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Old 14.03.2020, 22:58
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Re: Coronavirus

From what I saw in Basel today, Switzerland is right royally fecked, with a capital F.
I scooted into Basel today on the bike to drop something off at UPC, and was somewhat surprised at the level of activity. Tons of old people out and about, plenty of people in the bars and cafes, market open. I'd say about 75% of normal activity.

No idea of personal space, as per usual.
This time next week there'll be drones watching us and the military on the streets if people don't rein it in. (or the week after, I'm not a clairvoyant).
Whatever is happening in Italy today, we'll be getting a taste of in a fortnight.
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  #3202  
Old 14.03.2020, 23:19
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Re: Coronavirus

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From what I saw in Basel today, Switzerland is right royally fecked, with a capital F.
I scooted into Basel today on the bike to drop something off at UPC, and was somewhat surprised at the level of activity. Tons of old people out and about, plenty of people in the bars and cafes, market open. I'd say about 75% of normal activity.

No idea of personal space, as per usual.
This time next week there'll be drones watching us and the military on the streets if people don't rein it in. (or the week after, I'm not a clairvoyant).
Whatever is happening in Italy today, we'll be getting a taste of in a fortnight.
Same observation down at this end of the country..

Close schools -- check
Work at home -- check
Wash hands -- check
Close ski stations -- check
Close my gym which only has 15 at a time -- check

Meanwhile
COOP -- Rammed
Migros -- Rammed
Bars -- normal
Facebook groups organising babysitting by teenagers out of school -- check
Do gooders offering to go around all of the elderly doing chores -- check
Lets get all of the kids together since they're not at school -- check
Look at me posting on facebook appearing to be helpful -- check
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Old 14.03.2020, 23:19
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Re: Coronavirus

Not sure if this has been posted already, so I will leave this here: https://www.hilf-jetzt.ch/

On this website you will find volunteers in your area that may be able to help you with any kind of assistance you may need during this time (shopping for vulnerable, taking care of errands, help to organize child care etc). Anyone, who wants to help can sign up there too and either join or open a new local branch.

In any case, please follow the official guidelines of the BAG and stay safe.
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  #3204  
Old 14.03.2020, 23:24
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Re: Coronavirus

As you can see Toilet Rolls have many uses during the current crisis:


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  #3205  
Old 14.03.2020, 23:44
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Re: Coronavirus

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I'm trying to decide how I feel about widespread testing. On the one hand, it seems like a good idea to test as many people as possible and get some statistics. On the other, this is clearly everywhere now and the test is expensive, so is it a decent ROI to test everyone possible?
Testing anyone who is in not in hospital being treated for serious symptoms is not only unhelpful but actually harmful at this point. It's not about the cost, it's about the risk of infecting uninfected people while administering the test. We don't have the capacity or the will to set up and run drive through centres staffed by people in hazmat suits like the Koreans are doing. Nor the ability to make only those who test positive self isolate properly while everyone else goes about their business. Nor the ability to trace and test contacts. We are now in a mitigation phase where everyone will be expected to self isolate as best as possible as though they are infected, whether they are or not. That's the point of closing non essential shops, closing borders, restricting movement, etc. This would be a good time to try not to break a limb or get any serious medical issue requiring skilled medical attention.

Last edited by sezegnin; 14.03.2020 at 23:54.
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Old 15.03.2020, 00:02
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Re: Coronavirus

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This was the scene at Rewe in Weil am Rhein this afternoon, a rush on flour and pasta.
So now I know what to stock up on
I was today late afternoon/early evening in Marktkauf in Weil-am-Rhein. Shelves with flour were completely empty. As well as shelves with rice (though expensive Uncle Ben's was defending the fort). Reasonably priced pasta also went away. I do not know for what reason but pasta sauces were on sale today and were also pretty cleaned up. Fruits and vegetables were full and fairly ok (I did not check potato). Meat and frozen things were there too (though here and there were notes like "Sorry article is not on stock" even on the full shelves!) I also noticed that cheap or reasonably priced things are gone. Expensive one still stay.
May be on Monday shop will fill up some shelves..
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Old 15.03.2020, 00:08
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Re: Coronavirus

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It seems to me that just about everyone does know some part of something about Corona, but [some of] the information is contradictory, so that it takes a bit of work to sift through the junk, the fake information and the placating nonsense, to try to find some sort of science, and even that is - by the admission of the researchers - incomplete, by a long way.

Some employers capitalize on this, or are just afraid of their businesses/services going down the drain, so they sigh and say: "Oh, well, just come to work." and some people have gone into complete self-quarantine even though they are neither sick nor in a high-risk group. Many are just overwhelmed, and quite a lot are a little scared, while others are indifferent, and some even think it's all a hype about nothing. Life's like that: there are always people on the extremes and a lot muddling along inbetween.

For myself, this is what I think I can distill about Covid19.


  1. Most people who get infected do not die.
  2. This virus is strong and travels fast, and mutates.
  3. If a lot of the population are a bit sick, and some are very sick, this is enough to stop basic services working. This is increasingly the case.
  4. Governments have chosen, probably too late, various degrees of lock-down and travel restrictions, many with loopholes, that seem to me aburdly lax.

As far as I have understood it, so far, the researchers do not yet know for certain whether, having once been infected, one can ever fully "get clean" or whether one can continue to infect others after having recovered, oneself. If many people get it, and can continue to pass it on even when they're feeling much better, that'll change the shape of our society on an ongoing basis, not just for a phase. If it turns out that once gets over it one becomes resistant and non-infectious, that'll be great news.

Precautions seem to be only in terms of washing hands, perhaps wearing masks when out, trying to eat healthily, reducing or quitting smoking, getting enough exercise and enough sleep, and generally avoiding contact and travel, unless essential. And buying in some stocks of basic foods that last. And, sometimes, reminding others of this.

Beyond that, also in doing whatever it takes (and each of us is different in this) to remain sane and reasonable, as far as possible. For me, that includes reading, but also listening to the very silly songs... somehow despite all the seriousness they make me chuckle, and that's gotta be good for my immune system.
Great post doropfiz. If you have the chance, please listen or watch the link lost_inbroad posted earlier. I will post again as the info regarding the nature of the virus and predicted outcome is informative:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3URhJx0NSw
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Old 15.03.2020, 00:08
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Re: Coronavirus

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We don't have the capacity or the will to set up and run drive through centres staffed by people in hazmat suits like the Koreans are doing.

How do you know this exactly?



According some of my former colleagues, the Irish defense forces have been moved to code yellow meaning they are in barracks ready for deployment within 24 hours notice. And according to one colleague in particular, who works in the Quartermasters, all permanent members have been issued with hazmat suits and they have ample suits available if needed.


Now I don't know, but given the level of spending we do, I'd expect the Swiss are at least as well kitted out.
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Old 15.03.2020, 00:13
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Re: Coronavirus

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How do you know this exactly?
Great question. Because we haven't done it yet, and it's now at least two weeks too late to start doing it. It's been 8 days since CH gave up on tracing contacts and controlling transmission, put up the white flag and switched focus to protecting the old and sick instead.
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Old 15.03.2020, 00:13
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Re: Coronavirus

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Testing anyone who is in not in hospital being treated for serious symptoms is not only unhelpful but actually harmful at this point. It's not about the cost, it's about the risk of infecting uninfected people while administering the test. We don't have the capacity or the will to set up and run drive through centres staffed by people in hazmat suits like the Koreans are doing. Nor the ability to make only those who test positive self isolate properly while everyone else goes about their business. Nor the ability to trace and test contacts. We are now in a mitigation phase where everyone will be expected to self isolate as best as possible as though they are infected, whether they are or not. That's the point of closing non essential shops, closing borders, restricting movement, etc. This would be a good time to try not to break a limb or get any serious medical issue requiring skilled medical attention.
I'm not convinced on this principle.. I get that testing everybody doesn't stop the spread of the virus, it doesn't' save the old people etc..

But while CH is reporting numbers like 1400 infected and 10 dead, people are just not taking it seriously .. Life is going on as normal with the minor inconvenience of some things closed.. Kids are out of school but people are now arranging gatherings of school kids for baby sittings, shopping, errands etc ..

The point here is isolation .. stay apart, keep distance, avoid people..

While CH is reporting low numbers people think there is no issue.. But there kinda is a problem here..
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  #3211  
Old 15.03.2020, 00:21
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Re: Coronavirus

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Great post doropfiz. If you have the chance, please listen or watch the link lost_inbroad posted earlier. I will post again as the info regarding the nature of the virus and predicted outcome is informative:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3URhJx0NSw
Yes, so far this seems to be one of the best overview videos, and from someone who knows what he is talking about.
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  #3212  
Old 15.03.2020, 00:37
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Re: Coronavirus

More Toilet roll shortage humour.

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Old 15.03.2020, 01:05
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Re: Coronavirus

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I'm not convinced on this principle.. I get that testing everybody doesn't stop the spread of the virus, it doesn't' save the old people etc..

But while CH is reporting numbers like 1400 infected and 10 dead, people are just not taking it seriously .. Life is going on as normal with the minor inconvenience of some things closed.. Kids are out of school but people are now arranging gatherings of school kids for baby sittings, shopping, errands etc ..

The point here is isolation .. stay apart, keep distance, avoid people..

While CH is reporting low numbers people think there is no issue.. But there kinda is a problem here..
To be honest with you I do see a great deal of change where I currently stay in ZH: more distance in public transport, people do not stand as close in grocery stores or when queuing etc - I do think though that the authorities should just close everything and just let grocery stores and pharmacies open and restrict movement to really prevent the virus from spreading.

About testing, when I last saw the numbers of people tested, Switzerland was actually testing more people per capita than most of the other countries. That was only from a few days ago (march 10th I believe), not sure how reliable this data was. I do believe that the new test developed by Roche will also help to get more people tested (in principle this test can on one machine run twice as many tests per day as all of Switzerland can do at the moment, this is if I remember the numbers correctly: 4000 tests per day on one of the Roche machines vs. 2000 tests that Switzerland can do at the moment per day.

Last edited by scipio; 15.03.2020 at 01:19.
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  #3214  
Old 15.03.2020, 01:18
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Re: Coronavirus

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To be honest with you I do see a great deal of change where I currently stay in ZH: more distance in public transport, people do not stand as close in grocery stores or when queuing etc - I do think though that the authorities should just close everything and just let grocery stores and pharmacies open and restrict movement to really prevent the virus from spreading.

About testing, when I last saw the numbers of people tested, Switzerland was actually testing more people per capita than most of the other countries. That was only from a few days ago (march 10th I believe), not sure how reliable this data was. I do believe that the new test developed by Roche will also help to get more people tested (in principle this test can on one machine run as many tests per day as all of Switzerland can do at the moment, this is if I remember the numbers correctly: 4000 tests per day on one of the Roche machines vs. 2000 tests that Switzerland can do at the moment per day).
The testing is done on a need to test basis. Coincidentally, Switzerland has at the moment the third highest infections per capita in the world. Only Italy and Norway have more people infected per capita.
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Old 15.03.2020, 01:29
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Re: Coronavirus

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The testing is done on a need to test basis. Coincidentally, Switzerland has at the moment the third highest infections per capita in the world. Only Italy and Norway have more people infected per capita.
Yes, one of the highest infection rates per capita - and if we believe the numbers of tests performed also one of the highest testing rates per capita.

The reality is: is up to now 2000 tests can be run per day (compare this to e.g. around 12k tests that Germany reported as their limit). Naturally one has to be smart with who will be able to get tested, e.g. high risk group, medical staff etc. The new and approved test by Roche will hopefully soon have an impact.
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Old 15.03.2020, 01:48
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Re: Coronavirus

John Travolta had to get a covid 19 test. The doctor examined him when the results came back, he told the media he was alright, he just had a Saturday night fever, and he'll be staying alive.
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Old 15.03.2020, 01:49
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Re: Coronavirus

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The testing is done on a need to test basis. Coincidentally, Switzerland has at the moment the third highest infections per capita in the world. Only Italy and Norway have more people infected per capita.
It is kind of a chicken and egg situation; countries like the US that do not do much testing find few cases.
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Old 15.03.2020, 02:20
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Re: Coronavirus

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How do you know this exactly?



According some of my former colleagues, the Irish defense forces have been moved to code yellow meaning they are in barracks ready for deployment within 24 hours notice. And according to one colleague in particular, who works in the Quartermasters, all permanent members have been issued with hazmat suits and they have ample suits available if needed.


Now I don't know, but given the level of spending we do, I'd expect the Swiss are at least as well kitted out.
The Vth Hospital Battalion was mobilised this weekend, so something is beginning in this direction. Of course the Swiss army could be tasked with doing the testing, their NBC kit is perfectly up to the task. The problem is the political will to use it, and the fact that it means calling up reservists, which will raise leftwing hackles as well as those of the business lobby.
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Old 15.03.2020, 04:24
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Re: Coronavirus

So my child has a high fever and is coughing. It all develops on Friday evening.
Call the usual pediatrician - nobody answers until the closing time.
Call the médecin de garde hotline:
- on Friday nobody answers (waiting for an hour)
- on Saturday there is a message about a call overload and it disconnects.

Calling a hospital:
- please call the médecin de garde hotline.
Once the hotline turned out too busy:
- don't come, unless there are "respiratory distress" symptoms.

I wish the authorities could request (some) of the cabinets to extend their working days in these times.
Otherwise how long am I supposed to wait with a child to check if it is "just" a flu or maybe as it happens there might be already issues with ears or something else requiring antibiotics?
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  #3220  
Old 15.03.2020, 04:47
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Re: Coronavirus

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So my child has a high fever and is coughing. It all develops on Friday evening.
Call the usual pediatrician - nobody answers until the closing time.
Call the médecin de garde hotline:
- on Friday nobody answers (waiting for an hour)
- on Saturday there is a message about a call overload and it disconnects.

Calling a hospital:
- please call the médecin de garde hotline.
Once the hotline turned out too busy:
- don't come, unless there are "respiratory distress" symptoms.

I wish the authorities could request (some) of the cabinets to extend their working days in these times.
Otherwise how long am I supposed to wait with a child to check if it is "just" a flu or maybe as it happens there might be already issues with ears or something else requiring antibiotics?
How old is the child?

When my children were younger we always got advice to ride it out for 3 days with simple antipiretics (And as little as possible as fever is trying to get rid of the virus/bacterial infection) and then go in to get checked after 3 days only if symptoms are not better. Unless of course you cannot keep fever down or respiratory distress etc.
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