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  #9761  
Old 20.05.2020, 19:45
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Re: Coronavirus

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Let's agree to completely disagree. I feel no need for such non-discussion.
I think we got Erwin on this one!
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  #9762  
Old 20.05.2020, 20:08
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Re: Coronavirus

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Government has in their rulings stated clearly which are the allowed masks inside public transport, so explain to me how one does not qualify for a fine if one does not follow that ruling?

Nobody can explain that as the text is contradictory but this is exactly how it is stated on the government site, which I am trying to make clear by literally quoting from there.



Starting a groanfest and giving me a red blob with some insulting message just makes me laugh. Relax a bit man.
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  #9763  
Old 20.05.2020, 20:36
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Re: Coronavirus

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Nobody can explain that as the text is contradictory but this is exactly how it is stated on the government site, which I am trying to make clear by literally quoting from there.



Starting a groanfest and giving me a red blob with some insulting message just makes me laugh. Relax a bit man.
Do you want to stack them? I asked.

Last edited by EdwinNL; 20.05.2020 at 20:48.
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  #9764  
Old 20.05.2020, 21:08
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Re: Coronavirus

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It only allows non-medical mouth masks, this automatically makes medical mouth masks illegal.
That is your interpretation of it, it doesn’t necessarily make it correct.

You’re actually the only person making it a big deal, you say you don’t want to continue this bullshit discussion (your words) yet you just keep on going.
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  #9765  
Old 20.05.2020, 21:42
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Re: Coronavirus

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I was joking a few days ago that while gatherings of more than 5 people was subject to a fine....the Bern police did nothing during a protest with 100+ people. My mistake, the Bern police did something: protesters are banned from Bern for 4 weeks. https://www.thelocal.ch/20200520/ber...own-protesters
Matter of interest, how is a group of more than five defined?
I mean if we have five people keeping their correct 2m distance then if another person is 2m away is that the start of a new group or does it increase the group size from five to six?
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  #9766  
Old 20.05.2020, 22:32
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Re: Coronavirus

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Positive outcome is probably higher than 99.5%, I believe 99.5% to be a conservative estimate. Whilst one guy has had his leg amputated, the vast majority haven't!

The odds of children under 15 dying from Coronavirus are 5 million to 1 yet there are countries which still haven't opened schools. Whilst excusable at the beginning of the pandemic, the continued lockdown and hysteria over this virus is completely irrational.
Well, you are entitled to believe whatever you want to.

Today we only know the "official" figures that are around five million COVID-19 infected and around two million recovered which is a positive outcome of around 40%, a long way from 99.5%?
Hopefully, many of the currently infected people will recover while sadly some will add to the death statistics.

Of course, some people claim the "official" infected number is too low and other people claim the number of reported deaths is also too low which adds to the difficulty of making meaningful estimates.

Probably we will never know the reality. At some future time, like for flu, we will be able to better estimate the number of COVID-19 deaths by comparing the total number of deaths with the annual average of deaths.
Likely there will never be a really accurate way of estimating the number who were COVID-19 infected.

You claim "The odds of children under 15 dying from Coronavirus are 5 million to 1" which is clearly nonsense when there are "official" figures of around five million COVID-19 infected and far more than one dead child.

Reopening schools is not only about the children but also about feeding adults to the virus; teachers, parents, other school staff.
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  #9767  
Old 20.05.2020, 22:45
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Re: Coronavirus

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Matter of interest, how is a group of more than five defined?
I mean if we have five people keeping their correct 2m distance then if another person is 2m away is that the start of a new group or does it increase the group size from five to six?
The group of 5 people have to keep 2 meters distance among each other. Therefore the 6th person is one too many.

It's a bit weird, as now restaurants are open again and the four people eating together at a table can't possibly keep the 2 meter distance, so .....

Last week I went to Zurich (my car was a happy chappy when hitting the highway after all this time, purred like a kitten, LOL) and they had signs up: "Keep the distance, also in the car". I laughed, thinking what the heck? (Although let's face it, we would be rather pleased if people kept that fu**ing distance, no matter in what times). Apparently what they mean is within the cars? An other thing not possible to do unless you buy a stretch limo.
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  #9768  
Old 20.05.2020, 22:45
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Re: Coronavirus

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Over the past week, Sweden has now overtaken the UK, Italy and Belgium to have the highest coronavirus per capita death rate in the world, throwing its decision to avoid a strict lockdown into further doubt.
Source

Of course, that is just for one week so hardly a trend.
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  #9769  
Old 20.05.2020, 23:27
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Re: Coronavirus

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Source

Of course, that is just for one week so hardly a trend.
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Sweden had 6.08 deaths per million inhabitants per day on a rolling seven-day average between May 13 and May 20.
Rolling 7 day average of deaths per day per million inhabitants.....data is so massaged that it might no be that useful in the end. Looking at last week is a problem because deaths by covid take some time to arrive to the stats. We have seen this issue in CH, remember the fax machines? A 7 day rolling average will always show a lower rate because the deaths from yesterday may be only 50% of the deaths for that day until all the data is gathered. So, this statistic makes the situation look better than it is in the UK or SE.

Looking at the numbers of Sweden's public health agency may some insight (https://experience.arcgis.com/experi...6f9f87457ed9aa)



The number of Avlidna/dag (deaths/day) looked much worse in the first half of April. The situation has improved in Sweden but the Telegraph article says Sweden has now overtaken the UK, Italy and Belgium to have the highest coronavirus per capita death rate in the world. It seems the situation has improved faster in the UK, IT and BE relatively to Sweden.

Overtaking is curious choice of a word. It implies the death rate is increasing in Sweden while the data shows it is decreasing. Albeit, the decrease is at a slower rate than other countries.

I think total deaths per million inhabitants is a simpler and less biased statistic. Sweden is a bad place compared to other developed countries but still lower than Belgium, Spain, Italy and the UK https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/t...?region=Europe
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  #9770  
Old 20.05.2020, 23:40
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Re: Coronavirus

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That is your interpretation of it, it doesn’t necessarily make it correct.

You’re actually the only person making it a big deal, you say you don’t want to continue this bullshit discussion (your words) yet you just keep on going.
About getting a fine even when using FFP2 / FFP3 which actually are non-medical masks but by the Dutch government now classified as being medical, simply because all masks with a CE certificate have been banned from usage in public transport.

Dutch Parliament member Maarten Hijink:

"„Ik snap dat je die FFP2-maskers voor de zorg wilt bewaren. Maar als iemand dan toch een deugdelijk niet-medisch mondkapje opzet dat gekeurd is, kun je alsnog een boete krijgen. Dat begrijpt niemand.”"

Translated:

"I understand that you want to keep those FFP2 masks for healthcare. But if someone still puts on a proper non-medical mouth mask that has been certified, you can still be fined. Nobody understands that. ”

Well he only needs to read this topic to know how correct he was in peoples inability to understand this

https://www.nrc.nl/nieuws/2020/05/15...-neus-a3999884
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  #9771  
Old 21.05.2020, 02:01
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Re: Coronavirus

Must say I'm getting a bit tired of the 'run of the mill' white facemasks, are there any fashionable trendy
facemasks that offer the same level of protection but let you stand out from the crowd ?

-----------------------------------------------
Even Dick Turpin wore a facemask !!
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  #9772  
Old 21.05.2020, 08:09
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Re: Coronavirus

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The group of 5 people have to keep 2 meters distance among each other. Therefore the 6th person is one too many.
That's not really answering the question. You have a group of 5 people in a park with 2m separation. Then another 5 people turn up. How far must they be from the first group, so as not to constitute a group of 10?

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You claim "The odds of children under 15 dying from Coronavirus are 5 million to 1" which is clearly nonsense when there are "official" figures of around five million COVID-19 infected and far more than one dead child.
Wrong. If the odds of under 15s dying is 5 million to 1 and you have five million deaths, the chances of (for example) a hundred of those deaths being under 15 is not zero. The actual probability is an exercise left to the readers. (I gave up when I saw it required combinatorics., but the chance of one death is 18%, if my maths is right).
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  #9773  
Old 21.05.2020, 08:14
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Re: Coronavirus

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Dutch Parliament member Maarten Hijink:

"„Ik snap dat je die FFP2-maskers voor de zorg wilt bewaren. Maar als iemand dan toch een deugdelijk niet-medisch mondkapje opzet dat gekeurd is, kun je alsnog een boete krijgen. Dat begrijpt niemand.”"

Well there's your problem - it's written in Double-Dutch.
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  #9774  
Old 21.05.2020, 08:38
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Re: Coronavirus

annual epidemics of influenza are estimated to result in about 3 to 5 million cases of severe illness, and about 290 000 to 650 000 respiratory deaths.

Do they stop the whole world because of this?
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  #9775  
Old 21.05.2020, 08:54
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Re: Coronavirus

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It also does not say one can get a fine when having an orgy with 100 adults in a barn, or when sitting in the park with to many people to close to each other, however hundreds of fines for such (the latest) have been handed out.Government has in their rulings stated clearly which are the allowed masks inside public transport, so explain to me how one does not qualify for a fine if one does not follow that ruling?

How about we don't use weird sites in foreign languages to proof actual governmental sites wrong. It's like I would use an article of the local.ch in an attempt to proof a ruling on admin.ch being wrong.

PS: In the same small part they have about the 1st of June they also claim that the fine still has to be decided upon, which is rubbish since it has been set to 95,- yesterday already.

Amazing discussion this, you'll amaze me. And if he is Dutch he should be ashamed by his lack of understanding of all of this.

Yeah, I'm surprised by that myself. I think some people here read English speaking news about their own countries....

We're like....global, man.

About those masks though.....isn't it a classic case of governmental ambiguous rules? I wonder what's the goal of it all. To make people not to wear these types of masks, or to find a way to penalize everyone they can.
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  #9776  
Old 21.05.2020, 08:58
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Re: Coronavirus

v

coronavirus-rc7gnacagt6tbxe535ozkdwjdt6jc3sachvcdoaizecfr3dnitcq_3_0.png
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  #9777  
Old 21.05.2020, 09:03
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Re: Coronavirus

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About those masks though.....isn't it a classic case of governmental ambiguous rules? I wonder what's the goal of it all. To make people not to wear these types of masks, or to find a way to penalize everyone they can.
Actually if you google translate the very first link Edwin posted a page or 2 back it tells you - to protect supplies for medical staff.
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Old 21.05.2020, 09:05
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Re: Coronavirus

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Wrong. If the odds of under 15s dying is 5 million to 1 and you have five million deaths, the chances of (for example) a hundred of those deaths being under 15 is not zero. The actual probability is an exercise left to the readers. (I gave up when I saw it required combinatorics., but the chance of one death is 18%, if my maths is right).
Ummm...Marton refers to 5 million cases, not 5 million deaths.
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  #9779  
Old 21.05.2020, 09:09
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Re: Coronavirus

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Actually if you google translate the very first link Edwin posted a page or 2 back it tells you - to protect supplies for medical staff.
Thanks. I usually avoid google/online translator(s) because it's ridiculously confusing. (maybe they improved the quality of translations lately)

But I kinda of trust EdwinNl on this one more than KandE.....call it instinct.
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  #9780  
Old 21.05.2020, 09:12
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Re: Coronavirus

When I see people in masks I feel sick. I usually go to the other side of the road!
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