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Old 01.05.2020, 14:25
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Re: Coronavirus

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Sweden. No lockdown. Fewer infected than CH but a few more deaths. And thats with NO lockdown! And Sweden has greater population than CH
Spread out over a much, much bigger area so less chance of person to person transmission (although most of them live in the same areas, granted).
There's not much difference in population sizes too.

Sweden: 450,000Km2. (10 million people)
Switzerland: 41,000Km2. (nearly 9 million people)
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  #8682  
Old 01.05.2020, 14:36
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Re: Coronavirus

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I have a question for the likes who may dabble in the medical profession. Now, the guy from BAG stated that kids under the age of 10 cannot be vectors of the disease because they lack the necessary receptors. Now, I'm confused, does cardboard have the required receptors? How is the virus supposed to exist on cardboard for up to 48h but somehow manages to slip away from kids under the age of 10?
This would also mean, that Covid19 is the only respiratory virus, where kids are not vectors.
I think that the important similarity between children and cardboard, in this context, is that neither are (easily) infected by the virus. Of course, the virus can passively sit on either for a number of hours but that is it. Somebody or something which is actually infected is much more infectious than someone/something that is not infected. But I suppose this also all depends on how broad the definition of vector was meant to be in this statement. From here, we see this qualification of vector : "most agents regarded as vectors are organisms". Organisms being a category which tends to include children and tends to rule out cardboard. Having said that, the quote goes on to acknowledge a definition whereby inanimate objects could also be vectors.
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  #8683  
Old 01.05.2020, 15:25
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Re: Coronavirus

In the meantine, press at home focuses on identifying 7 typical errors in Covid19 behavior:
  • underestimating the risk ("une petite grippette", poor hygiene, insufficient hand washing)
  • no masks, no distance from other humans
  • denial that one belongs to one of the risk groups
  • touching too many things
  • poor nutrition in confinement
  • not enough fresh air, not being outside
  • stressful information overload, too much social media and panicky news

It made me think a bit and adjust our plans. Though being in the rain for 2hrs yesterday wasn't ideal.

Source:https://www.idnes.cz/onadnes/zdravi/...vi_job#space-a
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  #8684  
Old 01.05.2020, 15:33
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Re: Coronavirus

Water droplets containing the virus will land on cardboard, the virus and water will soak into the cardboard, sticking loosely to the surface. Cardboard has no "receptor" for the virus. A receptor is usually a protein on the surface a (human) cell that binds specifically to the virus and may start the process of entry of the virus into the cell. The virus just does not get in anywhere, it usually needs a receptor protein that it binds to strongly. It is logical, though not a must that children have a lower number of receptors for the virus
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Old 01.05.2020, 15:42
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Re: Coronavirus

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Water droplets containing the virus will land on cardboard, the virus and water will soak into the cardboard, sticking loosely to the surface. Cardboard has no "receptor" for the virus. A receptor is usually a protein on the surface a (human) cell that binds specifically to the virus and may start the process of entry of the virus into the cell. The virus just does not get in anywhere, it usually needs a receptor protein that it binds to strongly. It is logical, though not a must that children have a lower number of receptors for the virus
Thank you for this explanation. Well, as stated by the dude, Koch I believe his name is. Kids don't have the receptors, which I don't think is feasible at all.
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Old 01.05.2020, 16:13
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Re: Coronavirus

Does anyone know if Ticino is closed down for commute within Switzerland? I was planning on travelling from Zurich canton to the Lugano area by car this weekend.
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  #8687  
Old 01.05.2020, 16:21
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Re: Coronavirus

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Sweden. No lockdown. Fewer infected than CH but a few more deaths. And thats with NO lockdown! And Sweden has greater population than CH
Check out the yearly deaths in Sweden:



Around 90k a year. Do you think additional 2500 deaths (of which, half have been in retirement homes) will change much on the general population picture?

Here are the all the deaths in CH since 2010 until last week. We had nearly the same number of deaths in 2013! No lock down, no media terror, so nobody was scared!

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Old 01.05.2020, 17:19
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Re: Coronavirus

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Check out the yearly deaths in Sweden:

Around 90k a year. Do you think additional 2500 deaths (of which, half have been in retirement homes) will change much on the general population picture?

So far, 2653 deaths. 2,653 / 90,000 yields ~2.95% additional deaths and the event has not yet ended. Only 2 months.
https://experience.arcgis.com/experi...6f9f87457ed9aa
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  #8689  
Old 01.05.2020, 17:27
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Re: Coronavirus

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Sweden. No lockdown. Fewer infected than CH but a few more deaths. And thats with NO lockdown! And Sweden has greater population than CH
Again, Sweden tests alot fewer people than what Switzerland does.
At the 14th of April Switzerland had tested 200 000 people.
Sweden at the same time had tested only 60 000 by then.
So the real number of COVID-19 smitten people is way higher in Sweden than what has been reported.

Why?
Because the Swedish government had not deemed it necessary to test that much until the 20th of April and the health care ministry were praising herd immunity and also preached that people should not worry and go out and enjoy the sun. Then, about 2 weeks ago, they suddenly realized the value of testing way more people than what they had done before.
After seeing great results from South corea, Iceland, New Zeeland, Estonia and Switzerland.
See the attachment named COVID-19-Testing-chart.

If you want a better figure of comparison, check the Death chart instead.
See my attachment. Sweden has 900 more COVID-19 related deaths than Switzerland.
So since Sweden is not even close to the testing ratio of Switzerland, do you think that the correct number of COVID-19 smitten people in Sweden is fair?
Switzerland has tested way more than twice as much people than Sweden has.
Attached Thumbnails
coronavirus-swedenvsswitzerlandcovid-19.png   coronavirus-covid-19-testing-chart.png  
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  #8690  
Old 01.05.2020, 17:45
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Re: Coronavirus

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You could buy books online and have them delivered. If buying them online doesn't appeal to you, why the shop experience appeals to you more? I keep hearing "I miss browsing for a book in a real shop". It's the physical act of browsing, touching items that you might not be taking away with you, that they were trying to eliminate. Can you even begin to imagine having to disinfect an entire book shop?!!

I found that peculiar too until I remembered that I usually have to rifle through a number of items on the rail before I find my size. Again, it's the touching items that you're not taking away with you.

I had to dig for this post because I was following this discussion a couple of days ago and it made me think of one of my favourite things in the whole universe - bookstores. I understand Samaire, I miss that experience too. But if we are to be honest, there are no (more) "indie" bookstores in CH, all we do is to browse in a couple of Orell Füssli's or Lüthy's - which I like it, of course, but ordering my books online will keep their business up too so....


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Have you tried disinfecting books?
True. The virus suvirves the least amount of time on paper though (and "natural" materials - wool etc). One wouldn't need to disinfect books, just to disinfect their own hands. I doubt many would do it though.
I don't know how would social distance be possible there too. I don't want to be rushed by the next client in line. I want to take my time and the whole set of measure would defeat the purpose of visiting a ''real' bookshop.

Same with book club meetings. Online, move it online....everything you can. For the time being. We have one and it was more active during corona times.
I can't remember how many times I tried to organise meetings at my place or elsewhere and there were women canceling it in the last moment because of their kids/hsbands' schedules etc We'll thrive more now.

Last edited by greenmount; 01.05.2020 at 18:01. Reason: typos etc
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Old 01.05.2020, 18:09
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Re: Coronavirus

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Here are the all the deaths in CH since 2010 until last week. We had nearly the same number of deaths in 2013! No lock down, no media terror, so nobody was scared!

the sane conclusion: thank goodness for the lockdown in 2020, otherwise the number of weekly deaths would be how many times higher?
As for the additional deaths in Sweden: I would be highly pissed off just to be one of those additional deaths.
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Old 01.05.2020, 18:21
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Re: Coronavirus

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Thank you for this explanation. Well, as stated by the dude, Koch I believe his name is. Kids don't have the receptors, which I don't think is feasible at all.
The argument is that kids in contrast to adults do have different expression levels of specific receptors that are either involved in the early stage of infection and/or defense against viral infection. Accordingly, it would make it more difficult for kids to get infected. AFAIK there have in fact been some studies that support that argument, e.g. a recent study which showed that risk of infection for young kids is lower than for kids/adults between 15-65, and that risk of infection is highest for people above 65.
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  #8693  
Old 01.05.2020, 19:16
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Re: Coronavirus

Don't know if you all saw this, but Spain committed to a date today. October 1st for opening borders to any tourists outside of Spain. Everybody is going to have Staycations this summer. https://www.msn.com/fr-be/actualite/...FW72WBVXbZ0m1I
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Old 01.05.2020, 19:18
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Re: Coronavirus


" CORONAVIRUS LATEST UPDATE...


The English are feeling the pinch in relation to current virus threat and have therefore raised their threat level
from “Miffed” to “Peeved.” ...... "







Would be fun to hear people's guess at the Swiss escalation levels ...
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Old 01.05.2020, 19:33
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Re: Coronavirus

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Don't know if you all saw this, but Spain committed to a date today. October 1st for opening borders to any tourists outside of Spain. Everybody is going to have Staycations this summer. https://www.msn.com/fr-be/actualite/...FW72WBVXbZ0m1I
Unlikely to be up to them for within EU/Schengen and other reports don't say the same thing. Unless of course ALL of EU/Schengen decides to do that.

Of course should Spain indeed be able and choose to decide to go this route, they will be bankrupt long before October and have an unemployment rate of 30%+.

It also made sense PRE-pandemic spread to keep borders closed. By now? Highly questionable, at least, again, as a default, large-scale measure.
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Old 01.05.2020, 20:10
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Re: Coronavirus

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Unlikely to be up to them for within EU/Schengen and other reports don't say the same thing. Unless of course ALL of EU/Schengen decides to do that.

Of course should Spain indeed be able and choose to decide to go this route, they will be bankrupt long before October and have an unemployment rate of 30%+.

It also made sense PRE-pandemic spread to keep borders closed. By now? Highly questionable, at least, again, as a default, large-scale measure.
So, you think it is unlikely for Spain to be able to dictate when they open their own borders? You think that Brussels is going to decide this? Yeah, no.
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Old 01.05.2020, 20:18
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Re: Coronavirus

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So, you think it is unlikely for Spain to be able to dictate when they open their own borders? You think that Brussels is going to decide this? Yeah, no.
180B a year from tourism alone will be the deciding factor. People need jobs to survive as well.
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Old 01.05.2020, 20:19
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Re: Coronavirus

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So, you think it is unlikely for Spain to be able to dictate when they open their own borders? You think that Brussels is going to decide this? Yeah, no.
Brussels explicitly dictating - maybe, maybe not.

At the very least trying to find a concerted effort that applies for all EU/Schengen - you bet.

It sure as hell will be very much in the EU's interest to not have the entire freaking South dissolve into bankruptcy and 25, 30%, 35% unemployment.
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Old 01.05.2020, 21:06
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Re: Coronavirus

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Sweden. No lockdown. Fewer infected than CH but a few more deaths. And thats with NO lockdown! And Sweden has greater population than CH
Deaths per million are the key numbers here.
Switzerland 203
Sweden 263

The other Nordic countries
Norway 39
Finland 39
Denmark 79
Estonia 39
Latvia 8
Lithiania 17

And stretching the map a bit
Poland 17
Germany 80
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Old 01.05.2020, 21:19
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Re: Coronavirus

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Spread out over a much, much bigger area so less chance of person to person transmission (although most of them live in the same areas, granted).
There's not much difference in population sizes too.

Sweden: 450,000Km2. (10 million people)
Switzerland: 41,000Km2. (nearly 9 million people)
Country size is largely irrelevant, the qestion is how the dwellings are spread/concentrated over the country.

The US have ~36 residents per km2. According to the 2010 US census
Urbanized Areas (50k residents or more) hold 70% of the population
Urban Clusters (2.5k-50k) hold 10% of the population
Rural(<2.5k) towns and areas hold 21% of the population

In Sweden (27 rsidents per km2), the towns with at least 20k residents have 5.4mln residents in total, some 53% of the population, whereas the same in CH (206 residents per km2 or almost 8 times denser than Sweden and ~6 times the US) have only 2.4mln residents or 28%.
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