Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Living in Switzerland > Daily life  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #7301  
Old 15.04.2020, 10:59
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: CH
Posts: 10,847
Groaned at 346 Times in 282 Posts
Thanked 15,875 Times in 8,105 Posts
greenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
Even you deleted one of his postings for trolling, but yet you allow him to keep doing the same thing over and over again.
The "socialists" must be shut down, didn't you know?

The funny part is people have no idea what socialism means if they use this term so loosely.

Everyone with a bit of common sense and who doesn't want to be a complete asshole neither on internet nor in real life is labeled "woke" or even worse - "socialist".....
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank greenmount for this useful post:
  #7302  
Old 15.04.2020, 11:03
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Formerly in Neuchatel
Posts: 3,041
Groaned at 231 Times in 158 Posts
Thanked 5,910 Times in 2,166 Posts
porsch1909 has a reputation beyond reputeporsch1909 has a reputation beyond reputeporsch1909 has a reputation beyond reputeporsch1909 has a reputation beyond reputeporsch1909 has a reputation beyond reputeporsch1909 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
Why can't one have a different opinion than everybody else?
When did I say they can't? But you're pushing buttons now and enjoying it.
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank porsch1909 for this useful post:
  #7303  
Old 15.04.2020, 11:08
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: SG
Posts: 9,388
Groaned at 499 Times in 370 Posts
Thanked 12,479 Times in 6,476 Posts
Urs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
Yes, like everything about corona in news you really need to scratch under the surface to get the big picture.

For some reason, most of the corona cases in Sweden are migrants from Somalia, Syria, Iraq. They fear this can be due a vitamin D deficiency as migrants make the majority of corona cases in Sweden
Exactly!

First, positive test is not the same as ICU.

Second, see Edwin's post.

Third, you need to prove that refugees, asylants, etc are tested as often as the locals. Sweden has stopped broad testing three weeks ago, but refugees are under state care thus the state has increased responsibilities, which probably means much lower hurdles when it comes to testing, too.

Fourth, prove that they follow hygiene like the Swedes. The language barrier alone will make that very difficult, and then there is of of course the differen upbringing. And while you're at it, demonstrate that they're given enough space to respect social distancing.

Fifth and the killer:
Refugees are in the age groups where an infection is next to riskless. You will find hardly any ICU cases, almost regardless of how many have been tested positive.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Urs Max for this useful post:
  #7304  
Old 15.04.2020, 11:14
V__'s Avatar
V__ V__ is offline
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Lausanne
Posts: 1,511
Groaned at 384 Times in 215 Posts
Thanked 2,082 Times in 866 Posts
V__ has a reputation beyond reputeV__ has a reputation beyond reputeV__ has a reputation beyond reputeV__ has a reputation beyond reputeV__ has a reputation beyond reputeV__ has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
When did I say they can't? But you're pushing buttons now and enjoying it.
Which buttons am I pushing? The ones that slowly but surely show that all of this has been a media hype and not much else? Or the fact that countries are slowly starting to go to Sweden's approach, seeing, no matter how effective lock down measures can seem, eventually societies need to reopen and what is 100% sure is that the virus will still be around?
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank V__ for this useful post:
  #7305  
Old 15.04.2020, 11:18
Axa's Avatar
Axa Axa is offline
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Suhr, Aargau
Posts: 3,434
Groaned at 40 Times in 40 Posts
Thanked 4,611 Times in 2,127 Posts
Axa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Ski resorts closed in Sweden since ~2 weeks ago following advice of the Swedish goverment(s) to ease the burden of the local healthcare systems. Everyone was planning to ski on Easter break, say farewell to your vacation plans. I guess it's not a lockdown because kids go to school...who cares? https://www.skistar.com/en/myskistar...-about-corona/
Reply With Quote
  #7306  
Old 15.04.2020, 11:19
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: CH
Posts: 10,847
Groaned at 346 Times in 282 Posts
Thanked 15,875 Times in 8,105 Posts
greenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
Which buttons am I pushing? The ones that slowly but surely show that all of this has been a media hype and not much else? Or the fact that countries are slowly starting to go to Sweden's approach, seeing, no matter how effective lock down measures can seem, eventually societies need to reopen and what is 100% sure is that the virus will still be around?
Can you imagine the rate of infections in CH if it wasn't for the lockdown? Even so, being one week late was pretty bad.

Honestly you sound like Trump a few weeks ago. How on earth that doesn't amount for trolling is beyond me.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank greenmount for this useful post:
  #7307  
Old 15.04.2020, 11:21
MusicChick's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: La Cote
Posts: 17,489
Groaned at 414 Times in 275 Posts
Thanked 20,428 Times in 10,577 Posts
MusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
Well they've already said numbers are so good that they will reopen faster than intended. So for me it's just a matter of time how quick other countries will follow their approach.
Who's they? Sweden?

Follow Swedish approach? They have high death rate to me, 1033 is a lot. Follow Austria with 393 or CZ with 167, they had the strictest measures, flattened fast and now are reopening. Why follow Sweden's approach when their slow inf rate growth does secure hospital care but still with many deaths? I see that they push for herd immunity, keep hischool and uni students at home to avoid young deaths and experienced brains deaths and leave at risk and older population to isolate, everyone else is out.

But you cannot expect the countries that are now already in the midst of fast and massive spread that risk thousands ending without medicail aid, to start following Swedish approach now.

The steps Austria and CZ opted for were timed and cascaded. Reopening the same way. Sweden had a different point of departure, countries around isolated Sweden, too, their steps were timed as well and linked to inf rate. None of these three SW, CZ or AUT followed EU guidance, btw there wasn't any except "keep the borders open".

Asking FR or UK to now follow the Swedish example would, imho, not yield the same results, they are too far along in the spread, no room for real containment nor timed herd immunity strategy any more. Aside of strict isolation for a few more weeks.

I understand that you worry about the economical impact of the complete shutdown, I think you are correct. It will be tragic. But following Swedish example now wouldn't help that, I don't think, it would be worse. En plus, people need to know that these big measures and sacrifice were done for a reason. You let them out now and you can start from square 1, with extra thousands of deaths and with a complete loss of trust in their leadership.
__________________
"L'homme ne peut pas remplacer son coeur avec sa tete, ni sa tete avec ses mains." J.H. Pestalozzi

“The only difference between a rut and a grave is a matter of depth.” S.P. Cadman

"Imagination is more important than knowledge." A. Einstein
Reply With Quote
  #7308  
Old 15.04.2020, 11:27
V__'s Avatar
V__ V__ is offline
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Lausanne
Posts: 1,511
Groaned at 384 Times in 215 Posts
Thanked 2,082 Times in 866 Posts
V__ has a reputation beyond reputeV__ has a reputation beyond reputeV__ has a reputation beyond reputeV__ has a reputation beyond reputeV__ has a reputation beyond reputeV__ has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
Can you imagine the rate of infections in CH if it wasn't for the lockdown? Even so, being one week late was pretty bad.

Honestly you sound like Trump a few weeks ago. How on earth that doesn't amount for trolling is beyond me.
I try to imagine and the only example I have is Sweden.

Not only nothing disastrous happened in Sweden, but they have had less infections/deaths compared to 12 other countries that did a lock down.

Switzerland is still at 900 corona deaths compared to 1500 deaths from a flu year.
Reply With Quote
  #7309  
Old 15.04.2020, 11:28
Blueangel's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Küsnacht, Switzerland
Posts: 4,111
Groaned at 122 Times in 106 Posts
Thanked 11,014 Times in 4,834 Posts
Blueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
Be a pretty boring forum if the fringe views were not allowed.

Don't forget the vocal minority on EF are generally wrong on the big topics, despite the noise and shouting down that takes place.
Trump election: wrong.
Brexit referendum: wrong.
Corbyn for PM: wrong.
Boris for PM: wrong.
Next Trump election: I'd chance my arm and say wrong.

Looks to me like everyone who posts carries the same weight, forum legend or not.
You have an incredible amount of insight for someone who only joined this forum in December 2019.
Quote:
View Post
Regardless, the popular opinion of the forum has been consistently wrong, plenty of very highly paid Champagne Socialists it partly responsible.
Which is your favourite champagne?
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank Blueangel for this useful post:
  #7310  
Old 15.04.2020, 11:32
Blueangel's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Küsnacht, Switzerland
Posts: 4,111
Groaned at 122 Times in 106 Posts
Thanked 11,014 Times in 4,834 Posts
Blueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
You not being very highly paid?

lol
He doesn't need to be paid to manage owning 3 homes in 3 different countries.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Blueangel for this useful post:
  #7311  
Old 15.04.2020, 11:37
fatmanfilms's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Verbier
Posts: 21,378
Groaned at 461 Times in 352 Posts
Thanked 23,091 Times in 11,824 Posts
fatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
Which is your favourite champagne?
All time favourite is 1982 Dom Perigean, served Verve Clicquot yellow at our wedding.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank fatmanfilms for this useful post:
  #7312  
Old 15.04.2020, 11:39
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Coronavirus

Yes, as Chuff already posted. Worth noting this sentence though
Quote:
Jeong Eun-kyeong, director of the Korea Centers for Disease Control and Prevention said during a briefing that the virus may have "reactivated" in the patients rather than them becoming reinfected,
EDIT: Sorry, saw the replies out of sequence, yours was the earlier one.
Reply With Quote
  #7313  
Old 15.04.2020, 11:40
MusicChick's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: La Cote
Posts: 17,489
Groaned at 414 Times in 275 Posts
Thanked 20,428 Times in 10,577 Posts
MusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
I try to imagine and the only example I have is Sweden.

Not only nothing disastrous happened in Sweden, but they have had less infections/deaths compared to 12 other countries that did a lock down.

Switzerland is still at 900 corona deaths compared to 1500 deaths from a flu year.
Flu - no lockdown.

CV - lockdown and already 900 extra deaths, on top of flu.

Why not avoid the extra menace? Don't worry about CH, there is very high level of autonomy and CH will not be dependent on foreign cash, imho. So I wouldn't worry about the impact of a possibly pointless lockdown on the economy too much. Worry about the EU and places that get paralyzed by lockdowns and dependent on the outside even more. It is not CH. I know you don't worry about us here. Who do you worry about?
Reply With Quote
  #7314  
Old 15.04.2020, 11:41
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 219
Groaned at 4 Times in 4 Posts
Thanked 181 Times in 94 Posts
jimk is considered knowledgeablejimk is considered knowledgeablejimk is considered knowledgeable
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
Some days ago I was about to leave a comment on the twitter of Daniel Probst, the guy behing corona-data.ch I saw other people already have done the same remark about how data from the last 2 days was still subject to change (insert fax machine joke here).

Now the plots at corona-data.ch take into account this delay caused by all the checks and balances (quality control) in the data processing, hats off to Mr. Probst.

Interestingly, on this graph we can see that the decline in daily deaths started around April 5, which can mean that the decline in infections began around mid-march, exactly when lockdown started (since infection-to-death takes ca. 3 weeks). But this is not certain either, even though death rate is probably more reliable than testing.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank jimk for this useful post:
  #7315  
Old 15.04.2020, 11:44
TonyClifton's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Hopefully soon to be Aargau
Posts: 1,674
Groaned at 589 Times in 336 Posts
Thanked 4,105 Times in 1,724 Posts
TonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
And I've twice explained why the beds are under capacity. There are now more ICU beds than before. You persist in trying to use that as proof Covid 19 is not as bad as expected. No?

Are you suggesting that all those listed above are both simple and easily treatable? Really? We underreacted to this new, particularly in the UK and US.
It is proof that the impact of the virus isn't bad as expected, the modeling used by the government meant that they expected far more ICU beds which is why they scaled up with the Nightingale Hospitals (an incredible achievement btw). What has happened is in fact that the beds haven't been required.

This matters because the purpose of the lock down (in the UK at least) was to "protect the NHS". So far this has worked and the NHS hasn't been overwhelmed. If the healthcare system is coping, then it opens up the rational to ending the lockdown.

Quote:
View Post
Economically, it's clear the lockdowns are going to be seriously damaging. The scale tipping conversations will start, was the economic damage "worth" saving those lives. Many, many people think like V__ - that the disease only really hits old people who were going to die anyway. It's an oversimplified view, but millions will share it.
Whilst I wouldn't say "only" hits old people, it is statistically far more likely to affect them than those under 65. Whilst there have been a number of fatalities of young people, statistically speaking, these are roughly no more than die in car accidents on any given day. This is why I support lifting the lockdown for everyone other than those most vulnerable.

Quote:
It could be argued that this posting of yours is trolling, certainly it's aggressive and inflammatory, against our posting rules and guidelines. Please tread more carefully.
Where can one find these guidelines? It doesn't make sense to me, I have had robust posts deleted when debating a topic for being aggressive and inflammatory, but see direct insults and name calling and foul language left alone. It doesn't make sense to me
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank TonyClifton for this useful post:
  #7316  
Old 15.04.2020, 11:46
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: CH
Posts: 10,847
Groaned at 346 Times in 282 Posts
Thanked 15,875 Times in 8,105 Posts
greenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
All time favourite is 1982 Dom Perigean, served Verve Clicquot yellow at our wedding.
Suppose you meant Dom Perignon?

I drank only once in my life and I think it's highly overrated.

But of course, not spending my days drinking might make me the ignorant one....
Reply With Quote
  #7317  
Old 15.04.2020, 11:47
Blueangel's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Küsnacht, Switzerland
Posts: 4,111
Groaned at 122 Times in 106 Posts
Thanked 11,014 Times in 4,834 Posts
Blueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
... I posted it probably 10 pages back I think) that mild infection (only up to a duration of 7 days) or asymptomatic infection will not assure that the patient will be sick enough to develop enough antibodies. They really talk of reinfection being possible.
This has been discussed in depth on a number of UK programmes and it all comes back to one primary factor. We're only 5mths into this so there's no possible way of knowing what level of immunity can come from this, how and how long it will last. People who are apparently asymptomatic might have stronger immune systems but of the type that can produce antibodies without sending the white blood cells into overdrive attacking other organs and healthy tissue. They may have had a small initial viral load exposure. They may have practised scrupulous hygiene on returning home. There may be a high incidence of viral latency. Simple answer is, at this point in time, we don't know.

For anyone who doesn't understand viral latency, a common one in humans is herpes, particularly the herpes simplex virus commonly known as cold sores.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank Blueangel for this useful post:
  #7318  
Old 15.04.2020, 11:48
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 219
Groaned at 4 Times in 4 Posts
Thanked 181 Times in 94 Posts
jimk is considered knowledgeablejimk is considered knowledgeablejimk is considered knowledgeable
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
For the first time, the Federal Office of Public Health recognizes that the peak of the first wave is behind us

We went from 1,300 positive cases at the height of the crisis to 254th Tuesday. ...
As someone posted earlier, we have to wait until Thursday-Friday's numbers, couple of days after the very low testing volume over Easter. Only after Friday we can be certain, but I hope the numbers will stay low...
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank jimk for this useful post:
  #7319  
Old 15.04.2020, 11:53
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: CH
Posts: 10,847
Groaned at 346 Times in 282 Posts
Thanked 15,875 Times in 8,105 Posts
greenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
This has been discussed in depth on a number of UK programmes and it all comes back to one primary factor. We're only 5mths into this so there's no possible way of knowing what level of immunity can come from this, how and how long it will last. People who are apparently asymptomatic might have stronger immune systems but of the type that can produce antibodies without sending the white blood cells into overdrive attacking other organs and healthy tissue. They may have had a small initial viral load exposure. They may have practised scrupulous hygiene on returning home. There may be a high incidence of viral latency. Simple answer is, at this point in time, we don't know.

For anyone who doesn't understand viral latency, a common one in humans is herpes, particularly the herpes simplex virus commonly known as cold sores.
Indeed. One aspect that has been mentioned by many doctors is the viral load exposure. Apparently it counts.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank greenmount for this useful post:
  #7320  
Old 15.04.2020, 11:55
MusicChick's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: La Cote
Posts: 17,489
Groaned at 414 Times in 275 Posts
Thanked 20,428 Times in 10,577 Posts
MusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
As someone posted earlier, we have to wait until Thursday-Friday's numbers, couple of days after the very low testing volume over Easter. Only after Friday we can be certain, but I hope the numbers will stay low...
What is your prediction? They said on the local news last night that the officials are happy with how disciplined people were. I can already hear the traffic really picking up, compared to 2 wks ago.

Last edited by MusicChick; 15.04.2020 at 12:21.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
cold, corona, coronavirus, covid, covid-19, flu, health, medical, virus




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 6 (1 members and 5 guests)
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Coronavirus Jokes makeabigwish Daily life 258 19.10.2021 05:45
Coronavirus closed janvier Forum support 18 01.11.2020 13:12
Paid holidays and coronavirus Curtiss Employment 2 20.04.2020 09:22
Coronavirus scammers are out there - be warned Medea Fleecestealer Daily life 9 18.04.2020 18:53
Leaving Switzerland for UK during coronavirus barkingtreewolf Leaving Switzerland 19 11.04.2020 11:45


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 00:36.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0