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Old 26.07.2021, 12:47
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Re: Coronavirus

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Iceland 80-90% people over 16 vaccinated now seeing another surge in Covid cases.

https://www.icelandreview.com/ask-ir...on-in-iceland/

https://graphics.reuters.com/world-c...ories/iceland/

Gibraltar, all adults fully vaccinated back in April, has also seen a spike in cases.
I honestly struggle to understand what you are trying to prove.
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Old 26.07.2021, 12:50
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Re: Coronavirus

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If that's the case how are the governments going to impose a yearly jab? It is already difficult to have people vax on their own, so much that France and others are imposing. And that's just the beginning. If CV strains change fast, I cannot see revaxing entire countries regularly. WHO is busy fighting with China over investigations of the virus origins, despite China making sure who was voted in as a director. A yearly revax is going to be so expensive, and will demolish the poor countries. CZ just announced sending a couple million doses to poor countries, other places do and will do the same. It amounts to little though. There is still an entity making extra billions on cheap health products, masks and respirators past 18 months.
This exactly.

It's going to end with a lot of politicians getting egg on their faces and having to backtrack on their previous statements.

Covid will become irrelevant eventually anyway.
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Old 26.07.2021, 12:51
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Re: Coronavirus

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I know someone who meets 100s of people daily from all over the world. He is in his 40s and never caught Corona. As a result he is not interested in the vaccine.

I asked him if it was worth risking, he said that he could get stabbed one day, does that mean he should wear a knights armour for rest of his life
What's this guy's job? Passport control?
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Old 26.07.2021, 12:52
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Re: Coronavirus

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I honestly struggle to understand what you are trying to prove.
That domestic vaccine passports are both pointless and wrong. That vaccine coercion is unethical.

Fortunately in Switzerland we likely needn't worry about the two issues above.

If you're old, vulnerable or at risk then it's advisable to get a vaccine though.

Clear now?
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Old 26.07.2021, 13:27
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Re: Coronavirus

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That domestic vaccine passports are both pointless and wrong. That vaccine coercion is unethical.

Fortunately in Switzerland we likely needn't worry about the two issues above.

If you're old, vulnerable or at risk then it's advisable to get a vaccine though.

Clear now?
No, because we have such a perfect solution and it's not our fault the problem is wrong or the science is wrong so we need to vaxx everybody regardless.

Clear now?
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  #27746  
Old 26.07.2021, 13:34
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Re: Coronavirus

TC, Amogles, Dinkum - mind me asking whther you are vaccinated?
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  #27747  
Old 26.07.2021, 13:35
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Re: Coronavirus

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That refers to incentivising trial participants. If partipation comes with significant disadvantages you're much less likely to find enough participants. Further, Novavax has opened that option 2-3 months ago, so, again, the number this may still apply to should be small. Keep in mind that you need to be willing to be vaccinated to participate in the trial, it's an unconditional prerequisite.

So, how many people do or did get a pass without actual vaccination? And how many of those got a vaccination later on, basically once it was available to them?

ETA:
How is this pass anything fundamentally new? You need a passport or ID to enter a foreign country. Now there may be an additional requirement, however that isn't new either, many countries have been requiring some vaccination or other for ages. I think you should be much more concerned about Migros using cctv and facial recognition software in their shops, and of Pegasus.


UrsMax, it is not only about Novavax. It's in general about vaccine trial participants and each one has a different procedure. AZ ones were receiving meningitis vaccine during the trial others something else.. And my concern is not them being vaccinated or not (at earlier or later stage) it is the fact..how you can issue a paper how they're vaccinated (but they arent althought they will be). Knowing how the official discours is going in the direction of "anyone not vaccinated is a danger" then those people are danger as well arent they?
What's frustrating is how there's a lack of coherence. On all levels.

ETA

For me this is something of a fundamental importance.

You will agree with me how in general, if we want to make a new rule and we have the means, we'll do it under whichever excuse. So, let's say someone installs a new rule "everyone should wear a white hat or gloves" and they'll add "it's for your own good" , .. and we'll say "hmm ok, I have to put clothes on, not allowed to walk naked so no big deal if I have to wear a hat".

The question here is: 1. How do I really benefit from that,as an invididual, a taxpayer etc and how is that improving anything .? The reason I'm using this analogy is because if we allow ridiculous rules to be instructed then we're going into something that's totalitarian.

2. Let's not forget how we're all here (more or less) a generation that had to fight the stigma against those who had HIV. Remember how also HIV positive people were considerd "the pest" "danger" but it took a lot of sense and work so people who'd have hiv will not be banned from entering stores,restaurants,planes,etc.
Can you imagine if we did allow on our ID to have "hiv positive" ? What good would that bring to the society ? same goes for the dangerous sars cov2 virus that has a 99,5%survival rate.

3. In China, they've prepared this some time ago and we're just following the new order. In this case it's the AI and everything that's linked to this.

In Beijing and other cities, people are obliged to have their smartphone because every day you have your QR code that allows you to go to certain areas of the city (and certain , not) Once you're there you do have to scan your QR, you have your sanitary passport and the social credit system. It's all linked, and when they have penalties and lose credit points.. then, for ex. you ran a red light then it can be 1y you're not allowed to go outside of your city.. or do certain things or you're downgraded in your job or studies. When you talk to people over there, they say how "it's all fine,they're used to it , no big deal".

Yes,but their recent culture and society are based on a slightly different values than ours.
We came out of the feudal system, the industrial revolution thanks to many elements but also because of the The Age of Enlightenment.
This created the ground for that society our ancestors built, based on equality,liberties,freedom.
Meaning, no more child labor, no more class segregation,no more conditions (you need to believe in God so you can go to college or you need to be vaxxed etc.) And it might actually work for a country like China or some asian countries but why do we need to follow that as if that's some progress? and what we have up to now , isnt ?

ETA is stripping us away from those liberties since we're not gaining anything in having the ETA.
Because if someone can explain, was that the elementary particle that's been missing in our culture? in our lives, world?

How that is so essential all of a sudden, we cant even continue living without the ETA ?
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  #27748  
Old 26.07.2021, 13:35
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Re: Coronavirus

Many organisations/associations time ago did ask for pedophiles to be listed on those "med certificates" and this was rejected because it's an attack to their liberties.
But a person that will not receive the vaccine should be listed and noted and banned in spite of there being the nuremberg code that protects us as individuals against some type of a medical tyranny. (I can use the example of tuberculosis which is a very important element,especially now)

I do understand how some people here are working for big corp. then there are people who are genuinely good and they can not fathom how perhaps there are things that'll be done for all of us that will be completely useless but will make our lives more difficult. For the simple reason because they still believe how the system functions, things are triple checked,verified, approved by some serious committees.. And that's not the case at all.
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  #27749  
Old 26.07.2021, 13:42
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Re: Coronavirus

From WRS
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Infections are rising and more people are in hospital.

The latest figures from the Federal Health Office also notes the more contagious Delta strain is responsible for almost three quarters of new infections.

The average infection rate for the country is at 44 per 100,000 people. Geneva is the worst hit with 116.

That’s a rise of 80% in the past week.

Hospital admissions are also up. Last week 48 went in – the week before it was 23.

But the number of deaths remain stable and low. Two died last week
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Old 26.07.2021, 13:52
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Re: Coronavirus

The science behind mRNA vaccine is really smart despite of what pro and anti crowd say.
I am not worried about any long term issues from the vaccine.
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Old 26.07.2021, 14:10
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Re: Coronavirus

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What's this guy's job? Passport control?
Wouldn't that be one of the safest jobs at the moment? A lot less encounters than usually and the ones who do need to be checked are all tested or vaccinated or recovered.
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Old 26.07.2021, 14:34
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Re: Coronavirus

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The science behind mRNA vaccine is really smart despite of what pro and anti crowd say.
I am not worried about any long term issues from the vaccine.
Me either - you will find a good portion of anti-vaxxers have no problem stuffing their face with highly processed chemical laden junk food & other toxins - but "my body, my choice" right?
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Old 26.07.2021, 14:59
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Re: Coronavirus

2 MDs in local ED who were fully vaccinated with Moderna - both quite ill with delta variant
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Old 26.07.2021, 15:55
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Re: Coronavirus

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TC, Amogles, Dinkum - mind me asking whther you are vaccinated?
I cannot answer for the others, but TC has been open about getting the vaccine. Thanks TC for getting it even if you & I sometimes don't agree.
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Old 26.07.2021, 16:02
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Re: Coronavirus

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TC, Amogles, Dinkum - mind me asking whther you are vaccinated?
Yes, I am. It's possible to be vaccinated and report that the vaccines are not as effective as we've been told. Likewise it's possible to have taken the personal choice to get vaccinated yet be appalled at the prospect of creating a two-tiered society through pointless vaccine passports.

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Also reports from Israel that the effectiveness of the vaccine wears off in relation to the time elapsed since the vaccine was taken, and also that the vaccine isn’t as effective in elderly patients.
This has now been confirmed by the head of Biontech.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/covid-1...ys-11627211359

Behind paywall so unless you have a subscription you'll have to read the story in Fox Business

https://www.foxbusiness.com/healthca...ntech-ceo-says
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Old 26.07.2021, 16:11
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Re: Coronavirus

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Yes, I am. It's possible to be vaccinated and report that the vaccines are not as effective as we've been told. Likewise it's possible to have taken the personal choice to get vaccinated yet be appalled at the prospect of creating a two-tiered society
Sure, just wanted to know.

I am not in favour of mandatory vaxxing and I see your point on the de facto mandate coming in quite a few places.

I don't like your tone though of "not as effective as we have been told", or "promised" as you said another time. You make it sound like we (?) were lied to. First, they seem to work extremely well in terms of preventing death and severe illness. Second, the initial studies were done against wild type and showed great results. I think it is obvious that this is a new situation under development and things might change. This does not take away from the great delivery of extremely effective vaccine.
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Old 26.07.2021, 16:13
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Re: Coronavirus

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...sed-month.html

Daily Mail ( but at least it's not behind a paywall) double jabbed British expats allowed, or likely to be allowed, entry to the UK without quarantine from 1st August.
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Old 26.07.2021, 16:28
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Re: Coronavirus

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https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...sed-month.html

Daily Mail ( but at least it's not behind a paywall) double jabbed British expats allowed, or likely to be allowed, entry to the UK without quarantine from 1st August.
I saw this reported in The Daily Telegraph where the story said that expats will [paraphrasing slightly] 'first have to have their UK GP verify their vaccination certificate'. There then followed hundreds of comments from angry expats pointing out that we don't have a UK GP.

Edited to add: the Daily Mail story says something similar: "Ministers are now reportedly planning to change the rules to allow Brits to register a foreign jab with their GP." Who is our UK GP for heaven's sake? Unless you've only recently migrated and not bothered to deregister then we do not have a UK GP. In fact, I hear from UK family that it's almost impossible to speak to a GP in person so even if you still have a GP, I don't know how you're supposed to arrange this.
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Old 26.07.2021, 16:31
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Re: Coronavirus

Todays published numbers (fri, sat & sun) combined 1746 out of 70 k tests

24 hospitalisations
1 death

https://www.covid19.admin.ch/en/overview

Compared to last weekend 1560 out of 80 k tests

29 hospitalisations
4 death
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Old 26.07.2021, 16:35
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Re: Coronavirus

CZ (similar size to CH) is motivating population to get vaxed - lot of people did for holidays, the rest was hard to push, so within 325 vax centers the Czech healthcare system opened 21 centers without registration and that seems to do the job. There is big interest since they are built in malls and train stations, so where younger people pass through anyways. The plan is to vax at least 60% of population, they admistered already 10mil doses. The cases are similar to CH, so quite low. Actually lower, cca 100-150 cases a day it looks like. Kids coming back to school will have mandatory PCRs. FFP2s are still mandatory in all indoors, public transport and populated places.

I wonder if it makes any difference than here.
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Last edited by MusicChick; 26.07.2021 at 16:45.
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