Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Living in Switzerland > Daily life  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #7221  
Old 14.04.2020, 18:00
V__'s Avatar
V__ V__ is offline
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Lausanne
Posts: 1,511
Groaned at 384 Times in 215 Posts
Thanked 2,082 Times in 866 Posts
V__ has a reputation beyond reputeV__ has a reputation beyond reputeV__ has a reputation beyond reputeV__ has a reputation beyond reputeV__ has a reputation beyond reputeV__ has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Danish corona numbers are much better than expected so they will reopen much sooner than what they hoping for.

Another overestimation on the initial situation?

Certainly reopening will bring back new infections, the virus isn't gone, just matter of time when countries change their strategy.

Was Sweden ahead all of us after all?
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank V__ for this useful post:
The following 2 users groan at V__ for this post:
  #7222  
Old 14.04.2020, 18:18
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Formerly in Neuchatel
Posts: 3,041
Groaned at 231 Times in 158 Posts
Thanked 5,910 Times in 2,166 Posts
porsch1909 has a reputation beyond reputeporsch1909 has a reputation beyond reputeporsch1909 has a reputation beyond reputeporsch1909 has a reputation beyond reputeporsch1909 has a reputation beyond reputeporsch1909 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
Danish corona numbers are much better than expected so they will reopen much sooner than what they hoping for.

Another overestimation on the initial situation?

Certainly reopening will bring back new infections, the virus isn't gone, just matter of time when countries change their strategy.

Was Sweden ahead all of us after all?
Denmark was one of the first countries to impose restrictions. Doesn't that mean that the strategy has worked well if they're doing better than expected?
Reply With Quote
The following 9 users would like to thank porsch1909 for this useful post:
  #7223  
Old 14.04.2020, 18:38
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
My colleague says she is not allowed more than 1km from her house. I presumed (perhaps incorrectly) this was the case wider.
For personal exercise, yes, that's right, and only 'with' other members of the household, but that's really about stopping people driving to parks, mountains, whatever, to do their walking, running or cycling there. I've cycled further away from the house than that, while doing other permitted errands.

Other excursions, shopping, medical treatment, etc. are not specified by distance. We drove to St. Louis last week to shop at Gťant there, and were stopped on the way back, just by the motorway. The cop did question that this was a bit far (it's 20km) but as we have no shops in what's technically our village, and one smallish supermarket in the next one, didn't suggest that we shouldn't be doing that.

(Yes, there are decent sized shops closer, but we wanted to go there specifically.)
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank for this useful post:
  #7224  
Old 14.04.2020, 19:08
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: ZH
Posts: 493
Groaned at 32 Times in 21 Posts
Thanked 529 Times in 250 Posts
LifeStrain has a reputation beyond reputeLifeStrain has a reputation beyond reputeLifeStrain has a reputation beyond reputeLifeStrain has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
How awful and judgemental. How dare the staff have a bit of fun while working.

They are not practicing social distancing whenever possible, though
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank LifeStrain for this useful post:
  #7225  
Old 14.04.2020, 19:15
TonyClifton's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Hopefully soon to be Aargau
Posts: 1,676
Groaned at 589 Times in 336 Posts
Thanked 4,106 Times in 1,724 Posts
TonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
And if that's enough for you, so be it. That just means you're getting your info filtered at least twice and are happy to swallow edited "highlights" and well spun factoids. I live here. I'm not guessing.

Again, there may now be more beds than before simply because there are literally more ICU beds than before. You can watch time lapse videos of the Excel centre being transformed into enormous ICU wards. It's not that we are under the original capacity, they have simply increased it. Still got to staff and equip all those new beds with the original numbers of staff plus the final year students and any suitable returning staff /retrained existing staff. Being an ICU doctor or nurse is highly specialised.
Yes it's enough for me because I have trust in Western democracies (unlike many on this forum it seems). I prefer to get my information from reliable sources, like governments and media rather than random stranger's "friends" on internet forums.

The fact is that on Sunday night, NHS ICU bed spaces were well under full capacity AND with much higher unused capacity than normal. Please, allow your friends to prove me wrong

https://www.hsj.co.uk/service-design...027398.article
https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/...cu-beds-empty/
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank TonyClifton for this useful post:
  #7226  
Old 14.04.2020, 19:26
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
Yes it's enough for me because I have trust in Western democracies (unlike many on this forum it seems). I prefer to get my information from reliable sources, like governments and media rather than random stranger's "friends" on internet forums.

The fact is that on Sunday night, NHS ICU bed spaces were well under full capacity AND with much higher unused capacity than normal. Please, allow your friends to prove me wrong

https://www.hsj.co.uk/service-design...027398.article
https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/...cu-beds-empty/
And that's entirely your prerogative. You're clearly a Tory Spin Doctor's wet dream.

As someone pointed out above - Jorido - there may indeed be national capacity and still local difficulties. And the fact remains we are talking about two different sets of numbers. ICU bed numbers before Covid 19 and now. You just don't want to entertain anything that doesn't fit your reality. Much like the UK gov't and a lot of the tabloid "media". Again, your choice. But that does not make it fact.


I'm glad there are empty beds. Hopefully it will ease the strain on staff having to potentially care for thousands more people.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank for this useful post:
This user groans at for this post:
  #7227  
Old 14.04.2020, 19:31
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: SG
Posts: 9,402
Groaned at 499 Times in 370 Posts
Thanked 12,495 Times in 6,483 Posts
Urs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
They are not practicing social distancing whenever possible, though
Note the blue caps. Only immunised people are allowed to wear them.
Reply With Quote
  #7228  
Old 14.04.2020, 19:51
TonyClifton's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Hopefully soon to be Aargau
Posts: 1,676
Groaned at 589 Times in 336 Posts
Thanked 4,106 Times in 1,724 Posts
TonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
And that's entirely your prerogative. You're clearly a Tory Spin Doctor's wet dream.

As someone pointed out above - Jorido - there may indeed be national capacity and still local difficulties. And the fact remains we are talking about two different sets of numbers. ICU bed numbers before Covid 19 and now. You just don't want to entertain anything that doesn't fit your reality. Much like the UK gov't and a lot of the tabloid "media". Again, your choice. But that does not make it fact.


I'm glad there are empty beds. Hopefully it will ease the strain on staff having to potentially care for thousands more people.
There may be local difficulties, although I canít find any reports of this. YOU are the one picking an argument and talking about different sets of numbers, I only stated that ICU beds, are under capacity, which is odd given what was expected.
Reply With Quote
  #7229  
Old 14.04.2020, 20:18
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: CH
Posts: 10,971
Groaned at 2,032 Times in 1,120 Posts
Thanked 5,139 Times in 3,246 Posts
omtatsat omtatsat omtatsat omtatsat omtatsat
Re: Coronavirus

China animal market-waiting to be slaughtered!
Name:  5RNly2oAqn88-skK11EBA3.jpg
Views: 347
Size:  90.9 KB
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users groan at omtatsat for this post:
  #7230  
Old 14.04.2020, 20:40
V__'s Avatar
V__ V__ is offline
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Lausanne
Posts: 1,511
Groaned at 384 Times in 215 Posts
Thanked 2,082 Times in 866 Posts
V__ has a reputation beyond reputeV__ has a reputation beyond reputeV__ has a reputation beyond reputeV__ has a reputation beyond reputeV__ has a reputation beyond reputeV__ has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
Denmark was one of the first countries to impose restrictions. Doesn't that mean that the strategy has worked well if they're doing better than expected?
The did a lock down the same day as Switzerland. The strategy to reopen, does that mean that the virus magically went back to China or there will be new infections as soon as they reopen but they realize that it is not as bad as everybody feared will be, so they reopen anyway?

While Sweden stayed open all the time...And Denmark strategy is to do...like Sweden?

So, this is a successful strategy to you?

Or simply a shift strategy?
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users groan at V__ for this post:
  #7231  
Old 14.04.2020, 20:57
TonyClifton's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Hopefully soon to be Aargau
Posts: 1,676
Groaned at 589 Times in 336 Posts
Thanked 4,106 Times in 1,724 Posts
TonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
The did a lock down the same day as Switzerland. The strategy to reopen, does that mean that the virus magically went back to China or there will be new infections as soon as they reopen but they realize that it is not as bad as everybody feared will be, so they reopen anyway?

While Sweden stayed open all the time...And Denmark strategy is to do...like Sweden?

So, this is a successful strategy to you?

Or simply a shift strategy?
This is what Iím wondering to, reports from the countries that have reopened in Asia suggest virus outbreaks are happening again. If this turns out to be the case here as well, it does make one wonder whether the lockdown was worthwhile after all.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank TonyClifton for this useful post:
  #7232  
Old 14.04.2020, 21:20
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
China animal market-waiting to be slaughtered!
Attachment 139233
Do you really think this animal is still waiting?

Picture shows already up in 2014
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank for this useful post:
  #7233  
Old 14.04.2020, 21:23
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
The did a lock down the same day as Switzerland. The strategy to reopen, does that mean that the virus magically went back to China or there will be new infections as soon as they reopen but they realize that it is not as bad as everybody feared will be, so they reopen anyway?

While Sweden stayed open all the time...And Denmark strategy is to do...like Sweden?

So, this is a successful strategy to you?

Or simply a shift strategy?
This is so incredible dumb...
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank for this useful post:
  #7234  
Old 14.04.2020, 21:30
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 219
Groaned at 4 Times in 4 Posts
Thanked 181 Times in 94 Posts
jimk is considered knowledgeablejimk is considered knowledgeablejimk is considered knowledgeable
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
...It should be a matter of the bloody obvious that sunbathing and the like isn't dangerous.
Sure, though the problem actually was that the popular green spots, like in Zurich by the lake, kept getting filled with crowds and there wasn't much area there for distancing, so they got closed. Out-of-town places are fine though.

Quote:
View Post
I have little time for the French or British approach, which I consider to be both totally unneccessary, disproportionate and as such an affront to civil liberties.
Agree, although in huge densely populated cities like Paris and London strict measures would make sense. In the countryside and in the mountains not so much.
Reply With Quote
  #7235  
Old 14.04.2020, 21:34
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 219
Groaned at 4 Times in 4 Posts
Thanked 181 Times in 94 Posts
jimk is considered knowledgeablejimk is considered knowledgeablejimk is considered knowledgeable
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
Germany has similar lock down recommendations as Switzerland has.
Stricter. max 2 people together
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank jimk for this useful post:
  #7236  
Old 14.04.2020, 21:37
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 219
Groaned at 4 Times in 4 Posts
Thanked 181 Times in 94 Posts
jimk is considered knowledgeablejimk is considered knowledgeablejimk is considered knowledgeable
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
Around 9 million people die every year of hunger and hunger-related diseases. ?
Deadcatting detected

Last edited by jimk; 14.04.2020 at 21:58.
Reply With Quote
  #7237  
Old 14.04.2020, 21:40
3Wishes's Avatar
Moderately Amused
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Bern area
Posts: 11,209
Groaned at 88 Times in 84 Posts
Thanked 19,235 Times in 8,522 Posts
3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
This is what I’m wondering to, reports from the countries that have reopened in Asia suggest virus outbreaks are happening again. If this turns out to be the case here as well, it does make one wonder whether the lockdown was worthwhile after all.
There will be ample time for reflection, that's for sure. The definition of worthwhile will be different for different people though.

Remember that flattening the curve doesn't eliminate it. It spreads the cases out over time so as not to overwhelm the healthcare system. Few countries have the capacity to handle thousands of people needing intensive care at the same moment. Even China built hospitals in record time because they didn't have the capacity. We're going to be living with this virus and the effects of our leaders' choices for a long time.

Economically, it's clear the lockdowns are going to be seriously damaging. The scale tipping conversations will start, was the economic damage "worth" saving those lives. Many, many people think like V__ - that the disease only really hits old people who were going to die anyway. It's an oversimplified view, but millions will share it.

Nevermind that in many cases, not doing any restrictions would have led to overwhelmed healthcare systems and even more deaths. When you stop valuing human life simply because someone is elderly, imo that's taking society backwards.

My aunt lived to 101 and died in her sleep not of any illness. To say she was "going to die soon anyway" at age 80 is absurd.

Edit to add - I think we're looking back prematurely. This isn't over yet and we should be thinking about plans about what to do if a second wave hits.
Reply With Quote
The following 5 users would like to thank 3Wishes for this useful post:
  #7238  
Old 14.04.2020, 21:52
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: SG
Posts: 9,402
Groaned at 499 Times in 370 Posts
Thanked 12,495 Times in 6,483 Posts
Urs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
This is what I’m wondering to, reports from the countries that have reopened in Asia suggest virus outbreaks are happening again. If this turns out to be the case here as well, it does make one wonder whether the lockdown was worthwhile after all.
1) get numbers back down
=> lockdown

2) keep numbers down
=> relax lockdown but keep the core measures in place
what that means in detail needs finding out, Denmark and Austria have just started on that. In order to know early you need to test, and backtrack new positives as far as possible.

Since you folks keep harping about Sweden, this is the number of Covid-19 patients in ICU beds in Sweden. Only Covid-19 cases are shown. To me it doesn't look like they will be comfortable with developments for too long. With about 50% mortality the daily death toll is bound to rise, too:
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Urs Max for this useful post:
  #7239  
Old 14.04.2020, 21:55
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Coronavirus

Epidemiologists: we need to shut things down to save lives! Flatten the curve!

*lockdown ensues*

Fools: fewer people are dying...the epidemiologists were wrong
Reply With Quote
The following 6 users would like to thank for this useful post:
  #7240  
Old 14.04.2020, 22:17
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Zurich
Posts: 445
Groaned at 48 Times in 40 Posts
Thanked 1,002 Times in 498 Posts
John William has a reputation beyond reputeJohn William has a reputation beyond reputeJohn William has a reputation beyond reputeJohn William has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
There will be ample time for reflection, that's for sure. The definition of worthwhile will be different for different people though.

Remember that flattening the curve doesn't eliminate it. It spreads the cases out over time so as not to overwhelm the healthcare system. Few countries have the capacity to handle thousands of people needing intensive care at the same moment. Even China built hospitals in record time because they didn't have the capacity. We're going to be living with this virus and the effects of our leaders' choices for a long time.

Economically, it's clear the lockdowns are going to be seriously damaging. The scale tipping conversations will start, was the economic damage "worth" saving those lives. Many, many people think like V__ - that the disease only really hits old people who were going to die anyway. It's an oversimplified view, but millions will share it.

Nevermind that in many cases, not doing any restrictions would have led to overwhelmed healthcare systems and even more deaths. When you stop valuing human life simply because someone is elderly, imo that's taking society backwards.

My aunt lived to 101 and died in her sleep not of any illness. To say she was "going to die soon anyway" at age 80 is absurd.

Edit to add - I think we're looking back prematurely. This isn't over yet and we should be thinking about plans about what to do if a second wave hits.
I agree not imposing the lockdowns would have 'overwhelmed the various countries health care systems'
and no doubt where the lockdowns were imposed to good effect; gave the necessary leeway for
extra ICU's, beds and field hospitals to meet such an unprecedented demand caused by the Pandemic.

No matter whether you have an epidemic or a Pandemic these outbreaks come in waves, as can be seen
from what I've extracted about the Hong Kong flu pandemic of 1968, where the virus returned in
three waves in 1969, 1970 & 1972.

Therefore there's no reason to doubt that Covid19 will do the same and also be returning in waves
as well.

Which will mean that all these extra hospitals, ICU units and extra beds will have to remain operational
for at least four years or until a cure or antidote is found.

As in comparison to other pandemics, the Hong Kong flu yielded a low death rate, with a case-fatality
ratio below 0.5% making it a category 2 disease on the Pandemic Severity list.

The pandemic infected an estimated 500,000 Hong Kong residents or15% of the population.
This one striking in three waves with the second wave being deadlier than the first in most places.

The same virus returned in the following years: a year later, in late 1969 and early 1970 & in 1972.
The CDC currently estimates that, in total, the virus killed 1 million people worldwide and around
100,000 people in the U.S.
__________________
Surely the time has come for Boris to 'circle the wagons' for a bit of herd immunity ?
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
cold, corona, coronavirus, covid, covid-19, flu, health, medical, virus




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 10 (0 members and 10 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Coronavirus Jokes makeabigwish Daily life 258 19.10.2021 05:45
Coronavirus closed janvier Forum support 18 01.11.2020 13:12
Paid holidays and coronavirus Curtiss Employment 2 20.04.2020 09:22
Coronavirus scammers are out there - be warned Medea Fleecestealer Daily life 9 18.04.2020 18:53
Leaving Switzerland for UK during coronavirus barkingtreewolf Leaving Switzerland 19 11.04.2020 11:45


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 00:10.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0