Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Living in Switzerland > Daily life  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #27701  
Old Yesterday, 16:23
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Basel
Posts: 235
Groaned at 190 Times in 73 Posts
Thanked 387 Times in 170 Posts
FairDinkum has a reputation beyond reputeFairDinkum has a reputation beyond reputeFairDinkum has a reputation beyond reputeFairDinkum has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

And now that some people have seen the youtube video with the MP talking ?

what should we think about this ?
Reply With Quote
  #27702  
Old Yesterday, 16:41
curley's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: canton ZH
Posts: 12,607
Groaned at 206 Times in 171 Posts
Thanked 14,406 Times in 7,447 Posts
curley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
Why couldn't you post the original information first rather than a woman who has a history of being discredited and talking nonsense?
I'm all for differing points of view, but I'm not going to waste my time listening to a proven liar just in case they are right, the boy that cried wolf comes to mind.
Who the fu** is Gillian McKeith?
Never mind, probably part of the reason I'm not on FB.

As to https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jmhvA-DmXYg why does this not surprise me? I can't help laughing about it actually, GB has proven to be a laughing stock years ago.

Does the placebo have to be given to me by a third party or can I do it by autosuggestion and get the paper for it?

Unfortunately for anyone vaccinated in GB this could be: Cancel the holiday flights. Guilt by association.

Quote:
View Post
.... what should we think about this ?
Is that a serious question? LOL
__________________
It Ainít What You Donít Know That Gets You Into Trouble. Itís What You Know for Sure That Just Ainít So
Reply With Quote
  #27703  
Old Yesterday, 16:55
komsomolez's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: SZ
Posts: 1,788
Groaned at 85 Times in 60 Posts
Thanked 3,394 Times in 1,316 Posts
komsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
When I saw that tweet , the headline of the text had a link below and it was one of the uk newspapers. From the time I saw it and came back to screenshot it the link is missing.

I totally forgot about Gillian and I cant see how she's such a big liar (they made a huge thing because she used the Dr. which is not used used in Europe unless you are a med.doctor) whereas in the US you can be a Dr. if you went to some osteopathy,physio,nutritional school..

If you apply that same logic than definitely you shouldnt listen to pharma companies.. like pfizer , who for years have lied, cheated, forged documents(which involves altering, changing and modifying a document for the purpose of deceiving another person or an authority , like fda etc.) yet they did it .

Sandra Jordan, a former federal prosecutor and professor at the Charlotte School of Law in North Carolina, said: ďPfizer can survive this and pay the money. If it had fought the government at trial and lost, and a judge imposed a criminal sentence, that could have resulted in a corporate death penalty. That would have put Pfizer out of business.


Pfizer to pay $2.3 billion, agrees to criminal plea


WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Pfizer Inc agreed on Wednesday to plead guilty to a U.S. criminal charge relating to promotion of its now-withdrawn Bextra pain medicine and will pay a record $2.3 billion to settle allegations it improperly marketed 13 medicines.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-p...5813XB20090902

https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/justi...nt-its-history
I don't care about your relativism here, but I won't take anything for serious from a person who describes herself as The Poo Lady in her Twitter account.
Reply With Quote
  #27704  
Old Yesterday, 17:33
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: SG
Posts: 8,915
Groaned at 461 Times in 344 Posts
Thanked 11,816 Times in 6,155 Posts
Urs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
And now that some people have seen the youtube video with the MP talking ?

what should we think about this ?
IME it helps to be extremely critical of short clips by essentially anonymous posters, to the extent to assume that they misrepresent the facts. Simply because it's far too easy to misrepresent what's actually said with them by removing the context. In this case you'd want at least the question plus the full answer, though the transcript reveals that this wouldn't be enough.

See the transcript.

Rupa Huq's question is the frame for the subsequent question by Barbara Keeley. A part of the answer to the latter is shown in the clip. However, in his answer to Huq's question, Zahawi talks about people who are in a medical trial. In order to keep the trial blind, every participant must be treated the same. You'll want to reward for participation, rather than punish, so it makes sense to give all participants a "vaccinated" pass (validity thereof pending outside of the UK).

The problem arrives after the trial, because you'll want to vaccinate all participants, so you need a solution for the recipients of the placebo. Novavax has solved this conundrum by offering a sencond set of shots to all participants, where they receive what they don't have yet (vaccine or placebo) so that each participant will have received four shots at the end, two placebos and two vaccine jabs or vice versa. Since all participants are willing to get vaxxed, the number of those who will get only two jabs, i.e. possibly placebos only, is probably close to zero.

So overall this looks very much like a nonevent that's blown way out of proportion.
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank Urs Max for this useful post:
  #27705  
Old Yesterday, 17:36
3Wishes's Avatar
Moderately Amused
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Bern area
Posts: 11,144
Groaned at 87 Times in 83 Posts
Thanked 18,844 Times in 8,390 Posts
3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
The problem arrives after the trial, because you'll want to vaccinate everybody. Novavax has solved this conundrum by offering a sencond set of shots for all participants, where they receive what they don't have yet (vaccine or placebo) so that each participant will have received four shots at the end, two placebos and two vaccine jabs or vice versa. Since participants are willing to get vaxxed, the number of those who will get only two jabs, i.e. possibly placebos only, is probably close to zero.
Thanks for sharing, I'd not heard that. I think it's a very reasonable solution.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank 3Wishes for this useful post:
  #27706  
Old Yesterday, 18:10
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Basel
Posts: 235
Groaned at 190 Times in 73 Posts
Thanked 387 Times in 170 Posts
FairDinkum has a reputation beyond reputeFairDinkum has a reputation beyond reputeFairDinkum has a reputation beyond reputeFairDinkum has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

UrsMax I tried to find the other video that lasts 2-3min where he says how they're negotiating with other european countries to approve of that "pass".

The issue for me here it is not whether these people will be vaccinated in future and what will happen and what Novavax or the other companies are saying.

What is shocking (or maybe not) is that moment when we say "virus, huge threat, the unvaccinated are a danger, they spread the virus, they cant go around (danger,danger) including children... but, we will be issuing legal documents, a sanitary passport (certificate) of how they're vaccinated but ..they're not. ? I dont understand how it can even be juridically possible.

This is in the same league as what France has announced week ago...How, people will have to be all vaccinated by september, if they dont do it they will be fired. But, the police is exempt from this rule. They dont have to obey this new "law".

So, technically, they can be called to arrest you, them being unvaccinated because you as unvaccinated are trying to get into a shop/restaurant but you're not allowed to do so.
Also, they (the police) will be issued papers stating how they have the certificate that says -vaccinated- but they are not and they dont have to .

To me this is shocking because we're just witnessing a society creating something never seen before. Also something that does not make sense. But each of us right now is thinking "nah it'll be ok, they'll fix it" . And just like that , the virus has mutated into a china-like totalitarism and we're all "nah, we've got laws man, things are double-triple checked"
__________________
'still not loving police, still rocking khakis with a cuff and a crease...
Reply With Quote
  #27707  
Old Yesterday, 18:41
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Basel
Posts: 235
Groaned at 190 Times in 73 Posts
Thanked 387 Times in 170 Posts
FairDinkum has a reputation beyond reputeFairDinkum has a reputation beyond reputeFairDinkum has a reputation beyond reputeFairDinkum has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Here , from the transcript:

I am really grateful to the hon. Member for that excellent question, and I am grateful for her comments about our Friday morning meetings. Her constituents can rest assured that those who are in clinical trials, including the Novavax trial, will have their data on the NHS covid app as being fully vaccinated, whether they are receiving the placebo or the vaccine, across all trials. That is happening. I will take it offline to look at her constituentsí case to make sure that that happens for them, because I am assured that the system already recognises that.
__________________
'still not loving police, still rocking khakis with a cuff and a crease...
Reply With Quote
  #27708  
Old Yesterday, 18:50
fatmanfilms's Avatar
The Marmite Moderator
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Verbier
Posts: 20,934
Groaned at 447 Times in 341 Posts
Thanked 22,137 Times in 11,486 Posts
fatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Interestingly AZ is accepted by more countries than any other vaccine
https://www.economist.com/graphic-de...WOueVUJ5EJdOk0
Attached Images
 
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank fatmanfilms for this useful post:
  #27709  
Old Yesterday, 19:04
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Nyon
Posts: 4,843
Groaned at 243 Times in 177 Posts
Thanked 6,569 Times in 3,097 Posts
bowlie has a reputation beyond reputebowlie has a reputation beyond reputebowlie has a reputation beyond reputebowlie has a reputation beyond reputebowlie has a reputation beyond reputebowlie has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
Interestingly AZ is accepted by more countries than any other vaccine
https://www.economist.com/graphic-de...WOueVUJ5EJdOk0
Iím not sure that is relevant. A few Andorras, Monacos and Liechtensteins donít actually add up to much.
Reply With Quote
  #27710  
Old Yesterday, 19:27
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: SG
Posts: 8,915
Groaned at 461 Times in 344 Posts
Thanked 11,816 Times in 6,155 Posts
Urs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
Here , from the transcript:

I am really grateful to the hon. Member for that excellent question, and I am grateful for her comments about our Friday morning meetings. Her constituents can rest assured that those who are in clinical trials, including the Novavax trial, will have their data on the NHS covid app as being fully vaccinated, whether they are receiving the placebo or the vaccine, across all trials. That is happening. I will take it offline to look at her constituents’ case to make sure that that happens for them, because I am assured that the system already recognises that.
That refers to incentivising trial participants. If partipation comes with significant disadvantages you're much less likely to find enough participants. Further, Novavax has opened that option 2-3 months ago, so, again, the number this may still apply to should be small. Keep in mind that you need to be willing to be vaccinated to participate in the trial, it's an unconditional prerequisite.

So, how many people do or did get a pass without actual vaccination? And how many of those got a vaccination later on, basically once it was available to them?

ETA:
How is this pass anything fundamentally new? You need a passport or ID to enter a foreign country. Now there may be an additional requirement, however that isn't new either, many countries have been requiring some vaccination or other for ages. I think you should be much more concerned about Migros using cctv and facial recognition software in their shops, and of Pegasus.
Reply With Quote
  #27711  
Old Yesterday, 19:56
curley's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: canton ZH
Posts: 12,607
Groaned at 206 Times in 171 Posts
Thanked 14,406 Times in 7,447 Posts
curley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
Interestingly AZ is accepted by more countries than any other vaccine
https://www.economist.com/graphic-de...WOueVUJ5EJdOk0
Can't see the placebo on your list.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank curley for this useful post:
  #27712  
Old Yesterday, 20:55
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Thalwil
Posts: 938
Groaned at 37 Times in 20 Posts
Thanked 858 Times in 430 Posts
TinyK has earned the respect of manyTinyK has earned the respect of manyTinyK has earned the respect of many
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
Iím not sure that is relevant. A few Andorras, Monacos and Liechtensteins donít actually add up to much.
And Malta! How could you have forgotten Malta?
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank TinyK for this useful post:
  #27713  
Old Today, 00:13
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2021
Location: zug
Posts: 94
Groaned at 30 Times in 18 Posts
Thanked 61 Times in 34 Posts
LakeSwimmer has made some interesting contributions
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
The only thing your example demonstrates is why itís wrong to put so much faith in scientists to take decisions. The most frustrating part of working with scientists, technicians and engineers is their ability to get bogged down in minor details whilst completely missing the bigger picture.

Real world data is showing the efficacy (or effectiveness if you prefer, ultimately for the sake of this argument they may as well be the same thing!) of these vaccines against transmission to be significantly less than measured in trials. The headline should be ďargument for vaccine passports and enforced vaccination collapses as evidence mountsĒ. Yet thereís people like you focussing a description deliberately made for the layman ��
I didnít quote any figures and ďpeople like meĒ ?
I simply posted the definition of efficacy and how it is derived.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank LakeSwimmer for this useful post:
Reply

Tags
cold, corona, coronavirus, covid, covid-19, flu, health, medical, virus




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 7 (3 members and 4 guests)
TinyK, Polymath, bowlie
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Coronavirus Jokes makeabigwish Daily life 204 Today 07:42
Coronavirus closed janvier Forum support 18 01.11.2020 13:12
Paid holidays and coronavirus Curtiss Employment 2 20.04.2020 09:22
Coronavirus scammers are out there - be warned Medea Fleecestealer Daily life 9 18.04.2020 18:53
Leaving Switzerland for UK during coronavirus barkingtreewolf Leaving Switzerland 19 11.04.2020 11:45


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 07:44.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0