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  #27381  
Old 15.07.2021, 18:07
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Re: Coronavirus

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Which is expensive for a lot of people on french salaries.
Granted, but the vaccines are (currently) free.

If there is a valid medical reason not to be vaccinated then those should also be given the certificates.
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  #27382  
Old 15.07.2021, 18:12
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Re: Coronavirus

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Children and young people should not be forced to take a vaccine for a virus that poses almost no threat to them. Especially if the vaccine poses more of a threat than the virus. If herd immunity does turn out to be a pipe dream then the push to vaccinate children and the young is simply unforgivable.

https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-...-risk-12351975
On the other hand
A Georgia man's family is telling people to get vaccinated after the 24-year-old underwent a double lung transplant due to contracting the coronavirus.

His mother, Cheryl Nuclo, said her son did not get the coronavirus vaccine with the rest of his family, WSB-TV reported. Bargartze had typical concerns that other coronavirus vaccine skeptics have about the side effects of taking the vaccine.

Blake Bargatze’s mother said her son did not have any underlying health issues.
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  #27383  
Old 15.07.2021, 18:13
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Re: Coronavirus

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We don't know what the long-term consequences of the vaccines are as they are new, only have emergency approvals and are using a new technology.
We also don't know what are the long term effects of getting Covid. A few of my friends have given this as a reason for not taking vaccination, and I do support free will and that people should have the right to choose one way or the other.

But, it's basically one unknown versus another. And for me, the risks of getting vaccinated are far lower than getting Covid both in the short and the long term.
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  #27384  
Old 15.07.2021, 18:26
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Re: Coronavirus

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On the other hand
A Georgia man's family is telling people to get vaccinated after the 24-year-old underwent a double lung transplant due to contracting the coronavirus.

His mother, Cheryl Nuclo, said her son did not get the coronavirus vaccine with the rest of his family, WSB-TV reported. Bargartze had typical concerns that other coronavirus vaccine skeptics have about the side effects of taking the vaccine.

Blake Bargatze’s mother said her son did not have any underlying health issues.
Aside from being visibly obese. But then that's not unusual in the south. Not getting the vaccine is dumb either way.
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Old 15.07.2021, 18:43
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Re: Coronavirus

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Aside from being visibly obese. But then that's not unusual in the south. Not getting the vaccine is dumb either way.
Visibly? Photos?
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  #27386  
Old 15.07.2021, 18:49
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Re: Coronavirus

To travel to the US from Spain 2 weeks ago, I paid approx €95. I had to travel to the next village. At my local (private) clinic, it was €120.

When I traveled from the US to Spain at the end of 2020, the PCR test was free.

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About €62 for a PCR test in France if you have to pay yourself.
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  #27387  
Old 15.07.2021, 18:49
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Re: Coronavirus

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Visibly? Photos?
You have to click through the article to get to the guy’s go fund me page. I think it’s difficult to measure obesity from pictures of a guy in bed.
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  #27388  
Old 15.07.2021, 18:53
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Re: Coronavirus

For several weeks, it was quite draconian. We have dogs and were able to walk them in the hills, but some regions were not even permitted to do that. Time will tell if anything comes of the lawsuit, but I do expect any fines incurred to be refunded or rescinded. I also expect the police who beat offenders will be prosecuted.

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Spain's courts have just found that the strict "stay at home" order was disproportionate to the risk, illegal and violated basic rights.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc...e-57838615.amp

We are lucky to live here...
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  #27389  
Old 15.07.2021, 20:46
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Re: Coronavirus

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Todays published numbers 582 out of 27 k tests

7 hospitalisations*
2 death *

https://www.covid19.admin.ch/en/overview

* Today’s “Difference to previous day” may include additional hospitalisations – because of the subsequent reception of reports going back more than two weeks.


Compared to last week thursday 268 out of 23 k tests

0 (33*) hospitalisations
0 (3*) death

*Adjusted numbers from previous days
Delta to the moon 🚀🚀🚀
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  #27390  
Old 15.07.2021, 20:53
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Re: Coronavirus

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When I traveled from the US to Spain at the end of 2020, the PCR test was free.
There is a private clinic in Alicante where I like to go .

They may be more expensive than the official state run places but you can just walk in without an appointment, the staff are courteous and you never need to wait long . I think that’s worth the extra money . I’ve been inside state run clinics too and there is a universe of difference .
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Old 15.07.2021, 20:54
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Re: Coronavirus

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I fail to understand why herd immunity would be a pipe dream. Infection rates for the fully vaccinated remain rare (and those unlucky people who do get infected will probably be protected for years).

Incidentally - aren't you fairly young, but chose to get it?
Look at the UK, with something like 80% having some form of anti-bodies from the vaccine and many more with natural immunity, do you not think it’s a little strange they’re approaching 50k daily reported cases? Surly there should be some sort of herd effect on display by now if the vaccine was effective as has been reported at preventing transmission?

I took the vaccine because I saw it as the only way out of lockdown restrictions and it was part of “doing my bit” to achieve this goal. Secondary was for personal international travel. I’ve not yet regretted getting the vaccine, but it has often crossed my mind whether it was the correct choice to make.
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  #27392  
Old 15.07.2021, 21:08
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Re: Coronavirus

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For several weeks, it was quite draconian. We have dogs and were able to walk them in the hills, but some regions were not even permitted to do that. Time will tell if anything comes of the lawsuit, but I do expect any fines incurred to be refunded or rescinded. I also expect the police who beat offenders will be prosecuted.
My dad worked out that it’s level to go shopping and he “went” to the shop multiple times a day in his jogging clothes and came back with a pack of butter .

Once the police stopped him but when he showed them the receipt for the butter they were happy
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  #27393  
Old 15.07.2021, 21:37
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Re: Coronavirus

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My dad worked out that it’s level to go shopping and he “went” to the shop multiple times a day in his jogging clothes and came back with a pack of butter .
As far as I remember, I've read that in Spain a person leaving the supermarket with one or a few items, say, a bottle of beer and chips, could have been fined by police.
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  #27394  
Old 15.07.2021, 22:03
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Re: Coronavirus

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Look at the UK, with something like 80% having some form of anti-bodies from the vaccine and many more with natural immunity, do you not think it’s a little strange they’re approaching 50k daily reported cases? Surly there should be some sort of herd effect on display by now if the vaccine was effective as has been reported at preventing transmission?

I took the vaccine because I saw it as the only way out of lockdown restrictions and it was part of “doing my bit” to achieve this goal. Secondary was for personal international travel. I’ve not yet regretted getting the vaccine, but it has often crossed my mind whether it was the correct choice to make.
So 20% are unvaccinated but over 50% of the new cases are from unvaccinated people, what conclusion might we draw from this?

Edit; from the same study, whilst the figures look worrying, it’s important to highlight that vaccines have massively reduced severe infections and post-vaccination COVID is a much milder disease for most people. The main concern is now the risk of Long COVID.”
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  #27395  
Old 15.07.2021, 23:56
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Re: Coronavirus

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As far as I remember, I've read that in Spain a person leaving the supermarket with one or a few items, say, a bottle of beer and chips, could have been fined by police.
Obviously the police that my father met never got the menu .

Anyway , With all the fines that people are appealing the courts are flooded stupid for years to come so you might as well jump on the bandwagon and appeal . The odds are that you’ll never hear back . I know a lawyer in Alicante who says some of his clients are making a sport out of it . More likely or not there will have to be an amnesty anyway .
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  #27396  
Old 16.07.2021, 00:04
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Re: Coronavirus

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Delta to the moon 🚀🚀🚀
You probably haven't seen the graphs of Spain and Netherlands
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  #27397  
Old 16.07.2021, 01:31
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Re: Coronavirus

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Look at the stats and click on the individual cantons in the table, it flattens out everywhere. In the conservative parts of the country earlier than in cities.

https://www.covid19.admin.ch/en/epid...?geoView=table
The problem with that comparison is that for June 2.5-3mln doses were planned for (and presumably delivered) whereas for Juli it's only 1.4mln. Without hoarding, that inevitably must lead to a slowdown by ~50%.
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  #27398  
Old 16.07.2021, 02:00
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Re: Coronavirus

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Spain's courts have just found that the strict "stay at home" order was disproportionate to the risk, illegal and violated basic rights.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc...e-57838615.amp

We are lucky to live here...
Sounds very much like splitting hairs.

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In order to legally limit people's freedoms to the extent they did last year, the court said, the government would have had to declare a state of exception rather than a state of emergency.
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  #27399  
Old 16.07.2021, 04:16
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Re: Coronavirus

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Exactly criminals choose to be the second tier when they chose to break the law. BTW, people who break the law have still chosen to be in the second tier even if they have not been caught and convicted; they themselves know they are.
This is nonsense. Everybody breaks the law at some point. Most of us just don't get caught. In fact there are so many laws that we may well be breaking some without knowing it.

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Here is a useful list of civil rights, which of these do you claim could be taken away?

Freedom of speech.
Freedom of the press.
Freedom of religion.
Freedom to vote.
Freedom against unwarranted searches of your home or property.
Freedom to have a fair court trial.
Freedom to remain silent in a police interrogation.
How about the right of bodily integrity.

Just as nobody can tattoo you against your, will, nobody can stick needles in you against your will.

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As an example, what is the logical difference between mandating people must wear masks on public transport versus people must be vaccinated, in either case, people can choose to be the second tier.
If you attach the mask by sticking needles into your face you may have a point.

Those of us who are not called Marton prefer to use the elastic strap.
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  #27400  
Old 16.07.2021, 04:26
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Re: Coronavirus

Enforcement was pretty spotty in my village, and I don't think the police were looking to write people up, especially with many people out of work. So a store receipt or the paper we needed to carry saying we were going to the store would usually suffice.

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]

My dad worked out that it’s level to go shopping and he “went” to the shop multiple times a day in his jogging clothes and came back with a pack of butter .

Once the police stopped him but when he showed them the receipt for the butter they were happy
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