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Old 27.04.2020, 09:53
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Re: Coronavirus

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a bit off topic, but it is interesting to go back read the beginning of this conversation dating back in January.

So many people calling this fake news
Very nice point. I thought I'd resurrect a few for posterity. Just from the first page...:

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More noise....the ultra-scary SARS killed about 700 people and roughly 9% of the infected died. This coronovirus outbreak seems to be even more mild. Just to put things in perspective, tomorrow more people will die from tripping on the street than from any coronovirus.
Yep, currently running at maybe 7,000 daily officially from Corvid. Now how many tripping on the street?

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Agree. Classic FAKE NEWS.....
In perspective, the seasonal flu will most likely kill more people this year.

"When we think about the relative danger of this new coronavirus and influenza, there’s just no comparison,” said Dr. William Schaffner, a professor of preventive medicine and health policy at Vanderbilt University Medical Center. “Coronavirus will be a blip on the horizon in comparison. The risk is trivial.”"....
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Come on! Join in the hysteria....
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In 2 weeks time the worse wil be over, and in a month the despairing would have moved onto something else to wring their hands about, probably Trump if there's nothing else on the market.
Really?
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  #8342  
Old 27.04.2020, 10:19
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Re: Coronavirus

I was partially right, people are still hysterica and wringing their hands, but on the same topic.
Timing was slightly off, by a couple of years I expect.
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  #8343  
Old 27.04.2020, 10:22
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Re: Coronavirus

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I was partially right, people are still hysterica and wringing their hands, but on the same topic.
Timing was slightly off, by a couple of years I expect.
Given the general content of your posts I can only say one thing.

YOU WERE DEAD WRONG.

No more, no less.
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  #8344  
Old 27.04.2020, 10:40
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Re: Coronavirus

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I was partially right, people are still hysterica and wringing their hands, but on the same topic.
Timing was slightly off, by a couple of years I expect.
Well they are still wringing their hands as part of the government recommended thorough clean with disinfectant, I've seen more hand wringing in public than ever before with set ups outside supermarkets to accommodate them.
I foresee this trend continuing for years.
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Old 27.04.2020, 10:43
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Re: Coronavirus

Unfortunately the measures imposed by corona panic seemed to have killed more people in Austria due to lack of medical care compared to the corona virus.

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Our study does not provide data on mortality; however, considering the annual incidence of ACS in Austria (200/100 000/year = 17 600/year in 8.8 million habitants)1 and taking into consideration sudden cardiac deaths and silent infarctions (one-third), there will remain ∼1000 ACS cases a month. The difference between the assumed number of ACS patients and the observed number in our study, i.e. 725 ACS patients in calendar weeks 10–13 is 275. According to these assumptions, 275 patients were not treated in March 2020. Based on data showing that the cardiovascular mortality of untreated ACS patients might be as high as 40% (as it was in the 1950s),2 we can theoretically estimate 110 ACS deaths during this time frame. The number of deaths associated with this unintentional undersupply of guideline-directed ACS management is very alarming, particularly when considering that the official number of COVID-related deaths in Austria was 86 on 29 March.
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  #8346  
Old 27.04.2020, 11:09
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Re: Coronavirus

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Unfortunately the measures imposed by corona panic seemed to have killed more people in Austria due to lack of medical care compared to the corona virus.
The statistics aren't published yet but there evidence is mounting of this in the UK too. The numbers turning up and A&E are a fraction of what they normally are. Less heart attacks, less strokes, less cancer referrals. Did the UK suddenly get a whole lot healthier? Of course not!

As of last week of the approximately 20,000 deaths in the UK, less than 20 people under 45 had died of Coronavirus (you can imagine how many column inches they got though). There will be libraries of books written about the unnecessary self harm we've inflicted upon ourselves.
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  #8347  
Old 27.04.2020, 11:09
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Re: Coronavirus

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Unfortunately the measures imposed by corona panic seemed to have killed more people in Austria due to lack of medical care compared to the corona virus.
Nothing to do with the measures whatsoever, medical care was available to all those people. Very unfortunately they chose not to seek it but their (stupid) choice, not caused by lockdown

OTOH Austria's fast reaction (several days ahead of CH in terms of virus spread) has probably saved about 1,000 lives so far (difference Austria - Switzerland). So 1,000 saved vs. 110 unnecessarily dead.
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Old 27.04.2020, 11:12
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Re: Coronavirus

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The statistics aren't published yet but there evidence is mounting of this in the UK too. The numbers turning up and A&E are a fraction of what they normally are. Less heart attacks, less strokes, less cancer referrals. Did the UK suddenly get a whole lot healthier? Of course not!

As of last week of the approximately 20,000 deaths in the UK, less than 20 people under 45 had died of Coronavirus (you can imagine how many column inches they got though). There will be libraries of books written about the unnecessary self harm we've inflicted upon ourselves.
Again zero directly to do with the lockdown and probably would be exactly the same (or even worse due the what would be then higher level of CV) without a lockdown. There's been a decent level of info in the UK pressing people to go to their doctor/hospital

Last edited by baboon; 27.04.2020 at 11:48. Reason: Clarification
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Old 27.04.2020, 11:13
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Re: Coronavirus

I live close to a Jumbo. Last Saturday there was line of trucks waiting to deliver stuff. From the outside I could see the plants section was entirely refilled. We're slowly going back to normal, enjoy
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Old 27.04.2020, 11:18
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Re: Coronavirus

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I live close to a Jumbo. Last Saturday there was line of trucks waiting to deliver stuff. From the outside I could see the plants section was entirely refilled. We're slowly going back to normal, enjoy
Is morally o.k. to make bets how many deaths we will see during the 2nd wave?
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Old 27.04.2020, 11:21
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Re: Coronavirus

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Is morally o.k. to make bets how many deaths we will see during the 2nd wave?
Probably not.

Anyhow I reckon it will only be the June opening that kicks that off. Or whenever bars etc. reopen.
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Old 27.04.2020, 11:24
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Re: Coronavirus

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Is morally o.k. to make bets how many deaths we will see during the 2nd wave?
Plants from Jumbo yes, people probably not.
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  #8353  
Old 27.04.2020, 11:28
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Re: Coronavirus

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The statistics aren't published yet but there evidence is mounting of this in the UK too. The numbers turning up and A&E are a fraction of what they normally are. Less heart attacks, less strokes, less cancer referrals. Did the UK suddenly get a whole lot healthier? Of course not!

As of last week of the approximately 20,000 deaths in the UK, less than 20 people under 45 had died of Coronavirus (you can imagine how many column inches they got though). There will be libraries of books written about the unnecessary self harm we've inflicted upon ourselves.
The numbers weren't published in that article either. Just a theoretical estimate.

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Our study does not provide data on mortality; however, considering the annual incidence of ACS in Austria (200/100 000/year = 17 600/year in 8.8 million habitants)1 and taking into consideration sudden cardiac deaths and silent infarctions (one-third), there will remain ∼1000 ACS cases a month. The difference between the assumed number of ACS patients and the observed number in our study, i.e. 725 ACS patients in calendar weeks 10–13 is 275. According to these assumptions, 275 patients were not treated in March 2020. Based on data showing that the cardiovascular mortality of untreated ACS patients might be as high as 40% (as it was in the 1950s),2 we can theoretically estimate 110 ACS deaths during this time frame.

Last edited by porsch1909; 27.04.2020 at 12:12. Reason: Spelling mistake
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  #8354  
Old 27.04.2020, 11:33
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Re: Coronavirus

If they estimate how many died due to the restrictions, I'd like to see for avoidable ones and unavoidable ones, if somebody feels a serious pain for days and decides to skip the doctor due to Corona then we can't really blame the restrictions. Also it be nice to then see an estimate of how many would have died if we'd done like nothing, must be nice going to a hospital for an operation if hospitals are flooded with highly infectious patients..
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Old 27.04.2020, 11:37
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Re: Coronavirus

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Is morally o.k. to make bets how many deaths we will see during the 2nd wave?
I'm lazy enough to access betfair.com from CH trough a proxy. But, I'm sure they have some covid19 related bets.

I'd be more worried about coiffeurs. In the following days they'll have a lot of clients. I can wait for another month, or two.
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  #8356  
Old 27.04.2020, 11:39
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Re: Coronavirus

The UK Paediatric Intensive Care Society have just issued a warning re children:

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Rising no of cases presenting to #PedsICU with multi-system hyperinflammatory state, overlapping features of toxic shock syndrome & atypical Kawasaki disease, bloods consistent with severe #COVID19 - seen in both #SARSCoV2 PCR +ve AND -ve

Please share widely
https://twitter.com/PICSociety/statu...08725227982848
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Old 27.04.2020, 11:41
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Re: Coronavirus

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Unfortunately the measures imposed by corona panic seemed to have killed more people in Austria due to lack of medical care compared to the corona virus.
It's a bit premature to assume that it's only due to the lockdown. Correlation does not prove causation, and the authors admit as much. "Our study does not provide data on mortality..." [edit - porsch is faster and less wordy ]

More evidence is coming to light about the cardiac effects the virus has on people, even those who don't show many symptoms. This "observational study" is basically looking at some numbers and making assumptions. It's not proof of anything (yet, more studies needed).

Look at the (now) first-known Covid-19 case in the USA. The woman was presumed dead of a heart attack. Her husband requested an autopsy. The autopsy showed she died from a ruptured heart valve, which is pretty rare for someone with no known heart issues and no high cholesterol. Tissue samples tested by the CDC show she had Covid-19. A forensic pathologist who reviewed the report has said she thinks "The immune system was attacking the virus and in attacking the virus it damaged the heart and then the heart basically burst."

https://www.sacbee.com/news/coronavi...242304536.html

It continues to raise the question - when does someone die OF Covid-19 vs WITH Covid-19.
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Old 27.04.2020, 11:41
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Re: Coronavirus

Another sad consequence of the lockdown

UK lockdown: Calls to domestic abuse helpline jump by half

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-52433520
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Old 27.04.2020, 11:42
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Re: Coronavirus

Fuller version (non-tweet) of the warning

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“[In the] last three weeks, there has been an apparent rise in the number of children of all ages presenting with a multi-system inflammatory state requiring intensive care across London and also in other regions of the UK.

“There is a growing concern that a [Covid-19] related inflammatory syndrome is emerging in children in the UK, or that there may be another, as yet unidentified, infectious pathogen associated with these cases.”

There is little information about how widespread the condition is but the number of children affected is likely to be small, the HSJ reports. Some of the children have tested positive for Covid-19, and some appear to have previously had the virus, it adds.

The alert, first issued to GPs in north London, also describes the cases as showing features of toxic shock syndrome and Kawasaki disease, which causes blood vessels to become inflamed. It advised doctors to “refer children presenting with these symptoms as a matter of urgency”.
Not certain it's Covid. But if you read a bit deeper looking likely.

Now what was that about it not being important coz it doesn't affect young people?
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Old 27.04.2020, 11:48
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Re: Coronavirus

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I live close to a Jumbo. Last Saturday there was line of trucks waiting to deliver stuff. From the outside I could see the plants section was entirely refilled. We're slowly going back to normal, enjoy
The line of people waiting to get in to they Jumbo here at 8.30 this morning was staggering.
I knew it would be busy but didn’t think it would be quite that busy.
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