Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Living in Switzerland > Daily life  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #9781  
Old 21.05.2020, 09:35
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: CH
Posts: 9,539
Groaned at 326 Times in 266 Posts
Thanked 13,818 Times in 7,134 Posts
greenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
When I see people in masks I feel sick. I usually go to the other side of the road!
Me too! When I see someone coughing on TV, I turn it off quickly because you never know...
Reply With Quote
The following 6 users would like to thank greenmount for this useful post:
  #9782  
Old 21.05.2020, 09:37
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: CH
Posts: 10,918
Groaned at 2,041 Times in 1,124 Posts
Thanked 5,139 Times in 3,246 Posts
omtatsat omtatsat omtatsat omtatsat omtatsat
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
Me too! When I see someone coughing on TV, I turn it off quickly because you never know...

Yes right. And when they throw their gorbie slag filled mask on the street for the childeren to play with makes me feel even more sick!
Reply With Quote
  #9783  
Old 21.05.2020, 09:44
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: CH
Posts: 10,918
Groaned at 2,041 Times in 1,124 Posts
Thanked 5,139 Times in 3,246 Posts
omtatsat omtatsat omtatsat omtatsat omtatsat
Re: Coronavirus

The Corona app: who gives a shitt about this dumb app!

https://www.tagesanzeiger.ch/apple-u...p-477047758924
Reply With Quote
  #9784  
Old 21.05.2020, 10:12
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: CH
Posts: 9,539
Groaned at 326 Times in 266 Posts
Thanked 13,818 Times in 7,134 Posts
greenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
Yes right. And when they throw their gorbie slag filled mask on the street for the childeren to play with makes me feel even more sick!
True. That's not even a joke, omtatsat.

Maybe you should add some joke/irony/sarcasm alerts in your posts, it's never self-evident here.
Reply With Quote
  #9785  
Old 21.05.2020, 10:15
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: CH
Posts: 10,918
Groaned at 2,041 Times in 1,124 Posts
Thanked 5,139 Times in 3,246 Posts
omtatsat omtatsat omtatsat omtatsat omtatsat
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
True. That's not even a joke, omtatsat.

Maybe you should add some joke/irony/sarcasm alerts in your posts, it's never self-evident here.
but it was not a joke/irony/sarcasm
Reply With Quote
  #9786  
Old 21.05.2020, 10:45
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
That's not really answering the question. You have a group of 5 people in a park with 2m separation. Then another 5 people turn up. How far must they be from the first group, so as not to constitute a group of 10?
Quote:
The distance is fine, It is up to the judgement of the police if you due to being related or based on behaviour should count as one group. Two families sitting apart from each other in the park with no communication in between and each their own drinks and BBQ will be fine, if they however share the same cooler for food it might in the opinion of the police become one group.
Wrong. If the odds of under 15s dying is 5 million to 1 and you have five million deaths, the chances of (for example) a hundred of those deaths being under 15 is not zero. The actual probability is an exercise left to the readers. (I gave up when I saw it required combinatorics., but the chance of one death is 18%, if my maths is right).
Since I love math/numbers.

Let's assume overal mortality 0,1% (Stockholm with unknown percentage of infection of the population currently has 0.08% of its population having died attributed to Corona. So the 0.1% might be a bit on the low side.

So 5 million deaths gives 5 Billion infected.

Let's assume even distribution of infection among age groups, and let's take 28% of world population being younger than 15. (I googled for 26% begin younger than 14), This gives 1.3B infected kids.

If chances of dying would be 1 out of 5M that should give 260 deaths.

I'd say with such total amount of deaths, the mortality rate being on the safe side and with such odds of 5M to 1 the changes of a dead kid would be more a certainty than a game of odds.

If we would have 5 million infections instead of 5 million deaths to calculate with:
Gives 1.3M infected kids, would give 0.26 dead kid equaling to changes of 26% for one dead kid.

And that is enough calculating with kids for me for today.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank for this useful post:
  #9787  
Old 21.05.2020, 11:50
Banned
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Zurich
Posts: 816
Groaned at 280 Times in 178 Posts
Thanked 1,819 Times in 889 Posts
TonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
Well, you are entitled to believe whatever you want to.

Today we only know the "official" figures that are around five million COVID-19 infected and around two million recovered which is a positive outcome of around 40%, a long way from 99.5%?
Hopefully, many of the currently infected people will recover while sadly some will add to the death statistics.

Of course, some people claim the "official" infected number is too low and other people claim the number of reported deaths is also too low which adds to the difficulty of making meaningful estimates.

Probably we will never know the reality. At some future time, like for flu, we will be able to better estimate the number of COVID-19 deaths by comparing the total number of deaths with the annual average of deaths.
Likely there will never be a really accurate way of estimating the number who were COVID-19 infected.

You claim "The odds of children under 15 dying from Coronavirus are 5 million to 1" which is clearly nonsense when there are "official" figures of around five million COVID-19 infected and far more than one dead child.

Reopening schools is not only about the children but also about feeding adults to the virus; teachers, parents, other school staff.
I think I'll stick with the views of Professor Sir David Spiegelhalter of Cambridge Universtiy rather than marton off the internet thanks

https://www.channel4.com/news/factch...ks-to-children

Quote:
Professor Sir David Spiegelhalter at the University of Cambridge estimates that the risk to children of catching and then dying from coronavirus is one in 5.3 million.
Reply With Quote
  #9788  
Old 21.05.2020, 13:12
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Risch
Posts: 726
Groaned at 35 Times in 21 Posts
Thanked 786 Times in 401 Posts
KiwiSteve has a reputation beyond reputeKiwiSteve has a reputation beyond reputeKiwiSteve has a reputation beyond reputeKiwiSteve has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
I think I'll stick with the views of Professor Sir David Spiegelhalter of Cambridge Universtiy rather than marton off the internet thanks

https://www.channel4.com/news/factch...ks-to-children
Just read the whole article.
It confirms a very low risk to the children themselves of opening schools
It confirms an unknown risk posed to the general population of opening schools with specialists divided in their opinions. Individual counties will obviously have difficulty measuring the effects of school opening against the background of other measures.
So, caution opening schools; sounds rational Boris.
Reply With Quote
  #9789  
Old 21.05.2020, 14:56
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 9,637
Groaned at 407 Times in 351 Posts
Thanked 17,254 Times in 9,275 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
I think I'll stick with the views of Professor Sir David Spiegelhalter of Cambridge Universtiy rather than marton off the internet thanks

https://www.channel4.com/news/factch...ks-to-children
From your link
Quote:
The decision to open up schools is not just a matter of working out the risk to children. We also have to consider the risks to staff who look after them, and whether – even if they don’t develop symptoms – kids might help transmit the virus between households.
Which is exactly what I posted.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank marton for this useful post:
  #9790  
Old 21.05.2020, 14:56
baboon's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Rheintal
Posts: 4,072
Groaned at 155 Times in 134 Posts
Thanked 7,109 Times in 3,263 Posts
baboon has a reputation beyond reputebaboon has a reputation beyond reputebaboon has a reputation beyond reputebaboon has a reputation beyond reputebaboon has a reputation beyond reputebaboon has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
I think I'll stick with the views of Professor Sir David Spiegelhalter of Cambridge Universtiy rather than marton off the internet thanks

https://www.channel4.com/news/factch...ks-to-children
Given there's a simple mathematical howler in that report I think I won't. Probably down to the way C4 have reported it rather than the Prof himself but still....
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank baboon for this useful post:
  #9791  
Old 21.05.2020, 15:04
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
Given there's a simple mathematical howler in that report I think I won't. Probably down to the way C4 have reported it rather than the Prof himself but still....
My problem with such kind of math is that it does not take in account that it is still a story going on, so the odds are actually the absolute minimum.

It's sort of like saying months ago when the first person died of Corona that the odds of getting infected and actually dying from it are 1 out of 7.594 Billion, well with such odds it's best to completely ignore it... :P
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank for this useful post:
  #9792  
Old 21.05.2020, 15:16
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 9,637
Groaned at 407 Times in 351 Posts
Thanked 17,254 Times in 9,275 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
I think I'll stick with the views of Professor Sir David Spiegelhalter of Cambridge Universtiy rather than marton off the internet thanks

https://www.channel4.com/news/factch...ks-to-children
Seems it was the reporting, he wrote
Quote:
2 deaths have been recorded among over 10 million children under 15 (around 1 in 5 million), an extremely low risk that that represents only 1% of the normal risk faced by this group over this period
Source

Deaths of around 1 in 5 million, not a risk of 1 in 5 million; he does not actually assign a value for this risk.

Edit: Seems the risk of a UK child under 15 dying next year is 1 in 14,000 so what is 1% of that?
So normal risk 10 Million/ 14,000 = ca 700.

Last edited by marton; 21.05.2020 at 15:55.
Reply With Quote
  #9793  
Old 21.05.2020, 19:04
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: CH
Posts: 10,918
Groaned at 2,041 Times in 1,124 Posts
Thanked 5,139 Times in 3,246 Posts
omtatsat omtatsat omtatsat omtatsat omtatsat
Re: Coronavirus

Swimming and getting some sunshine is healthy. So its about time these Zürich politician idiots opened the bathing areas. And not just for sport clubs.!( as it is now )
Reply With Quote
  #9794  
Old 21.05.2020, 19:18
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
Swimming and getting some sunshine is healthy. So its about time these Zürich politician idiots opened the bathing areas. And not just for sport clubs.!( as it is now )
Not so long ago you were complaining about people going to such places...
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank for this useful post:
  #9795  
Old 21.05.2020, 21:17
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: CH
Posts: 10,918
Groaned at 2,041 Times in 1,124 Posts
Thanked 5,139 Times in 3,246 Posts
omtatsat omtatsat omtatsat omtatsat omtatsat
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
Not so long ago you were complaining about people going to such places...
I am talking here about Zürich operated official bathing areas like Bad Tiefenbrunnen,Untere Letten,Frauen Bad etc etc.. If they opened these areas you would not see the overcrowded scenes that played out in Zürich today on the lake. As I said-dumb politicians.

"The Zurich City Police had to temporarily vacate various public parks on Thursday afternoon because the Covid 19 measures could no longer be observed. This affected in particular the community center Wipkingen, Saffa Island and the Landiwiese, as a spokesman for the Zurich city police told the SDA. The evictions had started at 3:30 p.m. with announcements that the site had to be vacated.

A lot of people would have followed the instructions well and gradually left the parks. With a few, the police officers should have talked "a little more intensely", the spokesman. The evictions were due to "unmanageable crowds"."
Reply With Quote
  #9796  
Old 21.05.2020, 21:48
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
I am talking here about Zürich operated official bathing areas like Bad Tiefenbrunnen,Untere Letten,Frauen Bad etc etc.. If they opened these areas you would not see the overcrowded scenes that played out in Zürich today on the lake. As I said-dumb politicians.

"The Zurich City Police had to temporarily vacate various public parks on Thursday afternoon because the Covid 19 measures could no longer be observed. This affected in particular the community center Wipkingen, Saffa Island and the Landiwiese, as a spokesman for the Zurich city police told the SDA. The evictions had started at 3:30 p.m. with announcements that the site had to be vacated.

A lot of people would have followed the instructions well and gradually left the parks. With a few, the police officers should have talked "a little more intensely", the spokesman. The evictions were due to "unmanageable crowds"."
Even with everything open things would still be crowded like hell, since opening the official pools gives the signal that "hey it's all fine, we can go to the beaches and parks" All those places are normally freaking busy with a public holiday and nice weather.

Besides that, official pool area's are more bound to the restrictions than a public area so not so many people could go in there anyway.

And I assume as usual that you were in one of those parks but it is all the other people that make it a busy place..
Reply With Quote
  #9797  
Old 21.05.2020, 22:25
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Ostschweiz
Posts: 8,048
Groaned at 349 Times in 283 Posts
Thanked 10,410 Times in 5,499 Posts
Urs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

This is EF at their worst. Yet again. And probably not the last time, sadly.

People pile up on a poster without bothering to read what they link.
Quote:
View Post
That is your interpretation of it, it doesn’t necessarily make it correct.

You’re actually the only person making it a big deal, you say you don’t want to continue this bullshit discussion (your words) yet you just keep on going.
From Edwin's first link he posted ages ago, translated by deepl.com:
Quote:
What is the difference between a medical mask and a non-medical mask?

Medical oral masks, such as an FFP2 mask or surgical mouth mask IIR, must comply with European guidelines and quality standards for medical devices and personal protective equipment. Medical mouth masks are suitable for use in healthcare.

The non-medical mouth masks can be purchased or made in-house, so that medical mouth masks remain available for care. A non-medical mask is not worn to protect yourself, but when used properly it can reduce the risk of droplets from the mouth and nose spreading into the environment. It is not a substitute for, but an addition to, the applicable hygiene rules.
Quote:
I don't have a mouthpiece, can I use public transport?

No, you are not allowed to travel by public transport. A mouth shield is mandatory from 1 June 2020 for travellers aged 13 years and older. You can wear a non-medical mask. See the example instructions for a non-medical mask. Are you still travelling on public transport without a mouth mask? Then you may be fined € 95.

Will there be no shortages if a mouth mask becomes compulsory on public transport?

No. You can buy a non-medical mouth mask or make one at home. This way the medical mouth masks remain available for care.

Quote:
View Post
And here it says people who don’t wear a face mask can be fined.
Of course it does! Nobody gets fined for each and every trespassing they commit.
Reply With Quote
This user groans at Urs Max for this post:
  #9798  
Old 21.05.2020, 22:51
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
This is EF at their worst. Yet again. And probably not the last time, sadly.
Never admit you're wrong even when confronted with the evidence seems to work fine for some people here, dunno why they do it, I myself can be stubborn as hell, but facts are facts and if I have been wrong I do admit such, others rather go to hell than admitting they are wrong.

I gave them a Dutch governmental site.
I gave them a quote from a Dutch parliament member.
I gave them text from the Dutch public transport companies.

But hey you know what, all three of them must be wrong, since what do those people know about such....

However Yesterday evening parliament had another meeting and things changed again, and now you will no longer be fined if you wear a medical mask and it also no longer is forbidden, but they still advise against wearing them. This after questions from a bunch of opposition parties. And nope if people want a link from this they can suck my sock, since whatever link I post It only brings more shit.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank for this useful post:
  #9799  
Old 21.05.2020, 23:16
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Ostschweiz
Posts: 8,048
Groaned at 349 Times in 283 Posts
Thanked 10,410 Times in 5,499 Posts
Urs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
Never admit you're wrong even when confronted with the evidence seems to work fine for some people here, ...
It didn't take Belgianmum five minutes to groan me, still waiting for her post.

Water under the bridge though, wear your groans with pride
Quote:
However Yesterday evening parliament had another meeting and things changed again, and now you will no longer be fined if you wear a medical mask and it also no longer is forbidden, but they still advise against wearing them. This after questions from a bunch of opposition parties.
LOL

Seems to make sense though, given the reasoning that professional masks should be preserved for the medical professions. It just begs the question why there's still such a shortage, I would have thought that enough should be available now to equip the broad population, too.
Reply With Quote
  #9800  
Old 21.05.2020, 23:19
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 7,894
Groaned at 285 Times in 214 Posts
Thanked 17,662 Times in 6,204 Posts
k_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
This is EF at their worst. Yet again. And probably not the last time, sadly.

People pile up on a poster without bothering to read what they link.

From Edwin's first link he posted ages ago, translated by deepl.com:





Of course it does! Nobody gets fined for each and every trespassing they commit.
You confirm exactly what I posted too: it's stated nowhere that you can get fined if you wear a medical mask - you can only get fined if you don't wear a mask at all.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank k_and_e for this useful post:
The following 2 users groan at k_and_e for this post:
Reply

Tags
cold, corona, coronavirus, covid, covid-19, flu, health, medical, virus




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 7 (3 members and 4 guests)
Principia Discordia
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT +2. The time now is 12:15.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0