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Old 26.08.2021, 18:48
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Re: Coronavirus

amogles, I did not list the chinese sinovac,coronaVac,sinopharm or the russian sputnik, covivac, EpiVacCorona because our western world does not accept them, approves them nor will issue a QR code for them or a pass..
it's as if they dont exist..

Axa says how they may be seen as inefficient ..Which is highly unlikely

If China with around 1Bil and neighbouring countries have vaxxed with sinovac and Russia with sputnik, if we follow the deadly virus logic then they would have had by now huge mortality rate, people droppinng dead people everywhere, expats trying to save their lives.. apocalyptic scenario

China, burma,bangladesh,laos,taiwan,vietnam are in fact doing well so how come that vaccine is inneficient
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  #29702  
Old 26.08.2021, 18:58
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Re: Coronavirus

Back to some data. This may explain why people have so diverse views on the reaction of governments to the pandemic. International air travel capacity might be a very good proxy of local government policy. The full explanation of the plot is here (https://www.oag.com/blog/vaccination...nal-air-travel). I'll make a short summary here below.

The horizontal axis represents the international air travel this week compared to year 2019, thus sum of number of seats in planes connecting countries. The vertical axis is the percentage of people who have received the first vaccine dose. The 2 circles for each country connected by an arrow is the air travel capacity of the 15th July week and the 23th August week.

To begin with, there are 3 outliers: Turkey, Greece and Mexico with only 50% of people getting the first vaccine dose. They rely heavy on tourist income, so they cannot let people without a job. Starvation has a deadlier rate than covid19. Greece and Mexico have more flights than 2019. Turkey only -20%.

Then, there's an interesting rectangle. Germany, France, Spain, and the USA are in the top right. Between 60-80% of people have been vaccinated but air travel is still 40% less than 2019. This is generalization, so don't lynch me. What I perceive from the people of this places is that situation is not OK but could be worse.

Then we have the UK and Canada. 70% of people have got the first dose. Vaccination has stopped and air travel is -60% from 2019. The local policies are killing air travel. You know the outcome better than me. The mood of people with UK & Canada links is not the best around the forum.

Then, South East Asia. Vaccination rate increased in the last 6 weeks but air travel is DEAD, -90% from summer 2019. But, we don't get many opinions from people from there in EF. Am I right?

Finally, Australia and New Zealand...what the F***? Both have a 1st dose vaccination rate similar to Colombia or Mexico. Nothing against middle-income Latin American countries, I'd just expect richer countries to be better in logistics. But the most surprising fact is that both Australia and NZ's policies killed air travel: -90% compared to 2019. No surprise why FairDinkum is posting about dystopian dictatorships, it is really f****d up.

Maybe this is as idiotic as forming an opinion based on a conversation with taxi drivers in foreign countries, but at least it shows the diversity of government policies around the world concerning covid19. Some places are more free than others and this may get to us via the interactions with family and friends thousands of KM away.

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  #29703  
Old 26.08.2021, 19:04
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Re: Coronavirus

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amogles, I did not list the chinese sinovac,coronaVac,sinopharm or the russian sputnik, covivac, EpiVacCorona because our western world does not accept them, approves them nor will issue a QR code for them or a pass..
it's as if they dont exist..
Maybe alternative media needs to stop crying every once in a while. All those tears impair their sight Vaccines accepted for tourists entering Switzerland to be exempted from restrictions according to Swiss BAG/OFSP. I read Sinopharm and Sinovac.


source: https://www.bag.admin.ch/bag/en/home...tml#-440105700
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  #29704  
Old 26.08.2021, 19:28
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Re: Coronavirus

Axa, I dont know when they added the two chinese vaccines. Maybe month ago? Because WHO approves the chinese and russian vaccines but European countries decided to disapprove.. only Grece and Spain decided to do differently..

Mind you in China also they have some crazy restrictions and they dont approve of pfizer od moderna, people have to have a serious reason to travel to China (tourism not being one) and respect quarantine period and other restrictions.
It was like this in June I dont think they've changed it.
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  #29705  
Old 26.08.2021, 19:30
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Re: Coronavirus

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Apartheid was only ended largely thanks to boycotts. Yes, a lot of people suffered who had nothing to do with apartheid, and yes, I put vaccination passports on a par with apartheid.
Surely in these PC days, it is peoplecotts?
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  #29706  
Old 26.08.2021, 19:41
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Re: Coronavirus

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Axa, I dont know when they added the two chinese vaccines. Maybe month ago? Because WHO approves the chinese and russian vaccines but European countries decided to disapprove.. only Grece and Spain decided to do differently..

Mind you in China also they have some crazy restrictions and they dont approve of pfizer od moderna, people have to have a serious reason to travel to China (tourism not being one) and respect quarantine period and other restrictions.
It was like this in June I dont think they've changed it.
Me neither. I just looked a few days ago because mother in law got Sinovac vaccine. I was surprised to read it on the list. Now, there are no excuses.....
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  #29707  
Old 26.08.2021, 19:45
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Re: Coronavirus

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Me neither. I just looked a few days ago because mother in law got Sinovac vaccine. I was surprised to read it on the list. Now, there are no excuses.....
I suggest you start a Referendum to remove it from the list. My mother in law has also had it. Maybe a cantonal one?
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  #29708  
Old 26.08.2021, 20:24
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Re: Coronavirus

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The greater good is always best served by everybody taking care of themselves first . Ask Adam Smith
Until last year I always had faith in democracy and the democratic system, certainly in the Swiss system. The last year however has made me not so sure. That basic freedoms and rights can so easily be taken away on the basis of no scientific evidence at all, just some abstract idea of "protecting others", or "the greater good".

Now in many places there's a clear majority of people, brainwashed by a campaign of fear bought and paid for by their governments, who support ever more insane measures. I used to scoff at the idea of constitutions, now I'm turning to the opinion that a strong constitution is as important, if not more so than democracy as at least it protects the individual from the collective madness of others!!
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Old 26.08.2021, 21:12
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Re: Coronavirus

Looks like there is cantonal support for the wider use of the certificates, at least among the health directors.

Also, in AG hospitals again starting to postpone surgeries.

https://www.nzz.ch/schweiz/coronavir...gen-ld.1542664
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  #29710  
Old 26.08.2021, 21:28
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Re: Coronavirus

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amogles, I did not list the chinese sinovac,coronaVac,sinopharm or the russian sputnik, covivac, EpiVacCorona because our western world does not accept them, approves them nor will issue a QR code for them or a pass..
it's as if they dont exist..

Axa says how they may be seen as inefficient ..Which is highly unlikely

If China with around 1Bil and neighbouring countries have vaxxed with sinovac and Russia with sputnik, if we follow the deadly virus logic then they would have had by now huge mortality rate, people droppinng dead people everywhere, expats trying to save their lives.. apocalyptic scenario

China, burma,bangladesh,laos,taiwan,vietnam are in fact doing well so how come that vaccine is inneficient
It is completely untrue "our western world does not accept them, approves them nor will issue a QR code for them or a pass."

You might believe that vaccine approvals fall from the skies like the gentle rain from heaven?

The reality is that for a vaccine manufacturer to get approval they must request approval and provide the required information.

The European Medicines Agency (EMA) stated that its rolling reviews of vaccine approvals include Sinovac BioTech, and Russia's Sputnik V.
They publish the status of the reviews here.

No other Chinese and Russian vaccine manufacturers have applied for EU approval.

There is no record of EMA rejecting any requests for COVID-19 vaccine approvals.

There is no record of any Chinese and Russian COVID-19 vaccine manufacturers who have applied for US FDA approval.
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  #29711  
Old 26.08.2021, 21:32
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Re: Coronavirus

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Axa, I dont know when they added the two chinese vaccines. Maybe month ago? Because WHO approves the chinese and russian vaccines but European countries decided to disapprove.. only Grece and Spain decided to do differently..

Mind you in China also they have some crazy restrictions and they dont approve of pfizer od moderna, people have to have a serious reason to travel to China (tourism not being one) and respect quarantine period and other restrictions.
It was like this in June I dont think they've changed it.
You posted "European countries decided to disapprove [the chinese and russian vaccines].
Do you have evidence to support this or is it more fact-free nonsense?
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  #29712  
Old 26.08.2021, 21:33
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Re: Coronavirus

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The greater good is always best served by everybody taking care of themselves first . Ask Adam Smith
Tried, doesn't work (well enough).
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Old 26.08.2021, 21:34
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Re: Coronavirus

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You posted "European countries decided to disapprove [the chinese and russian vaccines].
Do you have evidence to support this or is it more fact-free nonsense?
Clearly that was a political decision as is the reverse. Probably related to security of supply so probably a good political reason.

Im not talking about the fda or the Ema, but rather those in charge of vaccine sourcing.

The ops wording is unclear "countries" suggests governments (given the ema does not correspond to a country), while "disapprove" suggests the medical authorities.
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  #29714  
Old 26.08.2021, 21:42
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Re: Coronavirus

Fresh and long piece from Science on aerosol transmission of respiratory virus. Haven't read it yet, but I bet it is worth it.

http://science.sciencemag.org/conten.../eabd9149.full

It is so fresh, it carries tomorrow's date.
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  #29715  
Old 26.08.2021, 21:51
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Re: Coronavirus

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Clearly that was a political decision as is the reverse. Probably related to security of supply so probably a good political reason.

Im not talking about the fda or the Ema, but rather those in charge of vaccine sourcing.

The ops wording is unclear "countries" suggests governments (given the ema does not correspond to a country), while "disapprove" suggests the medical authorities.
No evidence of disapprovals then? Which countries and when?
Just another fact-free fantasy?

Countries can only import and use vaccines when their own approval process has OK'd them or a higher authority like EMA.

EMA has certainly not disapproved any.
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Old 26.08.2021, 21:59
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Re: Coronavirus

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Maybe alternative media needs to stop crying every once in a while. All those tears impair their sight Vaccines accepted for tourists entering Switzerland to be exempted from restrictions according to Swiss BAG/OFSP. I read Sinopharm and Sinovac.


source: https://www.bag.admin.ch/bag/en/home...tml#-440105700
So tourists with that vaxx are being allowed to enter? OK, this is new to me.

But what about residents, who may for whatever reason have got the jab abroad and are now being denied vaxx passports?

I actually know somebody in this situation. When she got the jab she didn't yet know that she would be offered a job in CH.
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Old 26.08.2021, 22:05
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Re: Coronavirus

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Are you suggesting that people choose their skin colour?
Ever heard of Michael Jackson?
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Old 26.08.2021, 22:08
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Re: Coronavirus

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So tourists with that vaxx are being allowed to enter? OK, this is new to me.

But what about residents, who may for whatever reason have got the jab abroad and are now being denied vaxx passports?

I actually know somebody in this situation. When she got the jab she didn't yet know that she would be offered a job in CH.
Switzerland does not issue vaxx passports?
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  #29719  
Old 26.08.2021, 22:26
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Re: Coronavirus

This week's Osterholm podcast. Tune in at 73 mins for a 15 min interview with an ICU doctor on what they are experiencing currently in the US. It is not particularly inspiring.

https://open.spotify.com/episode/6PV...nk&dl_branch=1
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  #29720  
Old 26.08.2021, 22:40
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Re: Coronavirus

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C’mon guys, just get the vaccine. In 4 weeks time you too can party again.
BBC presenter Lisa Shaw died of Covid vaccine complications, coroner finds
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