Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Living in Switzerland > Daily life  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #6601  
Old 08.04.2020, 00:19
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: CH
Posts: 10,849
Groaned at 346 Times in 282 Posts
Thanked 15,882 Times in 8,108 Posts
greenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
FFS, 1) the guy is a billionaire 2) presidents are not allowed to own shares 3) have we got so cynical as to think that even Trump would use a global pandemic to bogusly ramp a share price?

People exasperate me sometimes.
I don't know about Trump but yes, I do believe some people will profit from this pandemic. It is well known that some fortunes are made during wars, revolutions etc. i.e. "muddy" times.

Quote:
1) do you think billionaires don't like making money?
For some it's their "raison d'être".
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank greenmount for this useful post:
  #6602  
Old 08.04.2020, 08:24
TonyClifton's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Hopefully soon to be Aargau
Posts: 1,676
Groaned at 589 Times in 336 Posts
Thanked 4,106 Times in 1,724 Posts
TonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Trouble at the mill.

President Trump has threatened to stop funding the WHO and the EU science chief resigned over the EUs coronavirus response.

Quote:
EU science chief resigns with blast at coronavirus response

European Research Council’s Mauro Ferrari hits out at lack of co-ordinated action on Covid-19

The president of the European Research Council — the EU’s top scientist — has resigned after failing to persuade Brussels to set up a large-scale scientific programme to fight Covid-19.

Professor Mauro Ferrari, who started a four-year term as leader of Europe’s flagship scientific institution on January 1, submitted his resignation toEU commission president Ursula von der Leyen on Tuesday afternoon.

“I have been extremely disappointed by the European response to Covid-19,” he said in a statementto the Financial Times.“I arrived at the ERC a fervent supporter of the EU [but] the Covid-19 crisis completely changed my views, though the ideals of international collaboration I continue to support with enthusiasm.”

The ERC, set up in 2007 to fund Europe’s best scientists, has become one of the world’s most prestigious funding agencies with a budget of around €2bn a year.

Prof Ferrari,an Italian-American pioneer of nanomedicine, said his rift with theEuropean Commission started in early March“as it became evident that the pandemic would be a tragedy of possibly unprecedented proportions”.

He said he proposed then to set up a special ERC programme to combat Covid-19.“I thought that at a time like this, the very best scientists in the world should be provided with resources and opportunities to fight the pandemic, with new drugs, new vaccines, new diagnostic tools, new behavioural dynamic approaches based on science, to replace the oft-improvised intuitions of political leaders,” he said.

But the ERC Scientific Council, its governing body, unanimously rejected the idea, he said, on the grounds that its remit allows it only to fund“bottom-up” research proposed by scientists, rather than larger “top-down” programmes with objectives set by EU leaders.

“I argued that this was not the time for scientific governance to worry excessively about the subtleties of the distinctions between bottom-up versus top-down research,” said Prof Ferrari, who spent much of his career as a prominent cancer researcher in the US.

He said he got a second chance when Ms von der Leyen asked him for his views on addressing the pandemic. He then developed a plan “to which she contributed substantial directives”.

“The very fact that I worked directly with her created an internal political thunderstorm,” he said.“The proposal was passed on todifferent layers of European Commission administration, where I believe it disintegrated upon impact.”

The commission confirmed thatProf Ferrari had stepped down but did not respond to a request for further comment.

Prof Ferrari lamented “the complete absence of co-ordination of healthcare policies among member states, the recurrent opposition to cohesive financial support initiatives, the pervasive one-sided border closures” in the EU.

The pandemic has stoked tensions within the bloc and led to criticism that some EU countries have failed to co-operate or show solidarity with those hit hardest by coronavirus.

Janez Lenarcic, the EU’s crisis management commissioner, said on Tuesday that member states had initially not offered the help needed by Italy as the death toll there soared.

“There was an inadequate response to the Italian request for assistance from other EU member states,” he told reporters in Brussels on Tuesday, as he unveiled a plan to dispatch doctors and nurses from Romania and Norway to Italy. “But things have changed now.”

With the commission’s agreement, Prof Ferrari remained a part-time affiliate professor at the University of Washington School of Pharmacy in Seattle after he became ERC president. He plans now to set up an international research initiative to fight Covid-19 from the US.
https://www.ft.com/content/f94725c8-...6-2e046ae78e95
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank TonyClifton for this useful post:
  #6603  
Old 08.04.2020, 08:26
MusicChick's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: La Cote
Posts: 17,489
Groaned at 414 Times in 275 Posts
Thanked 20,428 Times in 10,577 Posts
MusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
Trouble at the mill.

President Trump has threatened to stop funding the WHO and the EU science chief resigned over the EUs coronavirus response.

https://www.ft.com/content/f94725c8-...6-2e046ae78e95
I am not surprised at all.
Reply With Quote
  #6604  
Old 08.04.2020, 08:36
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 8,486
Groaned at 299 Times in 228 Posts
Thanked 19,509 Times in 6,795 Posts
k_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
Trouble at the mill.

President Trump has threatened to stop funding the WHO and the EU science chief resigned over the EUs coronavirus response.



https://www.ft.com/content/f94725c8-...6-2e046ae78e95
So in Trump logic: the US-paid WHO focused on China only. US immediately took appropriate measures but other countries didn't, so now US is the most affected country - despite the US' exemplary behavior.
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank k_and_e for this useful post:
  #6605  
Old 08.04.2020, 08:38
gaburko's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: BL
Posts: 1,091
Groaned at 164 Times in 111 Posts
Thanked 2,920 Times in 1,062 Posts
gaburko has a reputation beyond reputegaburko has a reputation beyond reputegaburko has a reputation beyond reputegaburko has a reputation beyond reputegaburko has a reputation beyond reputegaburko has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post

President Trump has threatened to stop funding the WHO and the EU science chief resigned over the EUs coronavirus response.



https://www.ft.com/content/f94725c8-...6-2e046ae78e95
Sanity gradually replacing alarmism. Both the WHO and Ferrari have been promulgating selective data samples and grossly overestimated extrapolations to drive us to this point. Luckily, the data coming through is confronting them and they are now facing the music. Just notice the significantly reduced projections in the US. They are not surprisingly called "dramatic reduction"

https://www.nationalreview.com/corne...r-projections/
Reply With Quote
  #6606  
Old 08.04.2020, 09:02
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 11,148
Groaned at 511 Times in 434 Posts
Thanked 20,073 Times in 10,576 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
Sanity gradually replacing alarmism. Both the WHO and Ferrari have been promulgating selective data samples and grossly overestimated extrapolations to drive us to this point. Luckily, the data coming through is confronting them and they are now facing the music. Just notice the significantly reduced projections in the US. They are not surprisingly called "dramatic reduction"

https://www.nationalreview.com/corne...r-projections/
You are disappointed that the "social distancing" strategy is working better than hoped in many countries?

When and where did Ferrari make overestimated extrapolations or indeed any COV-19 forecasts?
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank marton for this useful post:
  #6607  
Old 08.04.2020, 09:06
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 11,148
Groaned at 511 Times in 434 Posts
Thanked 20,073 Times in 10,576 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
Trouble at the mill.

President Trump has threatened to stop funding the WHO and the EU science chief resigned over the EUs coronavirus response.
In the same news conference, Trump backtracked on his threat when he was asked if it was an appropriate time to withdraw funds in the middle of a pandemic!

It was already explained to you that EU health issues are still primarily a member state responsibility. Seems Ferrari did not get the memo!
Reply With Quote
  #6608  
Old 08.04.2020, 09:09
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 11,148
Groaned at 511 Times in 434 Posts
Thanked 20,073 Times in 10,576 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
1) do you think billionaires don't like making money? 2) that's absolute nonsense—google Trump's financial disclosures from 2016 onwards 3) yes. When it comes to money, the man is totally unscrupulous, indeed, has always been so.
According to estimates by Forbes magazine, Trump is already over a billion down due to the coronavirus impact on his business.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank marton for this useful post:
  #6609  
Old 08.04.2020, 09:23
gaburko's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: BL
Posts: 1,091
Groaned at 164 Times in 111 Posts
Thanked 2,920 Times in 1,062 Posts
gaburko has a reputation beyond reputegaburko has a reputation beyond reputegaburko has a reputation beyond reputegaburko has a reputation beyond reputegaburko has a reputation beyond reputegaburko has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
You are disappointed that the "social distancing" strategy is working better than hoped in many countries?

When and where did Ferrari make overestimated extrapolations or indeed any COV-19 forecasts?
The current bunch of alarmists will explain why their projections are NOT working by taking credit for whatever they can spin in their favor. The facts are absolutely irrelevant in this, twisting facts is.

And no, I am not disappointed, I was never worried to begin with.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank gaburko for this useful post:
  #6610  
Old 08.04.2020, 09:39
V__'s Avatar
V__ V__ is offline
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Lausanne
Posts: 1,511
Groaned at 384 Times in 215 Posts
Thanked 2,082 Times in 866 Posts
V__ has a reputation beyond reputeV__ has a reputation beyond reputeV__ has a reputation beyond reputeV__ has a reputation beyond reputeV__ has a reputation beyond reputeV__ has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

While the new infected numbers in Switzerland are falling for 3 days in a row (even with increased testing), all those waiting for the wave of critical patients and overloaded hospitals, luckily have been wrong.

At the moment, Swiss doctors are going on unemployment because they have nothing else to do

What a paradox:

- 30% less patients than usual
- Utilization below 30%

https://www.20min.ch/schweiz/news/st...aeler-28949526

For 3 weeks we've been "10 days behind Italy". When can we finally say that the peak has passed?
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank V__ for this useful post:
  #6611  
Old 08.04.2020, 09:44
Samaire13's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: CH
Posts: 4,333
Groaned at 128 Times in 102 Posts
Thanked 7,258 Times in 2,761 Posts
Samaire13 has a reputation beyond reputeSamaire13 has a reputation beyond reputeSamaire13 has a reputation beyond reputeSamaire13 has a reputation beyond reputeSamaire13 has a reputation beyond reputeSamaire13 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

I've been openly suspicious from the start and have made no secret of that.

And when I read now even in Switzerland that half the hospitals are empty, that detected infections have increased very little day-to-day in the last 10 days, that doubling rates are now near the 20-day mark (meaning spread has slowed significantly and is even near what qualifies a complete stop), that there has been exactly zero excess mortality so far - yet even our politicians keep claiming the "peak has not arrived yet", and keep referring to an ominous wave the same way they've been referring to for a month yet it somehow never came - I can't help but feel confirmed in my suspicion.

I believe in the end mortality rates will have been extremely low except in certain areas where there was an unusual amount of infections, exacerbated in part by a weak or simply insufficient or ineffective healthcare system. And when that day comes, people will scramble to try to explain their reactions which were very obviously at the very least in part based on fear as well as peer or group pressure.

I understand it's difficult to make decisions if something you can't immediately explain comes your way. But it's now being politicized - in no way surprising of course - and that requires MUCH more critical, unemotional, nuanced dialogue.
Reply With Quote
The following 6 users would like to thank Samaire13 for this useful post:
  #6612  
Old 08.04.2020, 09:45
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 11,148
Groaned at 511 Times in 434 Posts
Thanked 20,073 Times in 10,576 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
The current bunch of alarmists will explain why their projections are NOT working by taking credit for whatever they can spin in their favor. The facts are absolutely irrelevant in this, twisting facts is.

And no, I am not disappointed, I was never worried to begin with.
"The facts are absolutely irrelevant in this" Really? Well for most of us facts are important but there are always some fact-free conspiracy theorists hanging around.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank marton for this useful post:
  #6613  
Old 08.04.2020, 09:50
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 11,148
Groaned at 511 Times in 434 Posts
Thanked 20,073 Times in 10,576 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Yesterday 1,970 deaths reported by the US;
this despite many coroners and medical examiners claiming lack of access to COV-19 test kits so unable to confirm the cause of death for people found dead at home.
This problem is also claimed in Wyoming which is reporting no COV-19 deaths.

EDIT; Trump often claims Obama handled the H1N1 flu poorly with 12,496 deaths in a year.
According to Worldometers US reported the first COV-19 death on March 16th, total US COV-19 deaths now 12,857 in only three weeks.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank marton for this useful post:
  #6614  
Old 08.04.2020, 09:52
NotAllThere's Avatar
Mod x2
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Baselland
Posts: 13,871
Groaned at 245 Times in 216 Posts
Thanked 20,473 Times in 8,319 Posts
NotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
I don't know about Trump but yes, I do believe some people will profit from this pandemic. It is well known that some fortunes are made during wars, revolutions etc. i.e. "muddy" times.
That's how Oskar Schindler got rich. But he was completely crap at making money in peace time.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank NotAllThere for this useful post:
  #6615  
Old 08.04.2020, 09:55
MusicChick's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: La Cote
Posts: 17,489
Groaned at 414 Times in 275 Posts
Thanked 20,428 Times in 10,577 Posts
MusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
I've been openly suspicious from the start and have made no secret of that.

And when I read now even in Switzerland that half the hospitals are empty, that detected infections have increased very little day-to-day in the last 10 days, that doubling rates are now near the 20-day mark (meaning spread has slowed significantly and is even near what qualifies a complete stop), that there has been exactly zero excess mortality so far - yet even our politicians keep claiming the "peak has not arrived yet", and keep referring to an ominous wave the same way they've been referring to for a month yet it somehow never came - I can't help but feel confirmed in my suspicion.

I believe in the end mortality rates will have been extremely low except in certain areas where there was an unusual amount of infections, exacerbated in part by a weak or simply insufficient or ineffective healthcare system. And when that day comes, people will scramble to try to explain their reactions which were very obviously at the very least in part based on fear as well as peer or group pressure.

I understand it's difficult to make decisions if something you can't immediately explain comes your way. But it's now being politicized - in no way surprising of course - and that requires MUCH more critical, unemotional, nuanced dialogue.
Like saying 'better safe than sorry"? Not so nuanced, I know, but true. Let's just say that the way measures have been working is a success (for now), which cannot be said about other places. I'd credit everyone taking part in those measures. But they say that the meds will be available in the summer and vax in a year, so a long way to just relax too much. People are kept on their toes, it is logical.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank MusicChick for this useful post:
  #6616  
Old 08.04.2020, 09:57
gaburko's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: BL
Posts: 1,091
Groaned at 164 Times in 111 Posts
Thanked 2,920 Times in 1,062 Posts
gaburko has a reputation beyond reputegaburko has a reputation beyond reputegaburko has a reputation beyond reputegaburko has a reputation beyond reputegaburko has a reputation beyond reputegaburko has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
"The facts are absolutely irrelevant in this" Really? Well for most of us facts are important but there are always some fact-free conspiracy theorists hanging around.
Yep. Empty hospitals, death rates way lower than projected, current estimates revised downwards...You're still in denial, that's ok, it will take some time for all of you worryer-s to come back to normal.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank gaburko for this useful post:
This user groans at gaburko for this post:
  #6617  
Old 08.04.2020, 10:07
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
Yep. Empty hospitals, death rates way lower than projected, current estimates revised downwards...
"Empty" hospitals only because almost everything apart from Coronavirus that can be delayed has been delayed.

ICUs are mostly nearly full or in the Tessin over-full. And only that "nearly" because a large number of new ICUs have been created over the last weeks.

The death rate was always estimated at 1% to 2%. In fact even in Switzerland the apparent number is around 4% adding the estimated number of dark cases would bring it down to about 2%. SO pretty well as projected.

The only reason for all of this is the current distancing regime.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank for this useful post:
  #6618  
Old 08.04.2020, 10:12
TonyClifton's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Hopefully soon to be Aargau
Posts: 1,676
Groaned at 589 Times in 336 Posts
Thanked 4,106 Times in 1,724 Posts
TonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
In the same news conference, Trump backtracked on his threat when he was asked if it was an appropriate time to withdraw funds in the middle of a pandemic!

It was already explained to you that EU health issues are still primarily a member state responsibility. Seems Ferrari did not get the memo!
"Explained", yes I saw that. Whenever the EU don't want to muddy their hands they always refer back to the treaties. We saw the same when the Spanish started bashing up people in Catalonia!

Fortunately, this approach won't cut the mustard this time. When an organisation fails the first two goals of its mission statement (ensure "the well-being of its citizens" and "offer freedom, security and justice without internal borders") then it ceases to serve a purpose.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank TonyClifton for this useful post:
  #6619  
Old 08.04.2020, 10:18
Ato Ato is offline
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: ZH
Posts: 1,614
Groaned at 17 Times in 17 Posts
Thanked 3,035 Times in 1,226 Posts
Ato has a reputation beyond reputeAto has a reputation beyond reputeAto has a reputation beyond reputeAto has a reputation beyond reputeAto has a reputation beyond reputeAto has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
"Explained", yes I saw that. Whenever the EU don't want to muddy their hands they always refer back to the treaties. We saw the same when the Spanish started bashing up people in Catalonia!

Fortunately, this approach won't cut the mustard this time. When an organisation fails the first two goals of its mission statement (ensure "the well-being of its citizens" and "offer freedom, security and justice without internal borders") then it ceases to serve a purpose.
If an organisation is limited by its treaties I don't know what you expect it to do. They're either overly passive, or if they did something then people would be on here saying they're overstepping their mandate again.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Ato for this useful post:
  #6620  
Old 08.04.2020, 10:26
TonyClifton's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Hopefully soon to be Aargau
Posts: 1,676
Groaned at 589 Times in 336 Posts
Thanked 4,106 Times in 1,724 Posts
TonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
If an organisation is limited by its treaties I don't know what you expect it to do. They're either overly passive, or if they did something then people would be on here saying they're overstepping their mandate again.
They are not limited by their treaties, it's just an excuse that they are using.
Reply With Quote
This user groans at TonyClifton for this post:
Reply

Tags
cold, corona, coronavirus, covid, covid-19, flu, health, medical, virus




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 8 (1 members and 7 guests)
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Coronavirus Jokes makeabigwish Daily life 258 19.10.2021 05:45
Coronavirus closed janvier Forum support 18 01.11.2020 13:12
Paid holidays and coronavirus Curtiss Employment 2 20.04.2020 09:22
Coronavirus scammers are out there - be warned Medea Fleecestealer Daily life 9 18.04.2020 18:53
Leaving Switzerland for UK during coronavirus barkingtreewolf Leaving Switzerland 19 11.04.2020 11:45


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 23:13.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0