The "socialists" must be shut down, didn't you know?

The funny part is people have no idea what socialism means if they use this term so loosely.

Everyone with a bit of common sense and who doesn't want to be a complete asshole neither on internet nor in real life is labeled "woke" or even worse - "socialist".....

When did I say they can't? But you're pushing buttons now and enjoying it.

Exactly!

First, positive test is not the same as ICU.

Second, see Edwin's post.

Third, you need to prove that refugees, asylants, etc are tested as often as the locals. Sweden has stopped broad testing three weeks ago, but refugees are under state care thus the state has increased responsibilities, which probably means much lower hurdles when it comes to testing, too.

Fourth, prove that they follow hygiene like the Swedes. The language barrier alone will make that very difficult, and then there is of of course the differen upbringing. And while you're at it, demonstrate that they're given enough space to respect social distancing.

Fifth and the killer:
Refugees are in the age groups where an infection is next to riskless. You will find hardly any ICU cases, almost regardless of how many have been tested positive.

Which buttons am I pushing? The ones that slowly but surely show that all of this has been a media hype and not much else? Or the fact that countries are slowly starting to go to Sweden's approach, seeing, no matter how effective lock down measures can seem, eventually societies need to reopen and what is 100% sure is that the virus will still be around?

Ski resorts closed in Sweden since ~2 weeks ago following advice of the Swedish goverment(s) to ease the burden of the local healthcare systems. Everyone was planning to ski on Easter break, say farewell to your vacation plans. I guess it's not a lockdown because kids go to school...who cares? https://www.skistar.com/en/myskistar...-about-corona/

Can you imagine the rate of infections in CH if it wasn't for the lockdown? Even so, being one week late was pretty bad.

Honestly you sound like Trump a few weeks ago. How on earth that doesn't amount for trolling is beyond me.

Who's they? Sweden?

Follow Swedish approach? They have high death rate to me, 1033 is a lot. Follow Austria with 393 or CZ with 167, they had the strictest measures, flattened fast and now are reopening. Why follow Sweden's approach when their slow inf rate growth does secure hospital care but still with many deaths? I see that they push for herd immunity, keep hischool and uni students at home to avoid young deaths and experienced brains deaths and leave at risk and older population to isolate, everyone else is out.

But you cannot expect the countries that are now already in the midst of fast and massive spread that risk thousands ending without medicail aid, to start following Swedish approach now.

The steps Austria and CZ opted for were timed and cascaded. Reopening the same way. Sweden had a different point of departure, countries around isolated Sweden, too, their steps were timed as well and linked to inf rate. None of these three SW, CZ or AUT followed EU guidance, btw there wasn't any except "keep the borders open".

Asking FR or UK to now follow the Swedish example would, imho, not yield the same results, they are too far along in the spread, no room for real containment nor timed herd immunity strategy any more. Aside of strict isolation for a few more weeks.

I understand that you worry about the economical impact of the complete shutdown, I think you are correct. It will be tragic. But following Swedish example now wouldn't help that, I don't think, it would be worse. En plus, people need to know that these big measures and sacrifice were done for a reason. You let them out now and you can start from square 1, with extra thousands of deaths and with a complete loss of trust in their leadership.

__________________
"L'homme ne peut pas remplacer son coeur avec sa tete, ni sa tete avec ses mains." J.H. Pestalozzi

“The only difference between a rut and a grave is a matter of depth.” S.P. Cadman

"Imagination is more important than knowledge." A. Einstein

I try to imagine and the only example I have is Sweden.

Not only nothing disastrous happened in Sweden, but they have had less infections/deaths compared to 12 other countries that did a lock down.

Switzerland is still at 900 corona deaths compared to 1500 deaths from a flu year.

You have an incredible amount of insight for someone who only joined this forum in December 2019. Which is your favourite champagne?

He doesn't need to be paid to manage owning 3 homes in 3 different countries.

All time favourite is 1982 Dom Perigean, served Verve Clicquot yellow at our wedding.

Yes, as Chuff already posted. Worth noting this sentence though EDIT: Sorry, saw the replies out of sequence, yours was the earlier one.

Flu - no lockdown.

CV - lockdown and already 900 extra deaths, on top of flu.

Why not avoid the extra menace? Don't worry about CH, there is very high level of autonomy and CH will not be dependent on foreign cash, imho. So I wouldn't worry about the impact of a possibly pointless lockdown on the economy too much. Worry about the EU and places that get paralyzed by lockdowns and dependent on the outside even more. It is not CH. I know you don't worry about us here. Who do you worry about?

Interestingly, on this graph we can see that the decline in daily deaths started around April 5, which can mean that the decline in infections began around mid-march, exactly when lockdown started (since infection-to-death takes ca. 3 weeks). But this is not certain either, even though death rate is probably more reliable than testing.

It is proof that the impact of the virus isn't bad as expected, the modeling used by the government meant that they expected far more ICU beds which is why they scaled up with the Nightingale Hospitals (an incredible achievement btw). What has happened is in fact that the beds haven't been required.

This matters because the purpose of the lock down (in the UK at least) was to "protect the NHS". So far this has worked and the NHS hasn't been overwhelmed. If the healthcare system is coping, then it opens up the rational to ending the lockdown.

Whilst I wouldn't say "only" hits old people, it is statistically far more likely to affect them than those under 65. Whilst there have been a number of fatalities of young people, statistically speaking, these are roughly no more than die in car accidents on any given day. This is why I support lifting the lockdown for everyone other than those most vulnerable.

Where can one find these guidelines? It doesn't make sense to me, I have had robust posts deleted when debating a topic for being aggressive and inflammatory, but see direct insults and name calling and foul language left alone. It doesn't make sense to me

Suppose you meant Dom Perignon?

I drank only once in my life and I think it's highly overrated.

But of course, not spending my days drinking might make me the ignorant one....

This has been discussed in depth on a number of UK programmes and it all comes back to one primary factor. We're only 5mths into this so there's no possible way of knowing what level of immunity can come from this, how and how long it will last. People who are apparently asymptomatic might have stronger immune systems but of the type that can produce antibodies without sending the white blood cells into overdrive attacking other organs and healthy tissue. They may have had a small initial viral load exposure. They may have practised scrupulous hygiene on returning home. There may be a high incidence of viral latency. Simple answer is, at this point in time, we don't know.

For anyone who doesn't understand viral latency, a common one in humans is herpes, particularly the herpes simplex virus commonly known as cold sores.

As someone posted earlier, we have to wait until Thursday-Friday's numbers, couple of days after the very low testing volume over Easter. Only after Friday we can be certain, but I hope the numbers will stay low...

Indeed. One aspect that has been mentioned by many doctors is the viral load exposure. Apparently it counts.

What is your prediction? They said on the local news last night that the officials are happy with how disciplined people were. I can already hear the traffic really picking up, compared to 2 wks ago.