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  #3701  
Old 16.03.2020, 21:33
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Re: Coronavirus

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Berset appelle à rester à la maison
Le ministre de la Santé dit que les Suisses peuvent aller faire leurs achats en gardant leurs distances mais qu'il faut impérativement que les personnes vulnérables restent à la maison. Il évoque notamment les personnes qui ont de l'hypertension, une maladie cardiaque, un cancer ou, tout simplement, plus de 65 ans.

Anybody above 65+ or younger with precondition HAS TO STAY AT HOME

Not walk their dogs, not take lunch, not wander up in the sticks, JUST STAY AT HOME
That bit in bold? Yeah, that's not what was said.

Old people (and young people with high blood pressure etc.) are not being commanded under pain of penalty under law to stay home. They are simply being strongly advised not to go out.
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  #3702  
Old 16.03.2020, 21:38
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Re: Coronavirus

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That bit in bold? Yeah, that's not what was said.

Old people (and young people with high blood pressure etc.) are not being commanded under pain of penalty under law to stay home. They are simply being strongly advised not to go out.
Not at all. Apparently if they have a dog they can walk it
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Old 16.03.2020, 21:41
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Re: Coronavirus

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That bit in bold? Yeah, that's not what was said.

Old people (and young people with high blood pressure etc.) are not being commanded under pain of penalty under law to stay home. They are simply being strongly advised not to go out.
Yeah, and that attitude is exactly that which will lead to curfews, quarantines and marshal law. Just keep justifying things to keep going as normal.

Keep calm and carry on IS EXACTLY THE ATTITUDE THAT GOT US IN THIS SHIT.

#Restecheztoi

P.S. Macron just announced (I guess we know who's running the EU right now) that the Schengen space and the EU is to be closed to all entry from external countries from tomorrow lunchtime, and that includes flights. EU nationals will be able to return (and I guess non-EU residents who live in EU countries, I doubt any EU country would ban them).
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  #3704  
Old 16.03.2020, 21:41
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Re: Coronavirus

"The head of the World Health Organization, Dr Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus, has implored governments to test more suspected cases, warning that they cannot fight the pandemic blindfolded. In a strongly-worded attack on governments which have neglected or held back testing, he said: “We have not seen an urgent enough escalation in testing, isolation and contact tracing, which is the backbone of the response.”

"The US president, Donald Trump, is announcing more radical White House recommendations; telling Americans to avoid any gatherings of more than 10 people over the next 15 days and advising all states with evidence of community transmission to close down bars, restaurants, gyms and other facilities."

"France will also be closing its borders, in coordination with other EU nations, Macron says."


"The European Union has proposed banning all but essential travel for 30 days. Egypt, Canada, and Malaysia have become the latest countries to close airports."


For those who think that is OK to allow contagion.

source:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/li...te-latest-news


And yes a G20 summit has been called. Is not what one little country decides (the crucial need to test), in this case all the measures about borders come first from the EU than from CH surprisingly keeping the "borders open" for the spread to happen... herd immunity or plain fear to respond quickly?

Contagion happens exponentially, so keeping open for so long International Air travel was a big mistake. No matter the personal impression shared before that was close to "I saw very little people at the airport"....

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graph...ona-simulator/
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  #3705  
Old 16.03.2020, 21:44
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Re: Coronavirus

"Si vous avez plus de 65 ans, même si vous êtes en santé, restez à la maison" (if you are you are 65+, even if you are healthy, stay at home)

"Ce que j'aimerais faire passer comme message, puisque je suis à l'antenne, c'est de demander aux personnes âgées de plus de 65 ans, y compris celles qui sont en santé, de rester à domicile, d'éviter à tout prix de sortir" (What i want to pass on as a message, to ask to people 65+, includng those in good health, is to stay at home and not to go out for any reason)

https://www.rts.ch/info/suisse/11166...a-maison-.html

This is what the councilwoman of VD said.

But I guess this doesn't include those that have dogs to walk and eat lunch
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  #3706  
Old 16.03.2020, 21:45
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Re: Coronavirus

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There are cases in China, patients recovered, tested negative, released back home, and after a while tested positive again, although it's rare.

https://www.latimes.com/world-nation...-test-positive
This is the relevant text of the article. It might be an artifact of testing, not a reinfection. We simply do not know enough about immunity.
—————-_———————-_————————————————
What’s more likely is that people are being released from hospitals while still carrying dormant fragments of the disease that are not infectious but resemble the virus when put through a nucleic acid test, he said.

“The test may be positive, but the infection is not there,” he said.

Another possibility is that the level of virus fell below the threshold that tests could detect but then resurfaced, said Dr. Clifford Lane, deputy director for Clinical Research and Special Projects at the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases.

“So it looks like they cleared the virus and then the virus came back,” Lane said. “But they never really cleared it and they had a more prolonged course of infection.”

Lane was one of only two U.S. experts in a World Health Organization delegation that visited China in February. He said Chinese experts told the visitors that there were no examples of people who became “reinfected.”
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  #3707  
Old 16.03.2020, 21:49
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Re: Coronavirus

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@Kally, everyone was throwing the word lockdown, when we're not in a lockdown, nor a quarantine. But strongly advised to stay home. This weekend proved most people don't care. The Federal Council can now rule by decree, so expect further tightening including curfews, marshal law etc. But we're not there as of today. Thus caps. And I'll criticize this gov till they provide the data transparently to us, like a normal democracy should do, down to the town if not borough. If you think that's exagerated and unnecessary, then you don't understand the risk we lives with right now.
I'm a doctor, I understand the risks better than almost everybody in this thread and I face them at work. And yes, I expect further tightening of the rules will follow soon, although maybe not quite as far as martial law I would hope.
I don't see how that information will help you though, that's why I'm asking. We have the information if what worries you is that no one knows. But this information shouldn't impact your behavior since any way you should stay home no matter what and not have social contacts, so I don't understand why you want private information to be spread out in full vulnerability.
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  #3708  
Old 16.03.2020, 21:52
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Re: Coronavirus

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But I guess this doesn't include those that have dogs to walk and eat lunch
Can you see the difference between a town centre and its shops full of old people together and a single old person out for a walk in the countryside, alone, with no one around?

Maybe you don't understand why people have been asked to stay indoors?

People are catching the virus from contact with other people, and not from fresh air, or fields, or clouds, or sunshine, or snow.
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  #3709  
Old 16.03.2020, 21:53
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Re: Coronavirus

the woman on TV clearly said 'dans les rues et les magasins de Lausanne' - streets and shops of Lausanne (or any town/village).

And restaurants are now closed- it was perfectly legal to go to a restaurant and have lunch today until 14.00. The owner is a friend- he insured no-one was in close proximity.

Rude PMs make no difference to the facts either.
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  #3710  
Old 16.03.2020, 21:54
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Re: Coronavirus

I liked this topic more when it was in one fontsize and we all used the same color and left the bold button unused.
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  #3711  
Old 16.03.2020, 21:58
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Re: Coronavirus

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I'm a doctor, I understand the risks better than almost everybody in this thread and I face them at work. And yes, I expect further tightening of the rules will follow soon, although maybe not quite as far as martial law I would hope.
I don't see how that information will help you though, that's why I'm asking. We have the information if what worries you is that no one knows. But this information shouldn't impact your behavior since any way you should stay home no matter what and not have social contacts, so I don't understand why you want private information to be spread out in full vulnerability.
Well Doctor, if we'd been told RIGHT FROM THE BEGINNING which towns were infected, maybe people could have, I dunno, just avoided them like the plague? I know this sounds daft to some, but if the towns/villages/boroughs had been quarantined on the first infection maybe YOU wouldn't be looking at being totally overworked or worse for the next few months. Information is key, and people knowing where not to go early on is important. But oh well, we're in a national state of emergency, so you can all shrug and go back to facing a lack of beds in hospitals for virus patients, let alone other ailments, having to rely on the army to back you up and facing the loss of some your workforce because they live abroad and abroad wants them back for their own emergency situation, thank you very much.

Your plans failed. There will be a reckoning on this, not now, but there will be. And failure to shutdown travel will be part of that postmortem, as will not telling people and not quarantining immediately. Don't think I'm the only one thinking this. You can groan me, I don't care.
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  #3712  
Old 16.03.2020, 21:59
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Re: Coronavirus

Berset

"Stay at home where possible, avoid contact with other people,"
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  #3713  
Old 16.03.2020, 22:01
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Re: Coronavirus

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Yeah, and that attitude is exactly that which will lead to curfews, quarantines and marshal law. Just keep justifying things to keep going as normal.
Old folk and people "at risk" are being strongly advised to stay at home. This is to protect themselves from themselves. It is really the individuals choice. There is no selfishness involved. It puts no-one else at risk.

People are being advised to apply social distancing. This is to protect others from themselves. To choose to do otherwise is anti-social, putting others at risk.

The attitudes that will end with curfew, enforced quarantines and martial law, are in breaching the latter category, not the former.
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Old 16.03.2020, 22:01
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Re: Coronavirus

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Can you see the difference between a town centre and its shops full of old people together and a single old person out for a walk in the countryside, alone, with no one around?

Maybe you don't understand why people have been asked to stay indoors?

People are catching the virus from contact with other people, and not from fresh air, or fields, or clouds, or sunshine, or snow.
Fully agree. Theres alot nonsense posts being thrown around here
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Old 16.03.2020, 22:03
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Re: Coronavirus

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Well Doctor, if we'd been told RIGHT FROM THE BEGINNING which towns were infected, maybe people could have, I dunno, just avoided them like the plague? I know this sounds daft to some, but if the towns/villages/boroughs had been quarantined on the first infection maybe YOU wouldn't be looking at being totally overworked or worse for the next few months. Information is key, and people knowing where not to go early on is important. But oh well, we're in a national state of emergency, so you can all shrug and go back to facing a lack of beds in hospitals for virus patients, let alone other ailments, having to rely on the army to back you up and facing the loss of some your workforce because they live abroad and abroad wants them back for their own emergency situation, thank you very much.

Your plans failed. There will be a reckoning on this, not now, but there will be. And failure to shutdown travel will be part of that postmortem, as will not telling people and not quarantining immediately. Don't think I'm the only one thinking this. You can groan me, I don't care.
Stop being so damn stubborn and annoying and start using your brain.

First of all we never have been able to make a list of all infections, simply due to many people not or hardly showing symptoms so those stay under the radar even tho they are also infectious. And secondly a list with infected areas gives a false sense of safety in the other areas where people thus would be more careless.
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  #3716  
Old 16.03.2020, 22:03
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Re: Coronavirus

Yes, I'm also amused how people start writing in bold letters, then red ones, then move on to red bold ones .... the new shouting?
Who will start with the red, bold capitals? This is an English forum, so lets take bets.
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Old 16.03.2020, 22:05
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Re: Coronavirus

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Yes, I'm also amused how people start writing in bold letters, then red ones, then move on to red bold ones .... the new shouting?
Who will start with the red, bold capitals? This is an English forum, so lets take bets.
Screaming is for the insecure is what my father told me, and up to today he's not proven wrong imho.
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Old 16.03.2020, 22:05
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Re: Coronavirus

We quarantined people in the early stages. The fact of the matter is, as soon as contagion starts happening within a community tracing and quarantine is doomed. This spread because people are contagious before they show symptoms and a lot of younger folks have little to no symptoms but are still contagious. The contagion started when people came back from vacations in Italy, where they had gone when the virus had not yet been diagnosed over there. "Fun" fact, the first patient in Italy was diagnosed because they were not getting better and they had tested everything else so though "heh why not?" and looked for covid. No one knew it was there, circulating among the population, until it was far too late to contain, over there and over here.

Is this situation we are in now awful? Yes. Cuold it have been avoided? Probably. Would the draconian measures required as soon as China finally admitted their problem have been tolerated by the population? Absolutely not. And thus they would have failed. Democracy and freedom are beautiful, but they also have downsides.
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Old 16.03.2020, 22:06
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Re: Coronavirus

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...so I don't understand why you want private information to be spread out in full vulnerability.
Hello Kally and please help me understand your words.

Do you mean that testing as many people as the system allows (in a country that produces the test) and sharing the result of such process openly (with other countries) is information that should not be collected even less shared?

I think is not a question of exposing names and addresses of people. Is about getting to understand how the virus spreads, affects the body and when and where it recedes... you know better, you are the professional on the field.
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Old 16.03.2020, 22:07
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Re: Coronavirus

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Yes, I'm also amused how people start writing in bold letters, then red ones, then move on to red bold ones .... the new shouting?
Who will start with the red, bold capitals? This is an English forum, so lets take bets.
Yes. My red blobs scare alot of people
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