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Old 16.04.2020, 10:21
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Re: Coronavirus

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Stupid Italians and Spaniards, they should have let the virus do its thing unhindered. Is that what you're trying to say? If not, what would have been the alternative?
Also he seems to have the weird thought that if thousands of people die due to a new infectious disease that society and thus economy keep going as if nothing is happening..
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Old 16.04.2020, 10:23
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Re: Coronavirus

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The UK has also mentioned that they're only stating that the deceased had Covid at time of death, not that it was the main cause. During an autopsy do they count a person as a Covid victim or a flu victim if the deceased had both? I don't know about other countries.
Last paragraph of this https://www.englishforum.ch/daily-li...ml#post3155009 and these are the rules for the reporting of infectious diseases in the UK... https://www.gov.uk/guidance/notifiab...-how-to-report
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Old 16.04.2020, 10:24
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As light-spirited side note on the virus: the WHO has a death wish They say access to alcohol should be restricted during lockdown http://www.euro.who.int/en/health-to...uring-lockdown
Complete rubbish
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Alcohol does not protect against COVID-19;
Anyone with half a brain can see that it does, cos if you drink enough of it you're not going to be able to go out and interact with people to catch it in the first place.
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Old 16.04.2020, 10:25
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Re: Coronavirus

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From OFPS the current number is 973

No, today there are no 3000 people from corona in the hospitals. There have been 3000 hospitalizations SO FAR, half of those of a bad flu year

The numbers aren't scary if you read them correctly
These are the deaths that couldn't be prevented.

Obviously that's worlds apart from what would have happened had the virus had its way. The fact that you keep presenting the deaths that did occur as the maximum damage says you're either plain stupid or are trolling as it's been pointed out a gazillion times already.
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Old 16.04.2020, 10:33
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Re: Coronavirus

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It's all about perspective.

If you see, this article about a 2 million CHF therapy for a baby, you could think that it's an absurd amount (not covered by the insurance).

However, if the lock down would have saved a 1000 or even 10000 lives in Switzerland, we are talking about similar amounts of money.
How is a credit the same as an expense?
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Old 16.04.2020, 10:33
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Re: Coronavirus

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Stupid Italians and Spaniards, they should have let the virus do its thing unhindered. Is that what you're trying to say? If not, what would have been the alternative?
In both countries the current death numbers are in line of those of a bad flu season, nothing abnormal.

Currently in Spain 18k dead from corona, 15k dead from flu in 2018
Currently in Italy 21k dead from corona, 20k dead from flu in 2015

When you see the age range of the victims 90% are in the 80+, hence the risk to the general public is non existent. Even those from risk groups have between 80 and 90% chances of beating the virus

Instead of closing up the economy and making disastrous effects on everybody for the next 10 years, they could have isolated only those vulnerable.

What did Italy do in 2015 when there were 20k dead from flu? Did they close the borders and the healthy at home?
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  #7487  
Old 16.04.2020, 10:41
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Re: Coronavirus

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No facts follow, only speculation.
I don't think these are mostly additive, as the most at risk population is identical for both. Surely the overlap will mean that there are less flu deaths this year as Covid got there first for a lot of cases.
The UK has also mentioned that they're only stating that the deceased had Covid at time of death, not that it was the main cause. During an autopsy do they count a person as a Covid victim or a flu victim if the deceased had both? I don't know about other countries.
Basically they don't know if somebody had seasonal flu because there are no widely available test kits. This is why there are only estimates of the number of seasonal flu deaths.
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Old 16.04.2020, 10:42
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Re: Coronavirus

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These are the deaths that couldn't be prevented.

Obviously that's worlds apart from what would have happened had the virus had its way. The fact that you keep presenting the deaths that did occur as the maximum damage says you're either plain stupid or are trolling as it's been pointed out a gazillion times already.
No need to insult me just because the facts don't go along with your narrative

The fact that you think the virus is being stopped by measures - I find that funny. The measures were only put in place not to overload the hospitals and not to stop the virus, which didn't materialize for reasons that yet we haven't understood.

Sweden is a good example how their approach gives the same results. The spread and the danger of the virus is so concentrated and small, it makes no difference if you don't lock down measures in place and have death numbers those of a bad flu year or you do a complete lock down not to overload that hospitals, shut down the economy and arrive at the same results, with death rate those of a bad flu year.
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Old 16.04.2020, 10:48
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Re: Coronavirus

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Basically they don't know if somebody had seasonal flu because there are no widely available test kits. This is why there are only estimates of the number of seasonal flu deaths.
Additionally this is another reason for the undercounting of COVID-19 deaths in some countries (e.g. USA); they don't test the dead.
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Old 16.04.2020, 10:52
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Re: Coronavirus

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Additionally this is another reason for the undercounting of COVID-19 deaths in some countries (e.g. USA); they don't test the dead.
Oh don't you worry, corona deaths are being pumped like there is no tomorrow

Out of the 10k number in NY around 4000 were "presumed" to have corona, because they had some symptoms that could have been corona. I guess coughing is dangerous today
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Old 16.04.2020, 10:59
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Re: Coronavirus

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The fact that you think the virus is being stopped by measures - I find that funny. The measures were only put in place not to overload the hospitals and not to stop the virus, which didn't materialize for reasons that yet we haven't understood.
You're the only one (perhaps together with Tony) who claims that this about stopping it. Another thing you keep repeating even though it's obviously false.
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Old 16.04.2020, 11:03
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Re: Coronavirus

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Oh don't you worry, corona deaths are being pumped like there is no tomorrow

Out of the 10k number in NY around 4000 were "presumed" to have corona, because they had some symptoms that could have been corona. I guess coughing is dangerous today
When 4000 die from a cough, yeah its dangerous
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Old 16.04.2020, 11:05
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Re: Coronavirus

Flu is bad. Covid is bad. It's not a competition.
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Old 16.04.2020, 12:11
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Re: Coronavirus

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What did Italy do in 2015 when there were 20k dead from flu? Did they close the borders and the healthy at home?
What did x country do when people were dying by tens of thousands because of morbidities related to diabetes or heart conditions?

Seriously, you are constantly and deliberately ignoring how highly contagious this virus is and how rapidly is spreading. You're comparing apples to oranges.

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Flu is bad. Covid is bad. It's not a competition.
It is!!!!!
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Old 16.04.2020, 12:16
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Re: Coronavirus

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In both countries the current death numbers are in line of those of a bad flu season, nothing abnormal.

Currently in Spain 18k dead from corona, 15k dead from flu in 2018
Currently in Italy 21k dead from corona, 20k dead from flu in 2015
That's based on 2% of the population testing positive in Spain, and only some of those who (will have) die are already dead. If the epidemiologists are right with their 60-70% infection rate for herd immunity to work you're advocating for half a million dead in Spain alone. At least, and without taking the consequences of healthcare system overload into account.

And that's without actually knowing that immunisation fully works, let alone for how long. If you've been paying attention that's far from sure, South Korea for example says a significant number appear to have relapsed or not been immunised in the first place.

You're mad. And/or dumb. And/or a troll.
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Old 16.04.2020, 12:18
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Re: Coronavirus

There's an article on the Tages Anzeiger (behind paywall), on the plan from A. Berset to take back the current restrictions. THis one is open (FR): https://www.24heures.ch/suisse/berse...story/27083315
  • From April 27: coiffeurs, physiotherapists, garden centers and building materials shops.
  • From May 11: schools, and all other shops
  • From June : Bars and restaurants

The CH federal council is discussing now about these dates, expect a few days sooner or later.
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Old 16.04.2020, 12:24
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Re: Coronavirus

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There's an article on the Tages Anzeiger (behind paywall), on the plan from A. Berset to take back the current restrictions. THis one is open (FR): https://www.24heures.ch/suisse/berse...story/27083315
  • From April 27: coiffeurs, physiotherapists, garden centers and building materials shops.
  • From May 11: schools, and all other shops
  • From June : Bars and restaurants

The CH federal council is discussing now about these dates, expect a few days sooner or later.
From May 11: some schools. I don't know what they mean by "some schools".
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Old 16.04.2020, 12:56
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Re: Coronavirus

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From May 11: some schools. I don't know what they mean by "some schools".
Allegedly, primary schools: https://www.tdg.ch/suisse/alain-bers...story/28220277
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Old 16.04.2020, 12:59
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Re: Coronavirus

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The fact that you think the virus is being stopped by measures - I find that funny. The measures were only put in place not to overload the hospitals and not to stop the virus, which didn't materialize for reasons that yet we haven't understood.

Sweden is a good example how their approach gives the same results. The spread and the danger of the virus is so concentrated and small, it makes no difference if you don't lock down measures in place and have death numbers those of a bad flu year or you do a complete lock down not to overload that hospitals, shut down the economy and arrive at the same results, with death rate those of a bad flu year.
geez, hopeless case
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Old 16.04.2020, 13:07
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Re: Coronavirus

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geez, hopeless case
Troll.

But apparently promoting "fake news" is not considered trolling on EF, apparently is good for debate etc etc etc
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