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  #6041  
Old 02.04.2020, 17:39
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Re: Coronavirus

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How will people survive without the economy?

The economy and the government don't exist outside any of us in some abstract vaccum. Easy to say "the government just needs pay some money to the people who lost their jobs". That's an enormously simplified view. The government is eventually all of us and if fewer people can pay into the system, there'll be fewer funds available to "just pay". While this may still work in Switzerland to an extent and for a while, it won't work everywhere. Matter of fact it won't work in most countries. It costs millions and billions every single day to keep a country on lockdown.

And there's no universal agreement that this was the way to go to begin with.

Been preaching that for weeks to no avail...
Governments can always just print money.
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  #6042  
Old 02.04.2020, 17:42
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Re: Coronavirus

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Governments can always just print money.
Yes, Zimbabwe and Venezuela are good examples
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  #6043  
Old 02.04.2020, 17:43
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Re: Coronavirus

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Governments can always just print money.
I really, really, really hope this was sarcasm.
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  #6044  
Old 02.04.2020, 17:44
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Re: Coronavirus

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Governments can always just print money.
The good old Mugabe solution.
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  #6045  
Old 02.04.2020, 17:45
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Re: Coronavirus

Basel Stadt - 27 new cases.
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  #6046  
Old 02.04.2020, 17:46
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Re: Coronavirus

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Governments can always just print money.
oh noooooooo, you just invoked the Bitcoin weirdos
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  #6047  
Old 02.04.2020, 17:47
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Re: Coronavirus

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The good old Mugabe solution.
When I was in Zimbabwe, people tried to sell me "billions" of Zimbabwean dollars. I'm like yeah uhm thanks no, I know this is like 10 cents and will be about 1 cent an hour from now
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  #6048  
Old 02.04.2020, 17:56
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Re: Coronavirus

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I'm sure smart guys at the ETH will estimate and calculate the odds and advise the government on what's best to do
Maybe not the ETH. But the USZ is developing an anti-Körper test, that looks promising. Apologies to anyone that can‘t be bothered to register for a free trial period on the TA:

https://www.tagesanzeiger.ch/wie-zuv...s-201604237929
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  #6049  
Old 02.04.2020, 17:59
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Re: Coronavirus

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Maybe have a look at what is happening in the US? 40% of hospitalised patients under 55. Yes, they're tending to survive (or at least are less likely to die than older people). But they need that hospital treatment to do so.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...icans-covid-19
This is a fantastic example of media pushing you to think what THEY want you to think IRRELEVANT of what the actual research claims. Now, bear with me for a second.

Article title: Is coronavirus hitting young Americans harder than we thought?

A bit alarmist, makes you think, omg, this goes against what we thought. Then they cite a research paper. The DON'T QUOTE, they interpret the data for you. Now, when I was doing my PhD this would have been revise and resubmit. Let me QUOTE the ACTUAL RESEARCH (link is in the alarmist article you posted btw)

"...fatality was highest in persons aged ≥85, ranging from 10% to 27%, followed by 3% to 11% among persons aged 65–84 years, 1% to 3% among persons aged 55-64 years, <1% among persons aged 20–54 years, and no fatalities among persons aged ≤19 years.


Harder than we thought?!!? 1-3% and below 1%? C'mon.

Ok, back to my popcorn, your turn
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  #6050  
Old 02.04.2020, 18:02
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Re: Coronavirus

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... it was well known by scientists that we will be confronted with a pandemic sooner or later, as they knew very well about coronaviruses etc yet we did nothing.
October 2016, the UK performed 'Exercise Cygnus' to test the impact of a hypothetical pandemic on the UK. The results are still largely confidential, but it was decided that the measures that needed to be taken in preparation for an inevitable pandemic, were too expensive. Too busy spouting money up the wall on 'other issues'. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exercise_Cygnus
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Or how do people think parts of Asia and LatAm, not to mention Africa, will fare in an extended lockdown?
Well it's not going too well in Alexandra, Guateng. OH's family business was in Kew, less than 4km from Alexandra, and he still follows IOL daily.
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How will people survive without the economy?
You can rebuild an economy. You can't raise the dead. Tough vs impossible.
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  #6051  
Old 02.04.2020, 18:03
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Re: Coronavirus

And I mean this: https://www.france24.com/en/20200402...down-violators is also a totally reasonable approach. So lemme get that straight - in the name of "saving" people, you can shoot others? That makes uhm, yeah, a whole lot of sense. Not.



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You can rebuild an economy. You can't raise the dead. Tough vs impossible.
Come on. It's not like half the world population has been eradicated, and it very very likely wouldn't have been even if the world had not gone into shutdown.

Further, the large majority of those who pass away from this virus (or underlying conditions made worse by it) are > 75. How many of those are in the active workforce?

It also takes quite a bit of effort to rebuild an economy that has been shot to sh. And of course there'll be no money. So I guess good luck?

Last edited by Samaire13; 02.04.2020 at 18:28.
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  #6052  
Old 02.04.2020, 18:03
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Re: Coronavirus

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I really, really, really hope this was sarcasm.
You think this is better?
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U.S. forecast to sell more than $2 trillion of short-term debt in 2020 to finance stimulus

In the last three days, sales of short-term Treasury bills have already run close to $280 billion
Source
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  #6053  
Old 02.04.2020, 18:08
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Re: Coronavirus

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How will people survive without the economy?

The economy and the government don't exist outside any of us in some abstract vaccum. Easy to say "the government just needs pay some money to the people who lost their jobs". That's an enormously simplified view. The government is eventually all of us and if fewer people can pay into the system, there'll be fewer funds available to "just pay". While this may still work in Switzerland to an extent and for a while, it won't work everywhere. Matter of fact it won't work in most countries. It costs millions and billions every single day to keep a country on lockdown.

And there's no universal agreement that this was the way to go to begin with.

Been preaching that for weeks to no avail...
This. The state is us. If the state must pay something it means we must. If we can't, the state therefore can't. The government here is just the general manager.

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Governments can always just print money.
Sure. You'll have to move though, won't happen here.
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  #6054  
Old 02.04.2020, 18:09
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Re: Coronavirus

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This is a fantastic example of media pushing you to think what THEY want you to think IRRELEVANT of what the actual research claims. Now, bear with me for a second.

Article title: Is coronavirus hitting young Americans harder than we thought?

A bit alarmist, makes you think, omg, this goes against what we thought. Then they cite a research paper. The DON'T QUOTE, they interpret the data for you. Now, when I was doing my PhD this would have been revise and resubmit. Let me QUOTE the ACTUAL RESEARCH (link is in the alarmist article you posted btw)

"...fatality was highest in persons aged ≥85, ranging from 10% to 27%, followed by 3% to 11% among persons aged 65–84 years, 1% to 3% among persons aged 55-64 years, <1% among persons aged 20–54 years, and no fatalities among persons aged ≤19 years.


Harder than we thought?!!? 1-3% and below 1%? C'mon.

Ok, back to my popcorn, your turn
Baboon posted "40% of hospitalised patients under 55, and they are tending to survive"
How is this different from your post? It was not claimed young people are dying?
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  #6055  
Old 02.04.2020, 18:10
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Re: Coronavirus

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And I mean this: https://www.france24.com/en/20200402...down-violators is also a totally reasonable approach. So lemme get that straight - in the name of "saving" people, you can shoot others? That makes uhm, yeah, a whole lot of sense. Not.





Oh come on. You do realize that not half the world population has been eradicated, and very very likely wouldn't have been even if the world had not gone into shutdown?

Further, the large majority of those who pass away from this virus (or underlying conditions made worse by it) are > 75. How many of those are in the active workforce?

Beyond that, if you think you can "just restart" an economy, I would suggest to read up on some previous examples of how long that tends to take.

Jesus Christ. "Just print money", "just pay money to all the unemployed", "just restart the economy". All easy-peasy. This is a whole new level of naivete.
Italy has asked EU to hurry up and issue corona bonds.
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  #6056  
Old 02.04.2020, 18:12
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Re: Coronavirus

A good vid of a leading Korean expert elaborating on COVID. Apparently, even though typically transmission occurs via droplets, the virus CAN get airborne if, for example, an infected person coughs or shouts or just talks loudly and the environment is dry (indoors in winter-early spring?) then projecting droplets dry up as they are flying through the air and shrink enough to be able to become airborne.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gAk7...ature=youtu.be
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  #6057  
Old 02.04.2020, 18:14
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Re: Coronavirus

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Baboon posted "40% of hospitalised patients under 55, and they are tending to survive"
How is this different from your post? It was not claimed young people are dying?

Article title: Is coronavirus hitting young Americans harder than we thought?

Article text suggests IT DOES

Actual linked research suggest, NO, IT DOESN'T

But then again, this is like football fans, it has become an emotional topic, not a rational one and i understand that rational arguments are not appreciated here. Again, apologies for crashing your party.
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  #6058  
Old 02.04.2020, 18:14
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Re: Coronavirus

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Italy has asked EU to hurry up and issue corona bonds.
Of course it has. And next will be Spain, then France, and a bunch of others.

The EU is done now anyway though. Actually I guess that makes it even worse cause who will pay?

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You think this is better?

Source
I really am not going to bother to explain one of the most basic of economic processes. If you don't understand that "just printing more money" is not an option, I'm afraid I can't help you.
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  #6059  
Old 02.04.2020, 18:19
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Re: Coronavirus

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You can rebuild an economy. You can't raise the dead. Tough vs impossible.
By the looks of it by the time we start rebuilding the economy those saved from the measures will die anyway

"Imperial College London modelling, used to inform government, has suggested 500,000 could have died by August in the UK if the virus was left to rip through the population.

It also warned the government's previous strategy to slow the spread by asking those with symptoms to self-isolate and shield the most vulnerable could have led to 250,000 deaths.

Now, it is hoped the lockdown will limit deaths to 20,000.

But that does not mean 480,000 lives are being saved - many will die whether or not they get the virus.

Every year, about 600,000 people in the UK die. And the frail and elderly are most at risk, just as they are if they have coronavirus.

Nearly 10% of people aged over 80 will die in the next year, Prof Sir David Spiegelhalter, at the University of Cambridge, points out, and the risk of them dying if infected with coronavirus is almost exactly the same.
"

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-51979654
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Old 02.04.2020, 18:26
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Re: Coronavirus

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Of course it has. And next will be Spain, then France, and a bunch of others.

The EU is done now anyway though.
It has been for a while.

Looks like Sweden will not be but that's because I think they do not purposely let the public know about what will come up in 3-4 wks. It is transparent to me.
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