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  #7201  
Old 14.04.2020, 14:25
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Re: Coronavirus

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I'm saying that you said it's been comprehensively shown that restrictions on outdoor activities aren't needed to get this disease under control. You then said that Switzerland is your example to 'comprehensively' show this. Switzerland has restrictions on outdoor activities.

So you changed it to 'ludicrous' restrictions on outdoor activities. I don't think the UK (can't speak for France) has ludicrous outdoor restrictions. I go for a walk, the kid rides her bike outside, I go to the shops when I need things. I don't think it's ludicrous to say to stay at home and not have picnics in the park. People's opinions vary on this, and I imagine me having a garden has a bearing on this.

If we are taking individual countries as examples then China had 'ludicrous' restrictions and reduced their daily infection numbers. That has comprehensively shown that restrictions on outdoor activities DO reduce infections....by your logic.
I don't understand your point regarding your last paragraph. China also restricted indoor activities. The fact that China reduced it numbers isn't proof that it was the outdoor activities "that done it".

I do however, get your broader point, that I've been a little sloppy over defining what I mean. What I meant was that you should be able to do everyday activities such as have a picnic, sunbathe, take multiple walks, drive your car somewhere to do exercise etc. provided you social distance (2m).

I accept that there are some outdoor activities that should not be done such as open air concerts, and the like that I did not consider. Apologies for my lack of clarity. I knew what I meant but did not express it clearly. I think you get what I mean though.
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Old 14.04.2020, 16:13
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Re: Coronavirus

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I don't really understand what you are saying. Sorry if I haven't been clear. I'm just trying to say there is no need to take the measures that France and the UK have taken that restrict outdoor activities such as going for a walk, lying in the sun etc. and keep people in their houses to get the cases to contract in number. I would have thought that this is not a point that is seriously under debate. Are you saying it is necessary?

I referenced Switzerland, but there are many other countries that have controlled the disease without these measures. Germany for example.
You can can go for a walk etc, just in your local area and with members of your own household. What you can't do is host an BBQ for 20 of your mates or visit other houses.

I'm not sure what point you are trying to make. I don't think you understand what is really happening in the UK.
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  #7203  
Old 14.04.2020, 16:20
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Re: Coronavirus

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Matt Hancock said on Sunday during a press conference that there was about 2000 unused ICU beds, oddly a higher unused capacity than under normal circumstances. I imagine he has access to more accurate figures than your friends who work in hospitals.

https://twitter.com/MattHancock/stat...83576463912964
Please post tweet for those who don't have access.

Probably because folk have been social distancing. And they built an 4k bed unit Nightingale ICU centre in London and, I think two more places. So it's a bit of a numbers fiddle. There are more beds now than before the Covid situation. Whether there are enough ventilators, staff and PPE is another issue.


I imagine you, again, don't really know what is happening in the UK. My friends work in ICU units and out in the community.

Last edited by RufusB; 14.04.2020 at 16:30. Reason: Extra info
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  #7204  
Old 14.04.2020, 16:22
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Re: Coronavirus

This is great, Mr. Trump says now that the EVIL MEDIA minimized the coronavirus risk https://www.politico.com/news/2020/0...navirus-184752

On this side of the Atlantic, the EVIL MEDIA over hypes the risk, what to make out of these conflicting points of view?
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  #7205  
Old 14.04.2020, 16:24
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Re: Coronavirus

Overloaded hospitals, medical staff won't be able to attend to everybody, etc etc

In the meantime:

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  #7206  
Old 14.04.2020, 16:27
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Re: Coronavirus

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Please post tweet for those who don't have access.

Probably because folk have been social distancing. And they built an 4k bed unit Nightingale ICU centre in London and, I think two more places. So it's a bit of a numbers fiddle.

I imagine you, again, don't really know what is happening in the UK. My friends work in ICU units and out in the community.
Here's another link, I do know what's going on in the UK because I trust what the government and media is saying.

https://metro.co.uk/video/uk-critica...risis-2150234/
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  #7207  
Old 14.04.2020, 16:28
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Re: Coronavirus

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I'm just trying to say there is no need to take the measures that France and the UK have taken that restrict outdoor activities such as going for a walk, lying in the sun etc.
Funny that, in the bit of France I'm sitting in we can do all of those things.
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Old 14.04.2020, 16:32
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Re: Coronavirus

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Overloaded hospitals, medical staff won't be able to attend to everybody, etc etc

In the meantime:

As a patient in the background slowly dies and calls out feebly for help "let's make another TikTok video!"
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Old 14.04.2020, 16:54
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Re: Coronavirus

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Here's another link, I do know what's going on in the UK because I trust what the government and media is saying.

https://metro.co.uk/video/uk-critica...risis-2150234/
And if that's enough for you, so be it. That just means you're getting your info filtered at least twice and are happy to swallow edited "highlights" and well spun factoids. I live here. I'm not guessing.

Again, there may now be more beds than before simply because there are literally more ICU beds than before. You can watch time lapse videos of the Excel centre being transformed into enormous ICU wards. It's not that we are under the original capacity, they have simply increased it. Still got to staff and equip all those new beds with the original numbers of staff plus the final year students and any suitable returning staff /retrained existing staff. Being an ICU doctor or nurse is highly specialised.
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  #7210  
Old 14.04.2020, 16:58
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Re: Coronavirus

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And if that's enough for you, so be it. That just means you're getting your info filtered at least twice and are happy to swallow edited "highlights" and well spun factoids. I live here. I'm not guessing.

Again, there may now be more beds than before simply because there are literally more ICU beds than before. You can watch time lapse videos of the Excel centre being transformed into enormous ICU wards. It's not that we are under the original capacity, they have simply increased it. Still got to staff and equip all those new beds with the original numbers of staff plus the final year students and any suitable returning staff /retrained existing staff. Being an ICU doctor or nurse is highly specialised.
Now, now RufusB....careful with having opinions of your own on EF, people are terribly insecure here and I predict you'll be subjected to attempts at character assassination again....
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Old 14.04.2020, 17:29
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Re: Coronavirus

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Overloaded hospitals, medical staff won't be able to attend to everybody, etc etc

In the meantime:

How awful and judgemental. How dare the staff have a bit of fun while working.
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Old 14.04.2020, 17:36
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Re: Coronavirus

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As a patient in the background slowly dies and calls out feebly for help "let's make another TikTok video!"
Did you post this while working?
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  #7213  
Old 14.04.2020, 17:37
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Re: Coronavirus

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There's a lot of false negatives. Its a clear matter of national security that this infection doesn't spread to other members of the leadership team running the country.
Boris as head of a leadership team running the UK is like having Jeremy Clarkson running F1. Nice idea buts lets get serious. Just for the poor folks stuck on the island it is not a joke.
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  #7214  
Old 14.04.2020, 17:49
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Re: Coronavirus

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How awful and judgemental. How dare the staff have a bit of fun while working.
No worries they'll get their cheer and clapping tonight at 9

Well, most of their colleagues will be home cheering them and those who work, as you can see they need to find things to do
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Old 14.04.2020, 18:27
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Re: Coronavirus

Eerily gloomy forecast for the global economy
There hasn't been a crash like this since the Great Depression in the 1930s.
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  #7216  
Old 14.04.2020, 18:38
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Re: Coronavirus

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Funny that, in the bit of France I'm sitting in we can do all of those things.
My colleague says she is not allowed more than 1km from her house. I presumed (perhaps incorrectly) this was the case wider.
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Old 14.04.2020, 18:39
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Re: Coronavirus

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Please post tweet for those who don't have access.

Probably because folk have been social distancing. And they built an 4k bed unit Nightingale ICU centre in London and, I think two more places. So it's a bit of a numbers fiddle. There are more beds now than before the Covid situation. Whether there are enough ventilators, staff and PPE is another issue.


I imagine you, again, don't really know what is happening in the UK. My friends work in ICU units and out in the community.
And even if there is spare capacity nationwide, that doesn't isn't to say that there isn't local capacity issues.
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Old 14.04.2020, 18:40
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Re: Coronavirus

Germans rebel against lockdown in Berlin
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47d7...ntn8xZF7HPrM50
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  #7219  
Old 14.04.2020, 18:41
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Re: Coronavirus

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You can can go for a walk etc, just in your local area and with members of your own household. What you can't do is host an BBQ for 20 of your mates or visit other houses.

I'm not sure what point you are trying to make. I don't think you understand what is really happening in the UK.
I've seen comments regarding people being told off for driving to the Peak District to go for a walk by the police (despite seemingly not being illegal). Its also expressly against the rules to relax outside (take a picnic, sunbathe etc.)
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Old 14.04.2020, 18:53
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Re: Coronavirus

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I don't always agree with your posts, and think your use of data is a bit selective, but this is spot on. Human beings are terrible at judging risk. We let simple treatable chronic diseases kill millions, and then panic over relatively mild acute diseases such as this one.
You obviously lack the correct perspective. Everybody will die eventually regardless of what we do, thus we should do nothing at all.
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