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Old 14.04.2020, 13:35
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Re: Coronavirus

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Why this NHS appeal to retired doctors and nurses (and medics without finished degrees) then, air transport staff retraining to work in hospitals and social carers? Was it just in case?
It was intended to relieve regular NHS staff to allow them to do crash courses in ICU nursing as that's a specialisation. With many UK hospitals splitting their A&E and admissions into red and green zones, the number of staff required to man all this has doubled in an effort to prevent cross-contamination.
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  #7182  
Old 14.04.2020, 13:35
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Re: Coronavirus

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According to a study done by Department of Bioscience and Engineering at ETH Zurich the virus spread was in decline in Switzerland while people were going on normally with their lifes, children were in school, restaurants were open... Not much changed in the virus spread since the introduction of the lock down



Pretty much what's happening in Sweden at the moment
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  #7183  
Old 14.04.2020, 13:44
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Re: Coronavirus

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Still looking for the source of Jorido's assertion that "studies have shown" social restrictions have had no impact on virus spread.
Where have I asserted that?
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Old 14.04.2020, 13:45
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Re: Coronavirus

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According to a study done by Department of Bioscience and Engineering at ETH Zurich the virus spread was in decline in Switzerland while people were going on normally with their lifes, children were in school, restaurants were open... Not much changed in the virus spread since the introduction of the lock down

Pretty much what's happening in Sweden at the moment

Please keep us updated daily about how things are going great in Sweden. After all, we're going to be bored at home until April 26th
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Old 14.04.2020, 13:47
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Re: Coronavirus

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The French have made the biggest mess of this situation of any country in Europe, with the possible exception of us Brits. Forgive me if I don't take their advice with any seriousness whatsoever!

I mean having to carry a bit of paper to go outside for a walk is a complete joke. We haven't put that in place in Switzerland, we were hard hit and yet we seem to be doing very well. It's been comprehensively shown that you don't need to restrict outside behaviour to get the disease under control, so why are they doing it. That should be a real civil liberties matter. As is the apparent banning of going for a country walk in the UK.

I agree that it is theoretically possible to catch the disease outside, but it's so vanishingly unlikely if you are social distancing as to be irrelevant. I'd be donating the masks to the hospitals instead personally, at least if I were under 70 and well.
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Where have I asserted that?
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Old 14.04.2020, 13:48
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Re: Coronavirus

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Are you telling me there is no staff looking after him/them at Chequers? Anyhow, he has tested negative the day after coming out.
There's a lot of false negatives. Its a clear matter of national security that this infection doesn't spread to other members of the leadership team running the country.
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  #7187  
Old 14.04.2020, 13:49
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Re: Coronavirus

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That's not the same thing at all.. I didn't reference "studies", nor did I talk about social restrictions in the round, but rather focused on outdoor activities.

And um. Switzerland is the proof. We haven't (ludicrously) restricted going for a walk and sunbathing and have recovered quickly. It should be a matter of the bloody obvious that sunbathing and the like isn't dangerous.

Some people think that this disease is bordering on "fake news". A lot of people seem to think they need to stay locked in their house all day. I take a position between these extremes. Sensible behaviour should be undertaken in public spaces indoors, with social distancing and masks if at risk, but quite lassez faire outdoors. I have a lot of time for the Swiss authorities. I think they are being quite conservative on the reopening date, but that's quite understandable. I have little time for the French or British approach, which I consider to be both totally unneccessary, disproportionate and as such an affront to civil liberties.

Last edited by jorido; 14.04.2020 at 14:04.
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  #7188  
Old 14.04.2020, 13:55
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Re: Coronavirus

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That's not the same thing at all.. I didn't reference "studies", nor did I talk about social restrictions in the round, but rather focused on outdoor activities.

And um. Switzerland is the proof. We haven't (ludicrously) restricted going for a walk and sunbathing and have recovered quickly.
If that's 'comprehensively shown' for you then I'm not sure what other discussion we can have.

First you said just restrict behavior. Which Switzerland has done. Now you added the 'ludicrously' qualifier to it so you can show that Switzerland 'comprehensively' proved your point.

Make up your mind.
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  #7189  
Old 14.04.2020, 13:55
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Re: Coronavirus

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Source for these "facts " please. You appear to have different information to those friends of mine who work in hospitals. Especially those in ICUs.

The NHS is just about coping because of the social distancing and lockdown. Folk are actually not just going to A&E at the drop of a hat. Non-essential treatment has been postponed. As many services as possible have shifted to phone contact only.

I honestly do not think you have a clue but your "facts" support your anti-UK stance so I suppose that's why you spout them.
Matt Hancock said on Sunday during a press conference that there was about 2000 unused ICU beds, oddly a higher unused capacity than under normal circumstances. I imagine he has access to more accurate figures than your friends who work in hospitals.

https://twitter.com/MattHancock/stat...83576463912964
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  #7190  
Old 14.04.2020, 13:56
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Re: Coronavirus

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There's a lot of false negatives. Its a clear matter of national security that this infection doesn't spread to other members of the leadership team running the country.
Not only false negatives. Some people who get infected for a short time or only mildly don't develop immunity and don't show antibodies.
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  #7191  
Old 14.04.2020, 13:58
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Re: Coronavirus

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V____ thinks that this disease is "fake news".
I don't think this disease is fake news.

I think it's over hyped.
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  #7192  
Old 14.04.2020, 14:00
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Re: Coronavirus

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I don't think this disease is fake news.

I think it's over hyped.
Ok apologies.
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  #7193  
Old 14.04.2020, 14:03
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Re: Coronavirus

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I think it's over hyped.
The families and loved ones of approximately 120,438 people would strongly disagree with you.
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Old 14.04.2020, 14:05
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Re: Coronavirus

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The families and loved ones of approximately 120,438 people would strongly disagree with you.
Most of whom were at deaths door anyway.
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  #7195  
Old 14.04.2020, 14:07
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Re: Coronavirus

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If that's 'comprehensively shown' for you then I'm not sure what other discussion we can have.

First you said just restrict behavior. Which Switzerland has done. Now you added the 'ludicrously' qualifier to it so you can show that Switzerland 'comprehensively' proved your point.

Make up your mind.
I don't really understand what you are saying. Sorry if I haven't been clear. I'm just trying to say there is no need to take the measures that France and the UK have taken that restrict outdoor activities such as going for a walk, lying in the sun etc. and keep people in their houses to get the cases to contract in number. I would have thought that this is not a point that is seriously under debate. Are you saying it is necessary?

I referenced Switzerland, but there are many other countries that have controlled the disease without these measures. Germany for example.
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  #7196  
Old 14.04.2020, 14:11
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Re: Coronavirus

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The families and loved ones of approximately 120,438 people would strongly disagree with you.
Around 9 million people die every year of hunger and hunger-related diseases.

In the 4 months during corona and 120k victims (of which, a huge majority are 80+, in other words, in the end of their life cycles anyway), 3 million pople died only from hunger.

Children are the most visible victims of under nutrition.

Yes, all these years, nobody said anything "hey, let's stop for a moment and take care of people in real need in this world"

Now, a flu, just like any year, kills 80+ years old and the world stops?

Are we out of our minds or we just want to care and worry about the stuff that only interests us?
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  #7197  
Old 14.04.2020, 14:12
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Re: Coronavirus

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I referenced Switzerland, but there are many other countries that have controlled the disease without these measures. Germany for example.

Germany has similar lock down recommendations as Switzerland has.
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Old 14.04.2020, 14:14
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Re: Coronavirus

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I don't really understand what you are saying. Sorry if I haven't been clear. I'm just trying to say there is no need to take the measures that France and the UK have taken that restrict outdoor activities and keep people in their houses to get the cases to contract in number. I would have thought that this is not a point that is seriously under debate. Are you saying it is necessary?

I referenced Switzerland, but there are many other countries that have controlled the disease without these measures. Germany for example.
I'm saying that you said it's been comprehensively shown that restrictions on outdoor activities aren't needed to get this disease under control. You then said that Switzerland is your example to 'comprehensively' show this. Switzerland has restrictions on outdoor activities.

So you changed it to 'ludicrous' restrictions on outdoor activities. I don't think the UK (can't speak for France) has ludicrous outdoor restrictions. I go for a walk, the kid rides her bike outside, I go to the shops when I need things. I don't think it's ludicrous to say to stay at home and not have picnics in the park. People's opinions vary on this, and I imagine me having a garden has a bearing on this.

If we are taking individual countries as examples then China had 'ludicrous' restrictions and reduced their daily infection numbers. That has comprehensively shown that restrictions on outdoor activities DO reduce infections....by your logic.
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Old 14.04.2020, 14:15
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Re: Coronavirus

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Around 9 million people die every year of hunger and hunger-related diseases.

In the 4 months during corona and 120k victims (of which, a huge majority are 80+, in other words, in the end of their life cycles anyway), 3 million pople died only from hunger.

Children are the most visible victims of under nutrition.

Yes, all these years, nobody said anything "hey, let's stop for a moment and take care of people in real need in this world"

Now, a flu, just like any year, kills 80+ years old and the world stops?

Are we out of our minds or we just want to care and worry about the stuff that only interests us?
I don't always agree with your posts, and think your use of data is a bit selective, but this is spot on. Human beings are terrible at judging risk. We let simple treatable chronic diseases kill millions, and then panic over relatively mild acute diseases such as this one.
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Old 14.04.2020, 14:24
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Re: Coronavirus

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Around 9 million people die every year of hunger and hunger-related diseases.

In the 4 months during corona and 120k victims (of which, a huge majority are 80+, in other words, in the end of their life cycles anyway), 3 million pople died only from hunger.

Children are the most visible victims of under nutrition.

Yes, all these years, nobody said anything "hey, let's stop for a moment and take care of people in real need in this world"

Now, a flu, just like any year, kills 80+ years old and the world stops?

Are we out of our minds or we just want to care and worry about the stuff that only interests us?
Flu is a major issue every year. During flu season there are daily updates on the news regarding hospital capacity and how the NHS is coping. There is a huge drive for people in vulnerable groups to get a flu vaccine and a lot of companies reimburse the flu vaccine for employees.
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