Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Living in Switzerland > Daily life  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #9741  
Old 20.05.2020, 12:45
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
I understand. It doesn't say though that you can be fined if you wear one.
Mouth mask are obligatory.
Only non-medical masks allowed.
Breaking the rule is 95,-

How you want to interpretate that is up to you.
Reply With Quote
  #9742  
Old 20.05.2020, 12:57
Axa's Avatar
Axa Axa is online now
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Suhr, Aargau
Posts: 3,701
Groaned at 44 Times in 44 Posts
Thanked 4,949 Times in 2,298 Posts
Axa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
Mouth mask are obligatory.
Only non-medical masks allowed.
Breaking the rule is 95,-

How you want to interpretate that is up to you.

Can they still wear a medical-level mask under a burka without risking a fine?
Reply With Quote
  #9743  
Old 20.05.2020, 13:07
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 8,592
Groaned at 305 Times in 232 Posts
Thanked 19,689 Times in 6,860 Posts
k_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
Mouth mask are obligatory.
Only non-medical masks allowed.
Breaking the rule is 95,-

How you want to interpretate that is up to you.

Actually, the website has contradicting texts.

First this:
Quote:
Is een niet-medisch mondkapje verplicht in het openbaar vervoer?

Ja, vanaf 1 juni 2020 is een niet-medisch mondkapje verplicht voor reizigers van 13 jaar en ouder en OV-personeel.

Then this
Quote:
Ik heb geen mondkapje, mag ik met het openbaar vervoer?

Nee, u mag dan niet reizen met het openbaar vervoer. Een mondkapje is vanaf 1 juni 2020 verplicht voor reizigers van 13 jaar en ouder. U kunt een niet-medisch mondkapje dragen. Bekijk de voorbeeldinstructie voor een niet-medisch mondkapje. Reist u toch zonder mondkapje met het openbaar vervoer? Dan kunt u een boete krijgen van € 95.
Reply With Quote
This user groans at k_and_e for this post:
  #9744  
Old 20.05.2020, 13:37
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
Actually, the website has contradicting texts.

First this:

Then this
Let's agree to completely disagree. I feel no need for such non-discussion.
Reply With Quote
This user groans at for this post:
  #9745  
Old 20.05.2020, 13:40
Belgianmum's Avatar
Roastbeef & Yorkshire mod
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Neuchâtel
Posts: 13,305
Groaned at 241 Times in 202 Posts
Thanked 22,264 Times in 9,097 Posts
Belgianmum has a reputation beyond reputeBelgianmum has a reputation beyond reputeBelgianmum has a reputation beyond reputeBelgianmum has a reputation beyond reputeBelgianmum has a reputation beyond reputeBelgianmum has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
Actually, the website has contradicting texts.

First this:



Then this
My Dutch knowledge is pretty rusty but I didn’t think it said that medical face masks were forbidden, I understood it to mean that face masks were obligatory but non medical masks were ok. The fine is for not wearing any mask at all as I understand it.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Belgianmum for this useful post:
  #9746  
Old 20.05.2020, 13:43
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
Can they still wear a medical-level mask under a burka without risking a fine?
Under the name of religion way to much is possible/allowed....

Burka are illegal in public transport in the Netherlands but hardly anybody cares, so they'll get away with it.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank for this useful post:
  #9747  
Old 20.05.2020, 13:48
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
My Dutch knowledge is pretty rusty but I didn’t think it said that medical face masks were forbidden, I understood it to mean that face masks were obligatory but non medical masks were ok. The fine is for not wearing any mask at all as I understand it.
It only allows non-medical mouth masks, this automatically makes medical mouth masks illegal.
Reply With Quote
This user groans at for this post:
  #9748  
Old 20.05.2020, 14:09
Axa's Avatar
Axa Axa is online now
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Suhr, Aargau
Posts: 3,701
Groaned at 44 Times in 44 Posts
Thanked 4,949 Times in 2,298 Posts
Axa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
Under the name of religion way to much is possible/allowed....

Burka are illegal in public transport in the Netherlands but hardly anybody cares, so they'll get away with it.
That was my poor attempt at humor while pointing at the absurdities and contradictions of the situation.

Laws and regulations take a long time to setup precisely to avoid contradictions or unintended consequences. In contrast, rushed regulations for the virus are full of holes and contradictions. I may be naive but I believe there's people able to think and decide in lawmaking and law enforcement.

I'd expect that the enforcement of imperfect regulations is done with a great deal of personal judgement. To begin with, can the police tell the difference between a non-medical and a medical mask in a packed tram? Let's assume all police officers are trained to tell the difference, will they fine the person for wearing an illegal mask when the overall goal (spirit of the regulation) is to ensure all people while riding public transport wears a mask?

I'd say your friend and family can wear those masks, no need to give it a second thought. Unless your friend has as hobby dissecting dumb regulations.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Axa for this useful post:
  #9749  
Old 20.05.2020, 14:22
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
That was my poor attempt at humor while pointing at the absurdities and contradictions of the situation.

Laws and regulations take a long time to setup precisely to avoid contradictions or unintended consequences. In contrast, rushed regulations for the virus are full of holes and contradictions. I may be naive but I believe there's people able to think and decide in lawmaking and law enforcement.

I'd expect that the enforcement of imperfect regulations is done with a great deal of personal judgement. To begin with, can the police tell the difference between a non-medical and a medical mask in a packed tram? Let's assume all police officers are trained to tell the difference, will they fine the person for wearing an illegal mask when the overall goal (spirit of the regulation) is to ensure all people while riding public transport wears a mask?

I'd say your friend and family can wear those masks, no need to give it a second thought. Unless your friend has as hobby dissecting dumb regulations.
Police will not get involved to much in this I guess, it will be mostly the so called stadswachten "city guards", sort of a semi police force which has a lot of long term unemployed people with low education in the ranks so they can gain working experience while being underpaid and who can't handle the uniform and powers given to them, often resulting in very bad judgement.

We'll see how it turns out.
Reply With Quote
  #9750  
Old 20.05.2020, 14:30
curley's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: canton ZH
Posts: 13,132
Groaned at 218 Times in 182 Posts
Thanked 15,264 Times in 7,847 Posts
curley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
Really wondering what you searched for if you found nothing, it really is in every Dutch paper and every news site.

https://www.rijksoverheid.nl/onderwe...ven/mondkapjes.....
Dunno. I looked for gezichtsmasker, maybe that was the mistake.

However, you made it sound as if any "proper" facemasks are totally illegal to be worn on public transport. Your link now sounds more like one must cover one's mouth but a medical mask is not necessary. A reasonable demand to me and doable for anyone.

And <<Mondkapjes die worden verkocht in bijvoorbeeld supermarkten en drogisterijen kunnen worden gebruikt in het openbaar vervoer>> which is were average people buy their facemasks.

However, sorry I ruined the outrage.
Reply With Quote
  #9751  
Old 20.05.2020, 14:33
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
Dunno. I looked for gezichtsmasker, maybe that was the mistake.

However, you made it sound as if any "proper" facemasks are totally illegal to be worn on public transport. Your link now sounds more like one must cover one's mouth but a medical mask is not necessary. A reasonable demand to me and doable for anyone.

And <<Mondkapjes die worden verkocht in bijvoorbeeld supermarkten en drogisterijen kunnen worden gebruikt in het openbaar vervoer>> which is were average people buy their facemasks.

However, sorry I ruined the outrage.
You're making one huge mistake in your translation.

You type: but a medical mask is not necessary.

But it is like this: but a medical mask is forbidden.

PS: Gezichtsmasker is used for those liquids one smears all over their face.
Reply With Quote
  #9752  
Old 20.05.2020, 14:49
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 8,592
Groaned at 305 Times in 232 Posts
Thanked 19,689 Times in 6,860 Posts
k_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
You're making one huge mistake in your translation.

You type: but a medical mask is not necessary.

But it is like this: but a medical mask is forbidden.

PS: Gezichtsmasker is used for those liquids one smears all over their face.

It states clearly that a non-medical mask is obligatory. Not that a medical mask is forbidden.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank k_and_e for this useful post:
The following 2 users groan at k_and_e for this post:
  #9753  
Old 20.05.2020, 14:56
Ato Ato is offline
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: ZH
Posts: 1,719
Groaned at 19 Times in 19 Posts
Thanked 3,210 Times in 1,308 Posts
Ato has a reputation beyond reputeAto has a reputation beyond reputeAto has a reputation beyond reputeAto has a reputation beyond reputeAto has a reputation beyond reputeAto has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Careful with references people. Some people read them.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Ato for this useful post:
  #9754  
Old 20.05.2020, 15:08
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
It states clearly that a non-medical mask is obligatory. Not that a medical mask is forbidden.
Just read that again yourself......

I'm so done with this bull-shit discussion over something so clear and simple. Do you want to stack them?
Reply With Quote
This user groans at for this post:
  #9755  
Old 20.05.2020, 15:14
Axa's Avatar
Axa Axa is online now
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Suhr, Aargau
Posts: 3,701
Groaned at 44 Times in 44 Posts
Thanked 4,949 Times in 2,298 Posts
Axa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
Police will not get involved to much in this I guess, it will be mostly the so called stadswachten "city guards", sort of a semi police force which has a lot of long term unemployed people with low education in the ranks so they can gain working experience while being underpaid and who can't handle the uniform and powers given to them, often resulting in very bad judgement.

We'll see how it turns out.
If badly prepared people is in charge of law enforcement, that IS the problem. What the laws effectively say it's only a minor one.
Reply With Quote
  #9756  
Old 20.05.2020, 15:32
Axa's Avatar
Axa Axa is online now
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Suhr, Aargau
Posts: 3,701
Groaned at 44 Times in 44 Posts
Thanked 4,949 Times in 2,298 Posts
Axa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

I was joking a few days ago that while gatherings of more than 5 people was subject to a fine....the Bern police did nothing during a protest with 100+ people. My mistake, the Bern police did something: protesters are banned from Bern for 4 weeks. https://www.thelocal.ch/20200520/ber...own-protesters
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Axa for this useful post:
  #9757  
Old 20.05.2020, 16:26
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 8,592
Groaned at 305 Times in 232 Posts
Thanked 19,689 Times in 6,860 Posts
k_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
Just read that again yourself......

I'm so done with this bull-shit discussion over something so clear and simple. Do you want to stack them?

Then stop posting incorrect information and don't shoot the messenger
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank k_and_e for this useful post:
The following 3 users groan at k_and_e for this post:
  #9758  
Old 20.05.2020, 17:31
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
Then stop posting incorrect information and don't shoot the messenger
Strange than that even Dutch parliament members are asking questions about why people should be fined for using FFP2 masks while on public transport inside parliament.

Or why public transport companies currently are re-negotiating with government about:

„Alleen niet-medische maskers zonder CE-markering mogen tijdens het reizen met het OV vanaf 1 juni gebruikt worden.”

Translate yourself I'd say since clearly you think that you understand Dutch language and how Dutch rulings should be explained better than I myself, Dutch politicians and the transport companies.

https://www.nrc.nl/nieuws/2020/05/15...-neus-a3999884
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank for this useful post:
  #9759  
Old 20.05.2020, 17:54
Belgianmum's Avatar
Roastbeef & Yorkshire mod
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Neuchâtel
Posts: 13,305
Groaned at 241 Times in 202 Posts
Thanked 22,264 Times in 9,097 Posts
Belgianmum has a reputation beyond reputeBelgianmum has a reputation beyond reputeBelgianmum has a reputation beyond reputeBelgianmum has a reputation beyond reputeBelgianmum has a reputation beyond reputeBelgianmum has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
Translate yourself I'd say since clearly you think that you understand Dutch language and how Dutch rulings should be explained better than I myself, Dutch politicians and the transport companies.
Well he is Dutch so in theory he should understand it all just as well as you do.

It doesn’t say that they will impose fines for wearing a medical face mask here:

https://www.government.nl/topics/cor...s-for-everyone

And here it says people who don’t wear a face mask can be fined. No mention of fines for wearing a medical mask.

https://www.dutchnews.nl/news/2020/0...lic-transport/
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Belgianmum for this useful post:
The following 2 users groan at Belgianmum for this post:
  #9760  
Old 20.05.2020, 18:17
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
Well he is Dutch so in theory he should understand it all just as well as you do.

It doesn’t say that they will impose fines for wearing a medical face mask here:

https://www.government.nl/topics/cor...s-for-everyone
It also does not say one can get a fine when having an orgy with 100 adults in a barn, or when sitting in the park with to many people to close to each other, however hundreds of fines for such (the latest) have been handed out.
Quote:
And here it says people who don’t wear a face mask can be fined. No mention of fines for wearing a medical mask.
Government has in their rulings stated clearly which are the allowed masks inside public transport, so explain to me how one does not qualify for a fine if one does not follow that ruling? How about we don't use weird sites in foreign languages to proof actual governmental sites wrong. It's like I would use an article of the local.ch in an attempt to proof a ruling on admin.ch being wrong.

PS: In the same small part they have about the 1st of June they also claim that the fine still has to be decided upon, which is rubbish since it has been set to 95,- yesterday already.

Amazing discussion this, you'll amaze me. And if he is Dutch he should be ashamed by his lack of understanding of all of this.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank for this useful post:
This user groans at for this post:
Reply

Tags
cold, corona, coronavirus, covid, covid-19, flu, health, medical, virus




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 2 (0 members and 2 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Coronavirus Jokes makeabigwish Daily life 278 06.12.2021 15:58
Coronavirus closed janvier Forum support 18 01.11.2020 14:12
Paid holidays and coronavirus Curtiss Employment 2 20.04.2020 10:22
Coronavirus scammers are out there - be warned Medea Fleecestealer Daily life 9 18.04.2020 19:53
Leaving Switzerland for UK during coronavirus barkingtreewolf Leaving Switzerland 19 11.04.2020 12:45


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 00:28.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0