want to stop this pandemic.
Full approval in Switzerland I believe
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  #27373  
Old 15.07.2021, 16:31
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Re: Coronavirus

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They will only remove the free PCR tests in autumn in France, whatever that means.
For the moment anyone can get Covid certificate by getting a PCR test
For free w/o giving a reason?
France is a rich country.

Last edited by TinyK; 15.07.2021 at 16:48.
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  #27374  
Old 15.07.2021, 16:40
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Re: Coronavirus

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For free w/o giving a reason?
France is a reach country.
The reason he gave was that he is prioritising vaccination over testing as he sees vaccines as the best way to ‘control’ the pandemic.

If people have to pay for the PCR test every time they need a Covid certificate it could get very expensive very quickly and people will choose to get the vaccine instead. At least that’s his reasoning.
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  #27375  
Old 15.07.2021, 16:51
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Re: Coronavirus

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The reason he gave was that he is prioritising vaccination over testing as he sees vaccines as the best way to ‘control’ the pandemic.

If people have to pay for the PCR test every time they need a Covid certificate it could get very expensive very quickly and people will choose to get the vaccine instead. At least that’s his reasoning.
About €62 for a PCR test in France if you have to pay yourself.
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  #27376  
Old 15.07.2021, 17:01
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Re: Coronavirus

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Full approval in Switzerland I believe
Correct, Switzerland does not have an emergency approval procedure.
This is why the AZ approval is taking so long.
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  #27377  
Old 15.07.2021, 17:06
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Re: Coronavirus

Spain's courts have just found that the strict "stay at home" order was disproportionate to the risk, illegal and violated basic rights.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc...e-57838615.amp

We are lucky to live here...

Last edited by HickvonFrick; 15.07.2021 at 17:22.
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  #27378  
Old 15.07.2021, 17:32
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Re: Coronavirus

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In the case of taking civil rights away from people who, for whatever reason, are not vaccinated, that is discrimination.
Could you double-check your definition of discrimination?

Some people who are prohibited from certain public activities by their own choice is not discrimination. It can be easily reversed, by a simple test, or an equally simple double vaccination.
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Old 15.07.2021, 18:02
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Re: Coronavirus

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About €62 for a PCR test in France if you have to pay yourself.
Which is expensive for a lot of people on french salaries.
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Old 15.07.2021, 18:06
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Re: Coronavirus

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Typically criminals, by the time the law recognizes them as such, have been tried before a court and found guilty.

In the case of taking civil rights away from people who, for whatever reason, are not vaccinated, that is discrimination.
Exactly criminals choose to be the second tier when they chose to break the law. BTW, people who break the law have still chosen to be in the second tier even if they have not been caught and convicted; they themselves know they are.

Just like people who would choose not to be vaccinated if that was mandated.

Here is a useful list of civil rights, which of these do you claim could be taken away?

Freedom of speech.
Freedom of the press.
Freedom of religion.
Freedom to vote.
Freedom against unwarranted searches of your home or property.
Freedom to have a fair court trial.
Freedom to remain silent in a police interrogation.

People keep bleating about having civil rights taken away without defining these rights.

As an example, what is the logical difference between mandating people must wear masks on public transport versus people must be vaccinated, in either case, people can choose to be the second tier.
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