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  #8421  
Old 28.04.2020, 11:37
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Re: Coronavirus

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It's no use guys we will have to give up our bikes - it's bad for your health.

The Metro - Kawasaki symptoms may be linked to Coronavirus, experts in UK & Italy warn

But he's breathing fresh air, it's an open face helmet.....useless
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Old 28.04.2020, 11:44
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Re: Coronavirus

The BAG/OFSP has released new graphs from their data:

https://covid-19-schweiz.bagapps.ch/de-1.html
https://covid-19-schweiz.bagapps.ch/de-2.html
https://covid-19-schweiz.bagapps.ch/de-3.html

The positive rate in tests for the virus keeps falling. People with symptoms gets scared, goes to the hospital and the outcome is NO

Last edited by Axa; 28.04.2020 at 11:57. Reason: 3wishes spotted a mistake ;)
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  #8423  
Old 28.04.2020, 11:47
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Re: Coronavirus

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Double this. Although I don't believe Samaire 13 is trolling, hence my question above.
I suspect some people are seeing things only from the economic perspective. I know economists are terribly scared of the potential/imminent economic crash, and rightly so. We'll find solutions, we'll have to adjust. I can agree with some points but ignoring or downplaying the human and medical/sanitary dimensions of this crisis is plainly wrong.
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  #8424  
Old 28.04.2020, 11:54
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Re: Coronavirus

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The BAG/OFSP has released new graphs from their data:

https://covid-19-schweiz.bagapps.ch/de-1.html
https://covid-19-schweiz.bagapps.ch/de-2.html
https://covid-19-schweiz.bagapps.ch/de-3.html

The negative rate in tests for the virus keeps falling. People with symptoms gets scared, goes to the hospital and the outcome is NO
If the negative rate is falling, doesn't that mean the positive rate is going up? I think you mean the number of positives is going down, and therefore the negatives are going up.

Unfortunately 6 weeks ago we didn't have the testing capacity so people were told not to get tested unless they were sick enough to need hospitalization. There are probably many thousands who've had it and recovered. It would be nice to know those numbers at some point so we have a more complete picture. That's where widespread antibody testing (once we have a solid, accurate one) comes in.
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Old 28.04.2020, 11:58
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Re: Coronavirus

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If the negative rate is falling, doesn't that mean the positive rate is going up? I think you mean the number of positives is going down, and therefore the negatives are going up.

Unfortunately 6 weeks ago we didn't have the testing capacity so people were told not to get tested unless they were sick enough to need hospitalization. There are probably many thousands who've had it and recovered. It would be nice to know those numbers at some point so we have a more complete picture. That's where widespread antibody testing (once we have a solid, accurate one) comes in.

You're right, it's the positive rate that keeps falling. I need another coffee
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Old 28.04.2020, 12:05
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Re: Coronavirus

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I suspect some people are seeing things only from the economic perspective. I know economists are terribly scared by the potential/imminent economic crash, and rightly so. We'll find solutions, we'll have to adjust. I can agree with some points but ignoring or downplaying the human and medical/sanitary dimensions of this crisis is plainly wrong.
It is possible to take coronavirus seriously, worry about the economy and also be concerned about the expansion of government control at the same time. These positions aren't exclusive. I think it's a sad reflection of the partisan times in which we live that topics are not able to be discussed with the accusation of "Troll!" being hurled at people who don't share a particular view point.

I took Coronavirus seriously from the outset, and would have supported a stringent short lockdown, travel ban and border closures in order to prevent its spread. However most reacted too late, and when it became clear to me that the damage being done by the lockdown outweighed the benefits I moved to a position of easing it whilst maintaining measures to slow the spread of the virus (use of masks, social distancing, continuation of lockdown for the vulnerable).

People have to remember that there is no correct answer to this, the science isn't agreed upon and everyone is just flying by the seat of their pants!
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  #8427  
Old 28.04.2020, 12:19
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Re: Coronavirus

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I took Coronavirus seriously from the outset, and would have supported a stringent short lockdown, travel ban and border closures in order to prevent its spread. However most reacted too late, and when it became clear to me that the damage being done by the lockdown outweighed the benefits I moved to a position of easing it whilst maintaining measures to slow the spread of the virus (use of masks, social distancing, continuation of lockdown for the vulnerable).

People have to remember that there is no correct answer to this, the science isn't agreed upon and everyone is just flying by the seat of their pants!
Sure, but Australia and New Zealand seem to have made the right seat-of-the-pants decisions. So much so that community transmission of the coronavirus in NZ has been eliminated... for now, at least.
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Old 28.04.2020, 12:25
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Re: Coronavirus

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There are probably many thousands who've had it and recovered. It would be nice to know those numbers at some point so we have a more complete picture. That's where widespread antibody testing (once we have a solid, accurate one) comes in.
Random antibody testing in New York City indicates that some 25% of the population there have been infected with the coronavirus. That's a high percentage, but still way short of the numbers required for herd immunity (around 70%), if indeed immunity is possible (and the WHO currently warns that that's not guaranteed at all).

NYC has seen 292,000 confirmed cases of COVID-19. If all SARS-CoV-2 infections were classified as COVID-19 cases (which would technically be correct), that number understates the real number of cases by a factor of almost 10 (extrapolating the random test results, there would be more than 2 million infections in NYC alone; double the current confirmed total for the entire USA).
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  #8429  
Old 28.04.2020, 12:31
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Re: Coronavirus

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Sure, but Australia and New Zealand seem to have made the right seat-of-the-pants decisions. So much so that community transmission of the coronavirus in NZ has been eliminated... for now, at least.
Yes, they stand out as having dealt very well with the situation, they acted quickly and have the added advantage of being isolated countries with low populations in relation to their size. Perhaps Europe and the US could have learned something with the speed of reaction, however once that boat was missed, I think it is hard to make comparisons with Australia and New Zealand for the reasons I mentioned.

Iceland has also dealt well with the Coronavirus, but again it is an isolated country with a population of 350 thousand people.
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Old 28.04.2020, 12:36
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Re: Coronavirus

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Yes, they stand out as having dealt very well with the situation, they acted quickly and have the added advantage of being isolated countries with low populations in relation to their size.
The size of Australia (in particular) is not relevant here. Some 80% or more of the population of Australia is urban, crammed together into 10 or so cities, some of which are considerably more populous than entire European countries. Population density in the inner areas of these cities is very high. (The population density of the suburb of Sydney where I used to live is 9,648 per square kilometre; for Greater London, it's 4,542, and Zürich is similar at 4,700.)

The UK (minus NI) is also an island...
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Old 28.04.2020, 12:45
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Re: Coronavirus

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Yes, they stand out as having dealt very well with the situation, they acted quickly and have the added advantage of being isolated countries with low populations in relation to their size. Perhaps Europe and the US could have learned something with the speed of reaction, however once that boat was missed, I think it is hard to make comparisons with Australia and New Zealand for the reasons I mentioned.

Iceland has also dealt well with the Coronavirus, but again it is an isolated country with a population of 350 thousand people.
You can still miss the boat and do ok, CH style. I think if you react fast even if you miss the first two weeks and have the resources for PPE and quick adjustment, it's ok. I wouldn't know at all what to think or imagine if the deconfinement goes wrong, I think by now there are multiple scenarios of crisis management ready here. Which is reassuring. Together with the local, swift vaccine research. I think it goes together with Koch's change in terms of grandparents and grandkids.
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  #8432  
Old 28.04.2020, 12:46
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Re: Coronavirus

At the start of the pandemic in CH and right through the most infective time and up till now hardly any people wore masks. ( they even laughed at SVP Blocher's daughter for wearing one ). And now when the virus is on the wane so many people suddenly start using masks. Illogical!

Last edited by omtatsat; 28.04.2020 at 13:10.
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Old 28.04.2020, 13:03
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Re: Coronavirus

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If the negative rate is falling, doesn't that mean the positive rate is going up? I think you mean the number of positives is going down, and therefore the negatives are going up.

Unfortunately 6 weeks ago we didn't have the testing capacity so people were told not to get tested unless they were sick enough to need hospitalization. There are probably many thousands who've had it and recovered. It would be nice to know those numbers at some point so we have a more complete picture. That's where widespread antibody testing (once we have a solid, accurate one) comes in.
Yes it's a mystery of how big Boris Johnson's 'herd immunity' community is growing.


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Old 28.04.2020, 13:10
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Re: Coronavirus

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At the start of the pandemic in CH and right through the most infective time and up till now hardly any people wore masks. And now when the virus is on the wane so many people suddenly start using masks. Illogical!
You do not need a mask when you are sitting at home and get out once every 2 wks, while keeping a safe distance and covered by a handsanitizer. Or maybe let's say, you need it less. Than now when some business opened, some daycares did too, more traffic, more crowds, more commotion. And when the system has in the meantime managed to secure enough masks for those who need it the most and can say that the masks do help curb the transmission.

It is quite logical, actually.
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Old 28.04.2020, 13:15
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Re: Coronavirus

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You do not need a mask when you are sitting at home and get out once every 2 wks, while keeping a safe distance and covered by a handsanitizer. Or maybe let's say, you need it less. Than now when some business opened, some daycares did too, more traffic, more crowds, more commotion. And when the system has in the meantime managed to secure enough masks for those who need it the most and can say that the masks do help curb the transmission.

It is quite logical, actually.
Nobody in Zürich sat in their house for two weeks.They went out and without a mask or whatever. And Berset even said its useless wearing a mask! There are just as few people on the street as before ( in Zürich )-also with the opening of Tattoo shops and Hairdressers
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Old 28.04.2020, 13:20
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Re: Coronavirus

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Nobody in Zürich sat in their house for two weeks.They went out and without a mask or whatever. And Berset even said its useless wearing a mask!
What would happen if he said it is useful. There would be even fewer available for those whose lives were at risk or really would be if the IT, FR, UK or US scenario copied here.

Last edited by MusicChick; 28.04.2020 at 14:42.
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Old 28.04.2020, 13:21
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Re: Coronavirus

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The size of Australia (in particular) is not relevant here. Some 80% or more of the population of Australia is urban, crammed together into 10 or so cities, some of which are considerably more populous than entire European countries. Population density in the inner areas of these cities is very high. (The population density of the suburb of Sydney where I used to live is 9,648 per square kilometre; for Greater London, it's 4,542, and Zürich is similar at 4,700.)

The UK (minus NI) is also an island...
The UK has dealt with the Coronavirus particularly badly. Mixed messages from the outset, semi-lockdown whilst the borders remained completely open (they grounded flights in Australia and New Zealand whilst 15000 people a day are landing in the UK), weird obsession with protecting the NHS rather than actual people, the economy or society. I'd have had more respect for them if they'd have stuck with their original herd immunity strategy rather than the confused mess they ended up with! When an inquiry is eventually held, it won't shed a good light on the UK government response.
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Old 28.04.2020, 13:23
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Re: Coronavirus

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What would happen if he said it is useful. There would be even fewer available for those who's lives were at risk or really would be if the IT, FR, UK or US scenario copied here.
There were plenty of masks to buy-Amazon etc etc. Was never a problem if you really wanted them.
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Old 28.04.2020, 13:23
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Re: Coronavirus

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The BAG/OFSP has released new graphs from their data:

https://covid-19-schweiz.bagapps.ch/de-1.html
https://covid-19-schweiz.bagapps.ch/de-2.html
https://covid-19-schweiz.bagapps.ch/de-3.html

The positive rate in tests for the virus keeps falling. People with symptoms gets scared, goes to the hospital and the outcome is NO
They have some nice graphics of numbers of tests within Kantons but I have never seen any actual numbers. Has anybody found a way into the database behind the graphics?
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Old 28.04.2020, 13:25
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Re: Coronavirus

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What would happen if he said it is useful. There would be even fewer available for those who's lives were at risk or really would be if the IT, FR, UK or US scenario copied here.
So now its suddenly useful? Berset is a joke
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