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Old 27.07.2021, 08:44
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Re: Coronavirus

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I think I need my morning coffee before I take another look at that graph
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  #27782  
Old 27.07.2021, 08:49
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Re: Coronavirus

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I don't want this to evolve into an argument, but I'm curious how many people here with small kids would be comfortable with having their children vaccinated. For myself, it depends on the results of the studies, I guess. I suppose it's probably parental instinct to feel very protective of your children.
You don't need to wait for the studies. 1 child death in Switzerland for under 10s, and vaccines that don't prevent against infection or transmission. There's got to be something wrong with people who want to vaccinate their kids, also something ethically wrong with people putting their young kids forward for trials.

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I think I need my morning coffee before I take another look at that graph
I'll help you, the chart assumes 80% efficacy against infection

The proof in the pudding will come in the winter. I'm curious to see if the vaccines will still hold up then.
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Old 27.07.2021, 09:03
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Re: Coronavirus

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I'll help you, the chart assumes 80% efficacy against infection

The proof in the pudding will come in the winter. I'm curious to see if the vaccines will still hold up then.
More importantly, the charts assumes 94% protection against hospitalization. Which is the real life data from PHE in their June 2021 study.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/v...-delta-variant

Of course this can change going forward. The point here is to show how the scare stories of "40% of all hospitalized had beed vaxxed" are misleading.
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Old 27.07.2021, 09:08
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Re: Coronavirus

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You don't need to wait for the studies. 1 child death in Switzerland for under 10s, and vaccines that don't prevent against infection or transmissionn.
There you go again, generalizing/exaggerating to make a point first thing in the morning.

Happy day to you TC.
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Old 27.07.2021, 09:19
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Re: Coronavirus

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There you go again, generalizing/exaggerating to make a point first thing in the morning.
It's not a generalization or exaggeration, it's a fact!

Even if it wasn't a fact (though again, I assure you it is), what sort of society protects their elderly by using their children (at a potential risk to them)? It goes against everything it means to be a parent and indeed a human.
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Old 27.07.2021, 09:20
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Re: Coronavirus

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You don't need to wait for the studies. 1 child death in Switzerland for under 10s, and vaccines that don't prevent against infection or transmission. There's got to be something wrong with people who want to vaccinate their kids, also something ethically wrong with people putting their young kids forward for trials.
Well, I think parents should make informed decisions once more information is available via the studies. And I think parents should have the option of vaccinating their high-risk children. My close friend's 7-year old grandson in the US was unable to walk for two weeks due to severe inflammation in his hips caused by Covid, and he still suffers from "Long Covid" today -- seven months after he had contracted the virus. He had no known pre-existing conditions.

Not to mention the fact that the virus could potentially mutate to become much more deadly in children.
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Old 27.07.2021, 09:24
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Re: Coronavirus

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You don't need to wait for the studies. 1 child death in Switzerland for under 10s, and vaccines that don't prevent against infection or transmission. There's got to be something wrong with people who want to vaccinate their kids, also something ethically wrong with people putting their young kids forward for trials.



I'll help you, the chart assumes 80% efficacy against infection

The proof in the pudding will come in the winter. I'm curious to see if the vaccines will still hold up then.
Sure, there is (almost?) no such thing as a high risk child in terms of deaths - I can accept that.

But when you look at the vaccine safety record the potential benefit in terms of avoiding illness / missing school is still on the side of benefiting the child, for me.

The only relatively serious side effect is myocarditis - and that is not fatal in young people.
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Old 27.07.2021, 09:25
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Re: Coronavirus

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Well, I think parents should make informed decisions once more information is available via the studies. And I think parents should have the option of vaccinating their high-risk children. My close friend's 7-year old grandson in the US was unable to walk for two weeks due to severe inflammation in his hips caused by Covid, and he still suffers from "Long Covid" today -- seven months after he had contracted the virus. He had no known pre-existing conditions.
High risk children is another matter. For almost all children though, let's not pretend this virus presents a serious threat to them. In almost all cases, it manifests itself in young children with symptoms indistinguishable from a common cold. We shouldn't be vaccinating children against a virus that poses almost no risk to them, with vaccines for which we have absolutely no long term data.
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  #27789  
Old 27.07.2021, 09:26
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Re: Coronavirus

I think it is for parents to decide together with their children. When a vaccine is permitted for use in youth and children, I personally have confidence in its general safety and of course will look at the risk/reward profile. And we will make this determination without asking TC.

The more important issue to prevent schools from being covid hubs would be that 100% of parents get vaccinated, in my view.
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  #27790  
Old 27.07.2021, 09:32
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Re: Coronavirus

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It's not a generalization or exaggeration, it's a fact!

Even if it wasn't a fact (though again, I assure you it is), what sort of society protects their elderly by using their children (at a potential risk to them)? It goes against everything it means to be a parent and indeed a human.
Mhmmm, please show any facts/evidence that the vaccines don't stop any transmissions or contractions of the virus & that only the elderly suffer from it. If you would like, I could call up my healthy, thin and young colleague in Bangalore who was in the ICU for two weeks and she can tell you more about it. TC, you can really do better than this.

A friend posted this FB comment this AM & it gave me a real chuckle:

"I once almost choked to death while eating food. I did my own research and discovered that I am not alone. Thousands of people choke every year while eating, and hundreds of those people die. That is what I don't feed my kids. It is dangerous. Now plenty of people will point out that food supposedly "prevents starvation", and that might be true, but it is not fair to completely ignore all the dangers food poses, like choking, allergies, gingivitis, and garlic breath. I'm just saying - do your own research and decide what you think is best for your kids. If you choose to give your kids potentially deadly food, that is your problem. But as a parent, I don't think the government has any right to tell me that I need to feed my kids."
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  #27791  
Old 27.07.2021, 09:50
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Re: Coronavirus

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High risk children is another matter. For almost all children though, let's not pretend this virus presents a serious threat to them. In almost all cases, it manifests itself in young children with symptoms indistinguishable from a common cold. We shouldn't be vaccinating children against a virus that poses almost no risk to them, with vaccines for which we have absolutely no long term data.
Well, that was basically my point -- that parents of high-risk children should have the option of vaccinating their kids. And of course, these studies are a necessary precursor for that. I guess the other issue is that a child can be high-risk without the child's parents or doctors being aware of it. Someone can be high-risk and not even know it. This happened to my friend's 60-year old mother, who had no known pre-existing conditions. She caught Covid last December, spent the next three or four months in a coma and was just finally released from the hospital a few weeks ago (she is now in a nursing home, basically) and she is still unable to walk. The doctors now believe that she became so ill due to her having an untreated/un-diagnosed ulcer (because the virus also attacks your stomach).

I have another friend whose 8-year old daughter has Crohn's disease. I think she should, at some point, at least have the option of vaccinating her daughter.

So you can't just throw a blanketed statement out there, that Covid is not a serious threat to children. Because it is in fact a serious threat to some. And this renders the studies regarding the vaccines in children necessary, in my opinion.
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Old 27.07.2021, 09:51
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Re: Coronavirus

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We shouldn't be vaccinating children against a virus that poses almost no risk to them, with vaccines for which we have absolutely no long term data.
So your kids were not vaccinated for Rubella? Which poses a threat mainly to pregnant women but still is part of the vaccination program in a lot of countries.
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Old 27.07.2021, 09:58
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Re: Coronavirus

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So your kids were not vaccinated for Rubella? Which poses a threat mainly to pregnant women but still is part of the vaccination program in a lot of countries.
German measles was very common when I was a child, I caught it.
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Old 27.07.2021, 10:03
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Re: Coronavirus

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German measles was very common when I was a child, I caught it.
Anyone of a certain age most likely as it wasn‘t in the vaccination program when I grew up.
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Old 27.07.2021, 10:04
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Re: Coronavirus

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Not to mention the fact that the virus could potentially mutate to become much more deadly in children.
Most viruses mutate over time to become less deadly . Ask Darwin . It’s much easier for your host to infect more people when not in a coffin six feet under .
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Old 27.07.2021, 10:05
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Re: Coronavirus

C'mon you guys, please Stop feeding the troll.

Nothing you can say is going to change his behaviour.

Ignore him, (in both senses) perhaps he will go away.
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Old 27.07.2021, 10:08
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Re: Coronavirus

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German measles was very common when I was a child, I caught it.
And so was the chicken pox when I was a kid - I have scars and traumatic memories from a very bad case. Envious that I wasn't able to have the now available vaccine to prevent it - your point?
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Old 27.07.2021, 10:09
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Re: Coronavirus

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C'mon you guys, please Stop feeding the troll.

Nothing you can say is going to change his behaviour.

Ignore him, (in both senses) perhaps he will go away.
Close to 30,000 posts and still active as ever, so not confident of that ...
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Old 27.07.2021, 10:15
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Re: Coronavirus

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So your kids were not vaccinated for Rubella? Which poses a threat mainly to pregnant women but still is part of the vaccination program in a lot of countries.
A vaccine for Rubella has been around for over 50 years. It's been tested, it's safe, it's effective and it lasts a lifetime. Most pregnant women are now immune as it has been so widely used. To compare it to the Covid vaccines is nearly as absurd as Susie-Q's Facebook analogy!
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Old 27.07.2021, 10:19
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Re: Coronavirus

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And so was the chicken pox when I was a kid - I have scars and traumatic memories from a very bad case. Envious that I wasn't able to have the now available vaccine to prevent it - your point?
Nobody had peanut allergies either, the population seems way more delicate 50 years on, is that really progress?

I don't recall anybody drinking car battery acid either but it's necessary to write a warning now, presumable for people old enough to read rather than young children who might actually try. Looks like the level of common sense has decreased too over time.
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