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  #3001  
Old 13.03.2020, 20:57
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Re: Coronavirus

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Toilet paper shortage? Time to invest in one of these.

Can‘t recommend one these in your bathroom enough. Best thing I ever bought (except perhaps for a Tesla)...
Or time to finally switch to cloth. Completely liberates one from the stress of the dependence on toilet paper, at home or in public toilets.

Just do it.

Admittedly, they're best used when there's water around to rinse them out before popping them in the washing machine.
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Old 13.03.2020, 20:58
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Re: Coronavirus


FAKE NEWS


Was already linked on the first article you linked, and is FAKE.


There is even a report to police in Italy against the authors of the two fake audio recordings in the article, wich are not doctors, btw.



Again, please, STOP. Enough is enough.



http://www.milanotoday.it/attualita/...fake-news.html


https://www.lastampa.it/cronaca/2020...ial-1.38580222


http://www.ansa.it/lombardia/notizie...47afcc6b3.html


https://www.ilfattoquotidiano.it/202...urare/5732193/
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  #3003  
Old 13.03.2020, 21:01
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Re: Coronavirus

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I really, really do not understand why are people buying toilet paper when diarrhea is not one of the symptoms. Is it really that big secret that one can also simply wash their trunk with water in case paper would really run out?

On a more serious note, have started to feel quite bad for older people, was doing some shopping today and there were many lonely looking older gentlemen filling their trolleys with random food, some looking quite lost.

Felt myself like such a ####, also buying a bit more food while in comparison, I have almost nothing to worry about (well I do tiny bit but risks is 50 times smaller).
Was thinking, couldnt they order for example army guys to deliver food for people above 70, just give them a number they could call and food would be delivered to their door without any extra cost. Would signup to do the deliveries myself if there would be an option (fully protected of course as do not want to make anyone sick in case I unknowingly have the virus) so in case anyone know any voluntary service like this, let me know.
I agree with your sentiments about the elderly. I myself fall into the at risk group due to age, although only just, and have been wondering what I could do to help.

With regards to the Army, my son is doing his military service and the Army has been put into active mode. It's not clear what duties will be required, my son is in the medical corps and it seems he may be sent to hospitals. The Zivilschutz (Civil protection) has been put on 24 hour standby.

Apart from these two groups there are a large number of men who have opted out of military service (some 15,000 last year alone) and have by law to perform a Zivildienst (civil duty). I hope some of these men could be used to help the older population.

I will contact my local Frauenvereins and ask what I might be able to do ... shopping, deliveries etc. I worked with four local Frauenvereins for 12 years teaching English to groups of elderly ladies so already have contacts there.

I feel strongly that we need to pull together and protect one another.
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  #3004  
Old 13.03.2020, 21:03
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Re: Coronavirus

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This is the guy who is speaking in the podcast...

http://www.cidrap.umn.edu/about-us/c...erholm-phd-mph

"Dr. Osterholm is Regents Professor, McKnight Presidential Endowed Chair in Public Health, the director of the Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy (CIDRAP), Distinguished Teaching Professor in the Division of Environmental Health Sciences, School of Public Health, a professor in the Technological Leadership Institute, College of Science and Engineering, and an adjunct professor in the Medical School, all at the University of Minnesota. From June 2018 through May 2019, he served as a Science Envoy for Health Security on behalf of the US Department of State. He is also on the Board of Regents at Luther College in Decorah, Iowa."

And the link to the podcast / his interview:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3URhJx0NSw
I find this Italian journalist's experience genuine:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bos...outputType=amp
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Old 13.03.2020, 21:21
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Re: Coronavirus

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Cold water
Not likely - heated to 37°C...
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  #3006  
Old 13.03.2020, 21:23
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Re: Coronavirus

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I find this Italian journalist's experience genuine:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bos...outputType=amp



I'm Italian, I know this ''journalist'' and the, let say, biased newpapers is writing for. I find his article partially genuine, only when he speaks about personal feelings and suggestions to the other nation to be more proactive than Italy.


But again, you seem to have the need to say that in Italy we are killing people, or just let them die because we can not cope. More than a need, an urgence. And nothing, not even reference to people in charge, putting their face and name in public declaration to confute that seems to stop you. They will have to confront the truth in a few weeks if they are lying, your misterious sorces, the fake news makers and the ''journalists'' looking for clicks will never.
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Old 13.03.2020, 21:25
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Re: Coronavirus

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FAKE NEWS


Was already linked on the first article you linked, and is FAKE.


There is even a report to police in Italy against the authors of the two fake audio recordings in the article, wich are not doctors, btw.



Again, please, STOP. Enough is enough.



http://www.milanotoday.it/attualita/...fake-news.html


https://www.lastampa.it/cronaca/2020...ial-1.38580222


http://www.ansa.it/lombardia/notizie...47afcc6b3.html


https://www.ilfattoquotidiano.it/202...urare/5732193/
Perhaps some articles are sharing fake news, but that certainly doesn't mean that all of them are. Do a Google search for "doctors sharing stories from Milan" to get an idea of how bad it is becoming there. e.g.

https://www.thelocal.it/20200311/hos...virus-outbreak
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  #3008  
Old 13.03.2020, 21:26
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Re: Coronavirus

I've just been over to Geant/Casino in St Louis.
The place was practically deserted, (ok, it was 8pm on a Friday eve) and fully stocked.
No shortage of anything. Even had plenty of hand sanitizer.
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  #3009  
Old 13.03.2020, 21:33
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Re: Coronavirus

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Perhaps some articles are sharing fake news, but that certainly doesn't mean that all of them are. Do a Google search for "doctors sharing stories from Milan" to get an idea of how bad it is becoming there. e.g.

https://www.thelocal.it/20200311/hos...virus-outbreak

Do you really think I need google to know how bad is back at home?
Bad is bad, fake is fake and doesn't help at all.
Read what I wrote and tell me if I have denied how bad is the situation.
Plus, I can confute the fake news, someone else can not confute what I'm saying without the need to use another fake, or biased, news.
Cui prodest?
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  #3010  
Old 13.03.2020, 21:35
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Re: Coronavirus

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Starts on the 4th here
And the 13th here.

Tom
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  #3011  
Old 13.03.2020, 21:40
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Re: Coronavirus

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...suggestions to the other nation to be more proactive than Italy..
This is important.

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..you seem to have the need to say that in Italy we are killing people...
No.
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  #3012  
Old 13.03.2020, 21:43
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Re: Coronavirus

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And the 13th here.

Tom
Same in VD. The schools closed here till April 30th. So the "holidays" aren't really happening, children are asked to stay home. Not travel nor mingle.
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  #3013  
Old 13.03.2020, 21:47
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Re: Coronavirus

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I'm Italian, I know this ''journalist'' and the, let say, biased newpapers is writing for. I find his article partially genuine, only when he speaks about personal feelings and suggestions to the other nation to be more proactive than Italy.


But again, you seem to have the need to say that in Italy we are killing people, or just let them die because we can not cope. More than a need, an urgence. And nothing, not even reference to people in charge, putting their face and name in public declaration to confute that seems to stop you. They will have to confront the truth in a few weeks if they are lying, your misterious sorces, the fake news makers and the ''journalists'' looking for clicks will never.
I don't think it was MusicChick who was saying that "in Italy we are killing people, or just let them die because we can not cope." This is what doctors in Milan have been saying. They're experiencing a shortage of breathing machines / ventilators in the hospitals there; and therefore, (sadly) not every patient can have one at this point.

This has nothing to do with trying to shame Italy. This has everything to do with a very real situation during a pandemic... A pandemic that no one seems to be well-prepared for.
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Old 13.03.2020, 21:55
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Re: Coronavirus

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Do you really think I need google to know how bad is back at home?
Bad is bad, fake is fake and doesn't help at all.
Read what I wrote and tell me if I have denied how bad is the situation.
Plus, I can confute the fake news, someone else can not confute what I'm saying without the need to use another fake, or biased, news.
Cui prodest?
If you're not there in Italy to experience it directly yourself, then where DO you get your information from in regard to the situations in hospitals there and what doctors are experiencing there... since you don't use the internet for obtaining information?

Yes, fake news exists and sadly, it is abundant and yes, it is annoying. But it's not always easy to decipher what is fake and what it not, and you can't simply pass off everything that you come across as being "fake" -- particularly not simply because it doesn't conform to your cognitive biases.
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Old 13.03.2020, 21:56
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Re: Coronavirus

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I don't think it was MusicChick who was saying that "in Italy we are killing people, or just let them die because we can not cope." This is what doctors in Milan have been saying. They're experiencing a shortage of breathing machines / ventilators in the hospitals there; and therefore, (sadly) not every patient can have one at this point.

This has nothing to do with trying to shame Italy. This has everything to do with a very real situation during a pandemic... A pandemic that no one seems to be well-prepared for.

No, this is what you understand reading the stuff MusicChick is contributing to spread, full of fake news, clickbaiting and exagerations.
So you are confirming my opinion.

Name a doctor (a real one) in Italy saying they are letting people die because of the shortage of breathing machines, if you can.
Experiencing a shortage means they must send people to other hospitals (triage) and/or find a way to adapt machines to IC who were no longer in use or not intended for that, this is what you do in an emergency. Funny when you see ER or Doctor House, scary when you really have to do that.
I really can not understand the need to push so hard against people struggling with something so big.
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Old 13.03.2020, 22:02
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Re: Coronavirus

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If you're not there in Italy to experience it directly yourself, then where DO you get your information from in regard to the situations in hospitals there and what doctors are experiencing there... since you don't use the internet for obtaining information?

Yes, fake news exists and sadly, it is abundant and yes, it is annoying. But it's not always easy to decipher what is fake and what it not, and you can't simply pass off everything that you come across as being "fake" -- particularly not simply because it doesn't conform to your cognitive biases.
Since I do not use Internet? I use Internet to confute the fake news I read here.
And when I use internet I look for people putting their names and faces declaring things, not the usual anonimous quoted by a journalist.


Again, read first what I wrote, I said fake when is proved fake. With google translate or deepl you can read what I linked and understand what is fake.


In any way, to know whats happening at home internet is not the only medium I use, there is still the phone with family and friends, there is the italian tv, there are newspapers....
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Old 13.03.2020, 22:03
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Re: Coronavirus

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Same in VD. The schools closed here till April 30th. So the "holidays" aren't really happening, children are asked to stay home. Not travel nor mingle.
Time to get to the woods and the countryside- go walking, cycling, watch nature- no need to stay inside.
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  #3018  
Old 13.03.2020, 22:07
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Re: Coronavirus

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I agree with your sentiments about the elderly. I myself fall into the at risk group due to age, although only just, and have been wondering what I could do to help.
I'm in the At Risk group - high blood pressure treated with ACE inhibitor. Please send chocolate.
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  #3019  
Old 13.03.2020, 22:07
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Re: Coronavirus

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No, this is what you understand reading the stuff MusicChick is contributing to spread, full of fake news, clickbaiting and exagerations.
So you are confirming my opinion.

Name a doctor (a real one) in Italy saying they are letting people die because of the shortage of breathing machines, if you can.
Experiencing a shortage means they must send people to other hospitals (triage) and/or find a way to adapt machines to IC who were no longer in use or not intended for that, this is what you do in an emergency. Funny when you see ER or Doctor House, scary when you really have to do that.
I really can not understand the need to push so hard against people struggling with something so big.
"Describing every available ventilator as “gold,” Macchini said the doctors and nurses working at his side are exhausted.
“I saw the tiredness on faces that didn’t know what it was despite the already exhausting workloads they had. I saw a solidarity of all of us who never failed to go to our internist colleagues to ask, ‘What can I do for you now?’
“Doctors who move beds and transfer patients, who administer therapies instead of nurses. Nurses with tears in their eyes because we can’t save everyone, and the vital parameters of several patients at the same time reveal an already marked destiny."

https://nypost.com/2020/03/10/italia...irus-thoughts/

Make of it what you will. I wasn't able to read whatever was in your other links because I am not fluent in Italian.
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  #3020  
Old 13.03.2020, 22:10
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Re: Coronavirus

It can get very boring for some people self-isolating - nevertheless there's always someone who will put their predicament
to song.



Covid-19 to the tune of Come on Eileen video
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