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  #4921  
Old 23.03.2020, 19:32
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Re: Coronavirus

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When will these measures actually be lifted?

If you think it is safe but miss 5 cases, you can have a whole new pandemic.

Wouldn't it be better to just let it happen and get it over with, as it's out of control anyway? I'm more and more thinking that this is better than living in fear and destroying the economy.
The thing is, while it is this active, doctors, hospitals, machinery is lacking.
With time they will find a way to hospitalize more people (I'm surprised they did not mention "Zivilschutzunterkünfte" (civil defence quarters) yet - or have they? They will also stock more equipment.
I guess they hope the above will happen while the curve goes down = corona can be dealt with more organized than just now.

An other thing that crossed my mind is the trust. When will people shake hands again? How long until my mates give me those bear-hugs, which I admit I miss, again? Ever? (I don't mind if those who somehow catch me by surprise with their silly three kisses never return to that habit, though ). Will strangers keep keeping 2m distance? (Fine by me too, LOL, I get clausterphobic easily). For always?

I'm trying to remember how the swine-flu panic ended. For the life of me I can not remember. Does anybody?
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  #4922  
Old 23.03.2020, 19:33
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Re: Coronavirus

Especially in places like CH where testing is not routine, only for certain groups etc.. Looking at numbers of infected, per population, demographics etc is totally pointless, it does not give us a view of how much of a crisis we face.
We could have a million infected and they're all doing fine with a parecetemol and a few days rest.

To me, a more useful measure would be something like how many people are critically ill in intensive care and how many intensive care spaces are left.
Ive seen some reports on number of serious cases but as many have said, the real crisis comes when the care system is overwhelmed, showing that number would maybe help drill home the seriousness.. (or lack thereof)
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  #4923  
Old 23.03.2020, 19:36
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Re: Coronavirus

In Madrid they can't burn the bodies fast enough, so they've resorted to storing them on the floor of an ice skating rink.

https://www.elmundo.es/madrid/2020/0...0328b465c.html

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  #4924  
Old 23.03.2020, 19:42
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Re: Coronavirus

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In the Black Death of the 1300's most of Europe was wiped out and a New Age began. Is that what is needed here?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Death#Social
Wonder how EF will look in a few months

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So much for the European dream...

Italy wonders where Europe’s solidarity is as coronavirus strains show

Germany blocks exports of medical supplies to Rome

When Italy asked for urgent medical supplies under a special European crisis mechanism no EU country responded.

Fearful of its own shortages, Germany initially banned the export of medical masks and other protective gear. 3M, a producer, said the German restrictions had made it impossible to supply the Italian market.

Only 3 countries have sent support to Italy: Russia, China and Cuba
Yeah, well, not new. I commented on that ..... 2 weeks ago? They refused to export their stuff to "their own EU people" and they refused to let goods ordered and paid by non EU countries pass.
I read, the company producing those respiration apparatus in Switzerland (they work 24/7 now) had Italy's order on their list first. (With the US further down on that list).

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...or, we can just destroy nature. Like that, we don't have to worry about nature destroying us. Simples, really! Can't believe nobody else came up with that ingenious plot.
You missed it? They're working on that for a long time now. You think they will get it over and done with now in one (last) go?
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  #4925  
Old 23.03.2020, 20:45
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Re: Coronavirus

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When will these measures actually be lifted?

If you think it is safe but miss 5 cases, you can have a whole new pandemic.

Wouldn't it be better to just let it happen and get it over with, as it's out of control anyway? I'm more and more thinking that this is better than living in fear and destroying the economy.
The problem with "let it happen" approach is people would label it as "mass murder".

Why?

Because the hospitals would soon get overloaded and people who could have been saved would be turned away to die, in Switzerland possibly as many as half a million?
The reason for this high number is the current death rate percentage is based on all the people who are seriously ill getting into a hospital for treatment and so many of them are saved.
Without any hospital treatment, many more of the seriously ill would die.
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  #4926  
Old 23.03.2020, 20:56
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Re: Coronavirus

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I don't think our healthcare system could handle so many people suffering severe symptoms at one time. I watched a documentary last night about what happens (or what can happen) to your lungs and immune system when you get this virus. It's NOT pretty. Also, there is some evidence that you can get the virus more than once (apparently, your immunity to it may only last for a certain period of time, after recovery). I guess the virus can also cause long-term or permanent lung damage. I don't think this is something that we want the majority of people to have.
I have mentioned that (got lost in the long thread), that I wonder how many infected cases (active and recovered) developed fibrosis. There are still people who recovered from SARS suffering from long-term lung damage till now. Not being able to take the stairs, no sports, who knows, maybe can't even bang bang too hard. This could happen to both young and old people, so it's not just about death rates.

Perhaps not being able to bang might motivate people to do their quarantine more seriously? jk...
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  #4927  
Old 23.03.2020, 21:02
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Re: Coronavirus

Looking at the data of new cases from across Europe, it seems highly likely we've just hit the peak. If everyone carries on with the social distancing we should be back to a (slightly more anxious and handwashy) normal in a month or so.
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  #4928  
Old 23.03.2020, 21:15
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Re: Coronavirus

https://www.worldometers.info/corona...country/spain/

Here's the data (I link to Spain as an example, but similar patterns in France, Germany, Italy and the UK).

I'd like to see another good day or two, but it's looking good.
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  #4929  
Old 23.03.2020, 21:31
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Re: Coronavirus

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https://www.worldometers.info/corona...country/spain/

Here's the data (I link to Spain as an example, but similar patterns in France, Germany, Italy and the UK).

I'd like to see another good day or two, but it's looking good.

I hope it's true, but I'm wondering if it's because many countries seemingly have given up on wide testing?
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  #4930  
Old 23.03.2020, 21:35
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Re: Coronavirus

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In Madrid they can't burn the bodies fast enough, so they've resorted to storing them on the floor of an ice skating rink.

https://www.elmundo.es/madrid/2020/0...0328b465c.html

Not a good idea as they learned at Lockerbie


Horroble for any of the family!
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  #4931  
Old 23.03.2020, 21:40
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Re: Coronavirus

Johnson just announced lock down for UK.
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  #4932  
Old 23.03.2020, 21:41
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Re: Coronavirus

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How can vulnerable people get in contact with you when you are sitting at home?

If you ignore the advice, leave your home and contact vulnerable people then you are definitely 100% responsible.
I think everyone should be worried for themselves and their family first, because no matter what it's known for the moment, no age group is risk free.

The biggest communication mistake so far, in my opinion, was telling people to protect "the vulnerable". I agree with the idea, of course, but it gives people a false sense of security. Everyone is vulnerable. Do it for yourself and for everyone else.
Stay home, we're living in an era when it's easy to do so.

All these phantasmagoric ideas to let the virus pass through the whole population contradict all the findings in dealing with pandemics of such scale. It contradicts China's, South-Korea, Singapore's etc etc experiences. Everything people whose opinions count or should count, know.
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  #4933  
Old 23.03.2020, 21:42
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Re: Coronavirus

UK now on lockdown. I thought Boris Johnson came over quite well and was clear on what is meant ie allowed out once a day for exercise, for example.
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  #4934  
Old 23.03.2020, 21:43
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Re: Coronavirus

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I hope it's true, but I'm wondering if it's because many countries seemingly have given up on wide testing?
Early days but deaths also seem to be going in the right direction, certainly in Italy. By the end of the week things should be clearer. I just posted now to try and inject some positivity.
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  #4935  
Old 23.03.2020, 21:50
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Re: Coronavirus

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Johnson just announced lock down for UK.
  • All non-essential shops to shut, as wells as gyms etc. (Just like here)
  • Only permitted to leave the house for shopping, going to and from work (if essential), medical reasons (including helping someone who is unable to leave their home) and one form of exercise per day (cycling, running, walking).
  • Public gatherings of more than 2 people prohibited. (people within same household excepted)
  • Parks remain open for the purpose of exercise.
  • Police to be given the power to enforce the rules.
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  #4936  
Old 23.03.2020, 21:59
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Re: Coronavirus

Perfect. Its best to get that infection rate down further even if it's below 1. I don't see the benefit in a complete lockdown that doesn't allow people to get some fresh air.
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  #4937  
Old 23.03.2020, 22:06
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Re: Coronavirus

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https://www.worldometers.info/corona...country/spain/

Here's the data (I link to Spain as an example, but similar patterns in France, Germany, Italy and the UK).

I'd like to see another good day or two, but it's looking good.
Watch Sweden and the UK over the next week or two. They both seem headed for complete chaos.
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  #4938  
Old 23.03.2020, 22:20
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Re: Coronavirus

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Looking at the data of new cases from across Europe, it seems highly likely we've just hit the peak. If everyone carries on with the social distancing we should be back to a (slightly more anxious and handwashy) normal in a month or so.
Meanwhile
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The World Health Organization (WHO) has warned that the coronavirus disease pandemic is "accelerating", with more than 300,000 cases now confirmed.

It took 67 days from the first reported of Covid-19 to reach 100,000 cases, 11 days for the second 100,000, and just four days for the third 100,000.
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  #4939  
Old 23.03.2020, 22:24
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Re: Coronavirus

Well it's time to go through a British Childrens Nursery Rhyme with it's deadly historical backgound and meaning.
Here's The Great Plague of London from 1665-1666 summed up in the Childrens nursery - Ring a Ring o' Roses.


Ring a Ring o' Roses - originated in The Great Plague of London

Wiki - Whats the meaning of Ring a Ring o' Roses ?
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  #4940  
Old 23.03.2020, 22:31
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Re: Coronavirus

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Looking at the data of new cases from across Europe, it seems highly likely we've just hit the peak. If everyone carries on with the social distancing we should be back to a (slightly more anxious and handwashy) normal in a month or so.
Absolute minimum 3 months. And still pretty heavy restrictions beyond that imo
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