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Old 26.07.2021, 16:35
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Re: Coronavirus

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Todays published numbers (fri, sat & sun) combined 1746 out of 70 k tests

24 hospitalisations
1 death

https://www.covid19.admin.ch/en/overview

Compared to last weekend 1560 out of 80 k tests

29 hospitalisations
4 death
It looks like it's slowing down. Hopefully this is the last wave for a while.
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  #27762  
Old 26.07.2021, 16:48
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Re: Coronavirus

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It looks like it's slowing down. Hopefully this is the last wave for a while.
Of course it does. Finally school holidays. People are leaving for holidays abroad and to the mountains and almost no international tourists are coming. In Kt ZH the numbers even went down a bit this week because there is nobody around.
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  #27763  
Old 26.07.2021, 16:49
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Re: Coronavirus

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Yes, I am. It's possible to be vaccinated and report that the vaccines are not as effective as we've been told. Likewise it's possible to have taken the personal choice to get vaccinated yet be appalled at the prospect of creating a two-tiered society through pointless vaccine passports.

This has now been confirmed by the head of Biontech.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/covid-1...ys-11627211359

Behind paywall so unless you have a subscription you'll have to read the story in Fox Business

https://www.foxbusiness.com/healthca...ntech-ceo-says
You keep telling us the vaccines are not as effective as claimed.
Then you tell us you are against stopping the unvaccinated spreaders from mixing with the vaccinated.
Logical not!
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  #27764  
Old 26.07.2021, 17:07
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Re: Coronavirus

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Sure, just wanted to know.

I am not in favour of mandatory vaxxing and I see your point on the de facto mandate coming in quite a few places.

I don't like your tone though of "not as effective as we have been told", or "promised" as you said another time. You make it sound like we (?) were lied to. First, they seem to work extremely well in terms of preventing death and severe illness. Second, the initial studies were done against wild type and showed great results. I think it is obvious that this is a new situation under development and things might change. This does not take away from the great delivery of extremely effective vaccine.
With hindsight this probably shows the limitations of banking so much on trials that only lasted about 3.5 months. Waning efficacy together with the myriad of side effects were missed.

I don't think it's over egging the custard to say that we were "promised" so much from these vaccines, as the headline below demonstrates. The language coming from politicians also took a similar tone. I guess it was always fanciful to believe a vaccines would be work as they should (i.e. protect for years/decades and not months) when we see that the Flu vaccines are only marginally effective and have done nothing to reduce the spread or virulence every winter.

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  #27765  
Old 26.07.2021, 17:12
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Re: Coronavirus

I am quite sure that the "promise" people wanted to hear was "you won't die", not "you will never need a booster".

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Old 26.07.2021, 17:57
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Re: Coronavirus

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I am quite sure that the "promise" people wanted to hear was "you won't die", not "you will never need a booster".
Now do Israel. In all seriousness though the vaccines have worked wonders, for elderly and at risk patients. Unfortunately what your graph doesn't show is the massive age and comorbidity stratified risk that the virus poses, or rather doesn't pose for the vast majority. Ultimately being a kid is far more protective than being old and vaccinated.
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Old 26.07.2021, 18:02
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Re: Coronavirus

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Ultimately being a kid is far more protective than being old and vaccinated.
Amen
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  #27768  
Old 26.07.2021, 18:23
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Re: Coronavirus

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Of course it does. Finally school holidays. People are leaving for holidays abroad and to the mountains and almost no international tourists are coming. In Kt ZH the numbers even went down a bit this week because there is nobody around.
Aren’t the numbers measured in per 100,000 or whatever . So unless infected people are going on vacation over proportionally for whatever reason , surely it shouldn’t matter ?
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Old 26.07.2021, 18:27
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Re: Coronavirus

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Wouldn't that be one of the safest jobs at the moment? A lot less encounters than usually and the ones who do need to be checked are all tested or vaccinated or recovered.
I gather you’ve not been to an airport lately .
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  #27770  
Old 26.07.2021, 18:32
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Re: Coronavirus

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Wouldn't that be one of the safest jobs at the moment? A lot less encounters than usually and the ones who do need to be checked are all tested or vaccinated or recovered.
No idea. I was just wondering in what job one meets "100s of people from all over the world every day".
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  #27771  
Old 26.07.2021, 18:42
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Re: Coronavirus

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Of course it does. Finally school holidays. People are leaving for holidays abroad and to the mountains and almost no international tourists are coming. In Kt ZH the numbers even went down a bit this week because there is nobody around.
I think you very well might be right. Our neighborhood has become extremely quiet in the past week or so. And last Friday, we went to a pool that is normally packed on a hot, sunny day but it wasn't packed at all. Most of the Swiss people that I know are traveling within here in CH, for their holidays. So I guess that if they tested positive, they would still be reflected in the numbers here. But of course I'm sure that a LOT of people are also traveling outside of CH. Hopefully the #'s won't begin to rise dramatically here once they return home.

Not that it's possible to find out, but it would be interesting to know how many of the new cases here are people who had been fully vaccinated and were surprised to test positive when they got a test for travel purposes.

Last edited by Pancakes; 26.07.2021 at 19:37.
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  #27772  
Old 26.07.2021, 18:52
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Re: Coronavirus

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Of course it does. Finally school holidays. People are leaving for holidays abroad and to the mountains and almost no international tourists are coming. In Kt ZH the numbers even went down a bit this week because there is nobody around.
But there were 70K tests so there are plenty of people around and presumably, this number includes " People are leaving for holidays abroad" who mostly have to get tested before travelling.
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Old 26.07.2021, 20:28
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Re: Coronavirus

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...... I guess it was always fanciful to believe a vaccines would be work as they should (i.e. protect for years/decades and not months) .....
The length of time immunisation remains effective due to vaccination is a function of the disease, not of the vaccine. It is certainly fanciful to believe a vaccine will protect for decades if the natural immunity is much shorter.

Here is a useful list of the duration of protection resulting from vaccinations against different diseases. You can see these range from four years to lifelong depending on the disease.

If we look at all four seasonal coronaviruses (excluding COVID-19) then we find reinfections occurred most frequently at 12 months after infection.

COVID-19 has not been around long enough to determine the duration of protection neither natural or acquired.
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Old 26.07.2021, 22:35
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Re: Coronavirus

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I don't think it's over egging the custard to say that we were "promised" so much from these vaccines, as the headline below demonstrates. The language coming from politicians also took a similar tone. I guess it was always fanciful to believe a vaccines would be work as they should (i.e. protect for years/decades and not months) when we see that the Flu vaccines are only marginally effective and have done nothing to reduce the spread or virulence every winter.
Only 8mln doses allocated by the UK so far, 7mln more to go.
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It looks like it's slowing down. Hopefully this is the last wave for a while.
Hospitalisations and deaths are a function of the infections. I may be missing something, but applying the actual positivity rate to last time's 80k tests I get a 35% increase (calculated in the head, 80k this weekend would have given 2100 positives).
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Aren’t the numbers measured in per 100,000 or whatever . So unless infected people are going on vacation over proportionally for whatever reason , surely it shouldn’t matter ?
That may depend on how people react.
They may ignore what feels like an ordinary "sneeze" (but is covid) under ordinary circumstances, but their holidays may force them to get tested.
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  #27775  
Old 26.07.2021, 23:28
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Re: Coronavirus

I just came across this in the news and thought I'd share it:

Pfizer and Moderna to expand size of vaccine studies in 5- to 11-year-olds
https://abcnews.go.com/Health/pfizer...posts_card_hed

"Pfizer and Moderna are expanding the size of their COVID-19 vaccine studies in children ages 5 to 11, according to a new report.

The decision, which came after a push from the Food and Drug Administration, according to The New York Times, is intended to detect rare side effects in young people under the age of 30, such as myocarditis (inflammation of the heart muscle) and pericarditis (inflammation of the outer lining of the heart). The original size of the studies was too small to detect those rare side effects..."


I don't want this to evolve into an argument, but I'm curious how many people here with small kids would be comfortable with having their children vaccinated. For myself, it depends on the results of the studies, I guess. I suppose it's probably parental instinct to feel very protective of your children.
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  #27776  
Old 26.07.2021, 23:44
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Re: Coronavirus

I'm interested, who would vaccinate their kids with Moderna if there is an access to Pfizer which has the same effectiveness with 3 times less active substance and less side effects?
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Old 27.07.2021, 00:00
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Re: Coronavirus

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I think you very well might be right. Our neighborhood has become extremely quiet in the past week or so. And last Friday, we went to a pool that is normally packed on a hot, sunny day but it wasn't packed at all. Most of the Swiss people that I know are traveling within here in CH, for their holidays. So I guess that if they tested positive, they would still be reflected in the numbers here. But of course I'm sure that a LOT of people are also traveling outside of CH. Hopefully the #'s won't begin to rise dramatically here once they return home.

Not that it's possible to find out, but it would be interesting to know how many of the new cases here are people who had been fully vaccinated and were surprised to test positive when they got a test for travel purposes.
I think you’ll find it’s quite difficult to go anywhere vacation-like without at least a test .

So I don’t somehow believe this yarn about people leaving Switzerland and only discovering they are positive when at destination .

I suspect positive cases are nose diving in real terms despite people traveling and doing stupid stuff, and the eternal pessimists are trying to sell this as bad news
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  #27778  
Old 27.07.2021, 00:00
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Re: Coronavirus

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Aren’t the numbers measured in per 100,000 or whatever . So unless infected people are going on vacation over proportionally for whatever reason , surely it shouldn’t matter ?
Judging by other countries the delta variant is mostly spread among 10-30 year olds, so the holidays at schools and universities should probably temporary slow the spreading.

I wonder if there is a chance to catch deta in the cable car in summer? Do they still limit the number of passengers there comparing to the normal times? I see that people stick to the mask rule not as thorough as before after the recent relaxation of measures. As the masks are not required in the restaurants while sitting anymore some people don't wear them during walking or going to the toilet. And the waiter can take the mask off while talking to the customers.
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Old 27.07.2021, 00:05
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Re: Coronavirus

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I'm interested, who would vaccinate their kids with Moderna if there is an access to Pfizer which has the same effectiveness with 3 times less active substance and less side effects?
I think I would want my son to have whatever vaccine the most studies had been done about, for his age group, that showed no or very, very minimal risk.

Kids tend to have stronger immune systems, right? Probably even more so than most 40 year-olds. It makes me wonder what their side effects might be, then, since the vaccine triggers a strong immune reaction, which is what in turn causes the side effects (fever, etc.).

Curiously, has anyone here had had teenagers who have received a second dose yet? What were their side effects?
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  #27780  
Old 27.07.2021, 08:18
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Re: Coronavirus

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