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Old 28.04.2020, 15:29
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Re: Coronavirus

My understanding (not saying it's right or wrong) for being able to buy some things and not others in the same store is to discourage people from going out specifically for non-essential items.
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Old 28.04.2020, 15:38
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Re: Coronavirus

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My understanding (not saying it's right or wrong) for being able to buy some things and not others in the same store is to discourage people from going out specifically for non-essential items.
I guess this is to stop abuse. An electrical appliance retailer suddenly offering loaves of bread and claiming it also a food store, and also to stop unfair competition, e.g. an food store suddenly selling washing machines.
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Old 28.04.2020, 15:40
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Re: Coronavirus

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I appreciate that this is just one of many points of view but, if you were totally honest here and were in intensive care in hospital breathing your last breaths because of COVID-19 running rampant, would you just say to yourself "Oh, well, shit-happens" or would you think that more should have been done to protect people.

I guess what I am asking myself is whether your actions would be more powerful than your words here on this forum, and whether really you're just a cowardly keyboard warrior?
There comes a point where people have be responsible for protecting themselves.
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Old 28.04.2020, 15:44
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Re: Coronavirus

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Thanks.



And this too.

If you take away a massive amount of civil liberties, ruin the economy and risk political disaster, then yes, I want proof that that's worth it.

Nonsensical things like not being able to buy a book vs being totally able to buy groceries or not being able to buy flowers or socks when they’re literally next to the laundry detergent, which I am allowed to buy? Even more nonsensical things like being able to grab a sandwich, but not a coffee?

And why shut borders if the virus is everywhere anyway? No logical reason at this point. Also, to believe this was predominantly about health when it was a hugely political matter from the get-go is really naive.

I .
to be fair proof as you define it is impossible coz its not an experiment redone many times. but many things point to lockdown being more than a correlation. people in lockdown are not getting sick while people on the front line are getting sick.

I don't know what your situation is but maybe youre just more prepared to take risks than most people, or maybe youre not in a risky situation and would just like a coffee. but who care about buying flowers except to throw off a bridge for the dead people? the whole flower-business is more than just opening a counter and creating risk for the flower-wrapper. it's everyone in the delivery chain and not everyone will think its worth the risk. I mean, look at the stark differences between infection rates in the low-value added service sector and the high value added. in the usa of course these two different types of workers tend to live in clearly defined areas which makes assessing infection rates easier. people who work in shops and on transport etc are way higher likely to get infected and die than people who can work their snazzy jobs from home on the computer.

to be fair, maybe your own job is one that would put you at risk and you're prepared to take that risk but the govt has to think of the aggregate, has to take advice from experts, and has to think of getting elected next time round. you know the political class in say the usa for example would push people back out into the plague and see what happens if they could, but its an election year so better not. it's interesting to note that its the american states that have been gerrymandered up the wazoo so much that the ruling party is practically guaranteed, these are the only ones fully opened.

finally I think the logic behind border closure is to stop the virus re-spreading and re/spreading and even mutating and all that business.
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  #8465  
Old 28.04.2020, 15:45
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Re: Coronavirus

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Yeah. That was really not the point.

But that's ok - you read what you want to read.

As for disinfecting: not necessary and if there was, then there's no difference between disinfecting a whole bookstore or a whole grocery store.
The entire point is not transmitting the virus and one of the main ways that can happen is through contaminated hands touching items that others might touch, hand rails, cash, etc. Because of this, Asda and Aldi in the UK have introduced 'no touch' rules.

https://www.independent.co.uk/life-s...-a9477396.html

General question: Why is it that the people who talk of 'panic' are the same people who reject common sense precautions regarding virus transmission, which are not dissimilar to standard hygiene rules regarding bacterial contamination, cross-contamination, etc...
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Old 28.04.2020, 16:01
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Re: Coronavirus

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There comes a point where people have be responsible for protecting themselves.
I was hoping he'd answer for himself rather than get one of his chums to do it for him.
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Old 28.04.2020, 16:02
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Re: Coronavirus

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My understanding (not saying it's right or wrong) for being able to buy some things and not others in the same store is to discourage people from going out specifically for non-essential items.
However if you get a few non essential items at the same time it really won't make a difference. Interestingly DIY shops have started to open in France, huge run on paint, hardly surprising as if you are stuck at home you may as well get some jobs done & make good use of the time.
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Old 28.04.2020, 16:05
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Re: Coronavirus

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My understanding (not saying it's right or wrong) for being able to buy some things and not others in the same store is to discourage people from going out specifically for non-essential items.
Yep.

And it be highly unfair and would make zero sense if the toy store has to close and the Coop can keep their toy department open.
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Old 28.04.2020, 16:07
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Re: Coronavirus

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...to be fair, maybe your own job is one that would put you at risk...
I think this is a fair point and the decent thing to do (given the standpoint), would be to state whether their job put them at great risk.
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Old 28.04.2020, 16:07
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Re: Coronavirus

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However if you get a few non essential items at the same time it really won't make a difference.
It might not make much of a difference to the specific store, but how do you explain the store around the corner that they have to close while another store stays allowed to sell the same stuff. It would make no sense and create false competition.
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Old 28.04.2020, 16:12
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Re: Coronavirus

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However if you get a few non essential items at the same time it really won't make a difference. Interestingly DIY shops have started to open in France, huge run on paint, hardly surprising as if you are stuck at home you may as well get some jobs done & make good use of the time.
It's the 'at the same time' part that's contentious. Are they going to inspect people's trolleys to make sure they have mostly essential items and just a few non-essential? I don't think so. What if you want a book so you go out for the book but get some 'essential' items so that it's ok. Not really encouraging people to not go out with loopholes like that.

So I imagine they decided to just have a blanket ban on non-essentials so if you're going out then you are definitely only doing it for essentials.
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Old 28.04.2020, 16:13
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Re: Coronavirus

I had to go to Landi to get water softener salt and a few other 'slightly' essential items.

Whilst there, I noticed that the aisles selling garden gnomes, decorative frogs, painted metal flamingos were firmly closed off.
I think I can safely say that at least something good has resulted from the lock-down.
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Old 28.04.2020, 16:39
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Re: Coronavirus

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Yeah. That was really not the point.

But that's ok - you read what you want to read.

As for disinfecting: not necessary and if there was, then there's no difference between disinfecting a whole bookstore or a whole grocery store.
Of course it's necessary. The virus stays on surfaces.
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Old 28.04.2020, 16:55
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Re: Coronavirus

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I appreciate that this is just one of many points of view but, if you were totally honest here and were in intensive care in hospital breathing your last breaths because of COVID-19 running rampant, would you just say to yourself "Oh, well, shit-happens" or would you think that more should have been done to protect people.

I guess what I am asking myself is whether your actions would be more powerful than your words here on this forum, and whether really you're just a cowardly keyboard warrior?
Yes, of course if I was hooked up to a ventilator I would be feeling very sorry for myself and very likely I would be feeling bitter. The likelihood of that happening though is very small indeed. First, I would have to be unfortunate enough to catch the virus whilst following advice (wearing a mask, social distancing, use of hand sanitizer) and then I would have to be really unlucky once having it to end up on a ventilator (the vast majority recover). What I'm trying to say is that this is about managing the risk.

It's not about being a keyboard warrior and what I said is not meant to be uncompassionate. Just that there are hard trade-offs that need to be made, and all things considered we have to accept we're going to be living with this virus for a long time to come. Lockdown is undoubtedly saving lives in the short term however it's not a long term solution considering the damage and lives being lost as a result of it.
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Old 28.04.2020, 17:00
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Re: Coronavirus

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Yes, of course if I was hooked up to a ventilator I would be feeling very sorry for myself and very likely I would be feeling bitter. The likelihood of that happening though is very small indeed. First, I would have to be unfortunate enough to catch the virus whilst following advice (wearing a mask, social distancing, use of hand sanitizer) and then I would have to be really unlucky once having it to end up on a ventilator (the vast majority recover). What I'm trying to say is that this is about managing the risk.

It's not about being a keyboard warrior and what I said is not meant to be uncompassionate. Just that there are hard trade-offs that need to be made, and all things considered we have to accept we're going to be living with this virus for a long time to come. Lockdown is undoubtedly saving lives in the short term however it's not a long term solution considering the damage and lives being lost as a result of it.
And if you are in a situation where ending the lockdown would prevent you from social distancing etc? How would you feel then?
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Old 28.04.2020, 17:08
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Re: Coronavirus

The Swiss Federal Council press conferences have been boring lately, until yesterday. https://youtu.be/UQ7QAxURxNU?t=3663

Eric Jakob, economic promotion at SECO, said "I would postpone trips abroad until next year" or something like that.

The Swiss tourism industry immediately requested an apology from Mr. Jakob since the guy in charge of economic promotion basically said do not spend money on travel https://abouttravel.ch/industrie-des...s-officielles/

I have a flight for 06.07.2020. Hope flights across the Atlantic are back by then.

Last edited by Axa; 28.04.2020 at 17:24.
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Old 28.04.2020, 17:35
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Re: Coronavirus

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The Swiss Federal Council press conferences have been boring lately, until yesterday. https://youtu.be/UQ7QAxURxNU?t=3663

Eric Jakob, economic promotion at SECO, said "I would postpone trips abroad until next year" or something like that.

The Swiss tourism industry immediately requested an apology from Mr. Jakob since the guy in charge of economic promotion basically said do not spend money on travel https://abouttravel.ch/industrie-des...s-officielles/

I have a flight for 06.07.2020. Hope flights across the Atlantic are back by then.
I was talking to a Swiss flight attendant this week. Passenger flights are very much reduced of course.
They have a new scheme for freight flights. In many lands, the crew cannot leave the plane. On long flights, they now have two crews, one for the flight to and the other for the flight back. They sleep on the plane and have a flight attendant along to organise the meals.
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Old 28.04.2020, 17:42
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Re: Coronavirus

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And if you are in a situation where ending the lockdown would prevent you from social distancing etc? How would you feel then?
I would be annoyed by having to wear a mask. But seriously, this lockdown or social distancing cannot go forever. I am not saying it has to end today because the curves blah blah, I am saying this cannot go forever. So we need to find other ways to go about it.
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Old 28.04.2020, 17:48
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I would be annoyed by having to wear a mask. But seriously, this lockdown or social distancing cannot go forever. I am not saying it has to end today because the curves blah blah, I am saying this cannot go forever. So we need to find other ways to go about it.
I don't disagree but if your objection to the continuance of the lockdown is predicated upon your being able to social distance, wear masks and generally safeguard yourself as you wish, then that is a very different kettle of fish to knowing that you are not, for whatever reason, realistically going to be able to do any of those things.
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Old 28.04.2020, 19:47
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Re: Coronavirus

I really can't watch one more report on TV or read one more report on Corona virus. It brings one to Kotzen!

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