Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Living in Switzerland > Daily life  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #10101  
Old 03.06.2020, 11:23
Axa's Avatar
Axa Axa is offline
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Suhr, Aargau
Posts: 1,429
Groaned at 18 Times in 18 Posts
Thanked 1,871 Times in 872 Posts
Axa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
Of course it's tough on the younger workforce who will no doubt miss the social interaction to be found
working from the office - although that said, the number of hours lost, through the biggest unproductive
part of the working week ( travelling or commuting to and from work ) can now be spent down the gym
( which most young people regard as a social club anyway ) getting in more healthy physical exercise
plus there's always the Internet Cafe or Coffee Bar to hold your meetings, nearer home instead.

In fact the Digital Nomads ( brought up on home working ) swear that Internet Cafe's and Coffee bars
are the new social interaction place to hang out and get connected.

Finally there's the green dividend from people working from home, as the car would lose one of it's
everyday functions in getting commuters to or from work or to and from the Commuter train
station.
I drove daily to work until March 17th. For the moment, the 1 or 2 times I drive per week are a pleasure. Losing the utility for commuting makes the car more attractive. I need to fill the gas tank once a month instead of once a week. Less emissions and more fun, what's not to like?

Today, I came to the office to water the plants in my office and some colleagues. Also to have a video call with a client in peace. The coffee machine has been turned off and carefully cleaned by the janitor. Looking at all the shiny parts of the machine lying of the kitchen bar feels like we lost something, defeat?
Reply With Quote
  #10102  
Old 03.06.2020, 11:23
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 9,637
Groaned at 407 Times in 351 Posts
Thanked 17,250 Times in 9,274 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
So their curve is also flattening, yet we were told only lockdowns could do that
As our expert statistician you will know that as Sweden's virus deaths mount up so eventually will the curve flatten.
Reply With Quote
  #10103  
Old 03.06.2020, 11:37
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 7,894
Groaned at 285 Times in 214 Posts
Thanked 17,662 Times in 6,204 Posts
k_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
As our expert statistician you will know that as Sweden's virus deaths mount up so eventually will the curve flatten.

The leading Swedish epidemiologist says Sweden should have done more.
https://www.thelocal.se/20200603/teg...ht-coronavirus
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank k_and_e for this useful post:
  #10104  
Old 03.06.2020, 11:39
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 9,637
Groaned at 407 Times in 351 Posts
Thanked 17,250 Times in 9,274 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
Interesting in that what works for the CEOs may not work for the majority of their workforce. And yet, their say drives the policy.

Tough times ahead I foresee. A wide chasm between the workers and corporate owners.
Somehow tragic that the younger generation needs to go to work to have social interaction. Then there is the view that may be an old fashioned idea but shouldn't they be working not socialising?
Reply With Quote
  #10105  
Old 03.06.2020, 11:43
Banned
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Zurich
Posts: 816
Groaned at 280 Times in 178 Posts
Thanked 1,817 Times in 888 Posts
TonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

This is interesting, the man who is partly (largely?) responsible for locking down the UK has said that Sweden achieved largely the same suppression of the virus without a hard lockdown.

This should actually form a very important part of the eventual inquiry, not necessary to point blame, but so that we LEARN from our mistakes for the future.

Professor Neil Ferguson's paper from Imperial College stated that lockdown in the UK would reduce the number of deaths from 500,000 to around 6,000. As things have transpired the number of deaths is fast approaching 40,000 in spite of a hard lockdown, an appalling loss of life. Professor Ferguson estimated 20,000 deaths would be the limit if the UK locked down. Which raises the question about lockdown, what did it achieve?

Professor Ferguson said in yesterday's select committee hearing that Brits have observed lockdown more faithfully than the models he used envisaged. So the question is what went wrong? Why are there so many deaths?

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/202...cience-uk-has/
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank TonyClifton for this useful post:
  #10106  
Old 03.06.2020, 11:52
Ato Ato is offline
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: ZH
Posts: 1,001
Groaned at 13 Times in 13 Posts
Thanked 1,701 Times in 722 Posts
Ato has a reputation beyond reputeAto has a reputation beyond reputeAto has a reputation beyond reputeAto has a reputation beyond reputeAto has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
Somehow tragic that the younger generation needs to go to work to have social interaction. Then there is the view that may be an old fashioned idea but shouldn't they be working not socialising?
I'm not sure what kind of automaton you are, but generally speaking socialising is part of working. Maybe not while working, but lunch and travel to and from work still happens.
I can't think of many jobs which are solitary and considered normal, even lighthouse keepers are considered odd.
Reply With Quote
  #10107  
Old 03.06.2020, 11:59
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 9,637
Groaned at 407 Times in 351 Posts
Thanked 17,250 Times in 9,274 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
This is interesting, the man who is partly (largely?) responsible for locking down the UK has said that Sweden achieved largely the same suppression of the virus without a hard lockdown.

This should actually form a very important part of the eventual inquiry, not necessary to point blame, but so that we LEARN from our mistakes for the future.

Professor Neil Ferguson's paper from Imperial College stated that lockdown in the UK would reduce the number of deaths from 500,000 to around 6,000. As things have transpired the number of deaths is fast approaching 40,000 in spite of a hard lockdown, an appalling loss of life. Professor Ferguson estimated 20,000 deaths would be the limit if the UK locked down. Which raises the question about lockdown, what did it achieve?

Professor Ferguson said in yesterday's select committee hearing that Brits have observed lockdown more faithfully than the models he used envisaged. So the question is what went wrong? Why are there so many deaths?

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/202...cience-uk-has/
Nothing went wrong, the number of UK deaths will not reach 500,000 which was Ferguson's forecast of a non-lockdown scenario.
So lockdown reduced the forecast number of deaths by over 90%, obviously very successful.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank marton for this useful post:
  #10108  
Old 03.06.2020, 12:27
baboon's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Rheintal
Posts: 4,072
Groaned at 155 Times in 134 Posts
Thanked 7,109 Times in 3,263 Posts
baboon has a reputation beyond reputebaboon has a reputation beyond reputebaboon has a reputation beyond reputebaboon has a reputation beyond reputebaboon has a reputation beyond reputebaboon has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
This is interesting, the man who is partly (largely?) responsible for locking down the UK has said that Sweden achieved largely the same suppression of the virus without a hard lockdown.

This should actually form a very important part of the eventual inquiry, not necessary to point blame, but so that we LEARN from our mistakes for the future.

Professor Neil Ferguson's paper from Imperial College stated that lockdown in the UK would reduce the number of deaths from 500,000 to around 6,000. As things have transpired the number of deaths is fast approaching 40,000 in spite of a hard lockdown, an appalling loss of life. Professor Ferguson estimated 20,000 deaths would be the limit if the UK locked down. Which raises the question about lockdown, what did it achieve?

Professor Ferguson said in yesterday's select committee hearing that Brits have observed lockdown more faithfully than the models he used envisaged. So the question is what went wrong? Why are there so many deaths?

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/202...cience-uk-has/
Perhaps look at the paper itself rather than what was reported. I'll help, it's here with a further link therein to the full paper.

The paper was published on 16 March, presumably the calculations based a day or 2 before that. The UK lockdown took another week - critical at that phase of the epidemic. Also the prediction of number of cases was given as a range depending on the unbraked R0 of the virus, that range went up to 71,000 cases.

Looking back at the paper they were pretty accurate.
Reply With Quote
The following 5 users would like to thank baboon for this useful post:
  #10109  
Old 03.06.2020, 12:54
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 9,637
Groaned at 407 Times in 351 Posts
Thanked 17,250 Times in 9,274 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
I'm not sure what kind of automaton you are, but generally speaking socialising is part of working. Maybe not while working, but lunch and travel to and from work still happens.
I can't think of many jobs which are solitary and considered normal, even lighthouse keepers are considered odd.
"automaton"? More like an old fashioned work ethic.

Socialising during travel to and from work? How long have you been in Switzerland?

Meeting people for lunch is actually possible outside the work environment assuming social distancing is observed.
Reply With Quote
  #10110  
Old 03.06.2020, 13:04
22 yards's Avatar
Only in moderation
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Basel-Land
Posts: 8,840
Groaned at 270 Times in 217 Posts
Thanked 18,183 Times in 7,308 Posts
22 yards has a reputation beyond repute22 yards has a reputation beyond repute22 yards has a reputation beyond repute22 yards has a reputation beyond repute22 yards has a reputation beyond repute22 yards has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
Just for context, Luc Montagnier has also come out as anti-vaxxer and pro-homeopathy.
What a role model.
Reply With Quote
  #10111  
Old 03.06.2020, 13:07
Axa's Avatar
Axa Axa is offline
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Suhr, Aargau
Posts: 1,429
Groaned at 18 Times in 18 Posts
Thanked 1,871 Times in 872 Posts
Axa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
"automaton"? More like an old fashioned work ethic.

Socialising during travel to and from work? How long have you been in Switzerland?

Meeting people for lunch is actually possible outside the work environment assuming social distancing is observed.
All jobs are different. Try teaching without socializing or consulting without bonding with the clients. What about leading a team? It's possible to lead without socializing but surely the team is not generating record profits. Profit beats old-fashioned work ethic, anytime.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Axa for this useful post:
  #10112  
Old 03.06.2020, 13:08
22 yards's Avatar
Only in moderation
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Basel-Land
Posts: 8,840
Groaned at 270 Times in 217 Posts
Thanked 18,183 Times in 7,308 Posts
22 yards has a reputation beyond repute22 yards has a reputation beyond repute22 yards has a reputation beyond repute22 yards has a reputation beyond repute22 yards has a reputation beyond repute22 yards has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
Shall we add JP Morgan to your list of "Trolls"?

https://www.stern.de/wirtschaft/lock...n-9274848.html
That doesn't sound like at a conflict of interest AT ALL. What interest could JP Morgan possibly have in advocating "business as usual" in economic markets?
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank 22 yards for this useful post:
  #10113  
Old 03.06.2020, 14:30
baboon's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Rheintal
Posts: 4,072
Groaned at 155 Times in 134 Posts
Thanked 7,109 Times in 3,263 Posts
baboon has a reputation beyond reputebaboon has a reputation beyond reputebaboon has a reputation beyond reputebaboon has a reputation beyond reputebaboon has a reputation beyond reputebaboon has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

"We should have done more, admits architect of Sweden's Covid-19 strategy"

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...anders-tegnell
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank baboon for this useful post:
  #10114  
Old 03.06.2020, 16:58
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: ZH
Posts: 309
Groaned at 22 Times in 12 Posts
Thanked 275 Times in 143 Posts
LifeStrain has earned the respect of manyLifeStrain has earned the respect of manyLifeStrain has earned the respect of many
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
I
I think going forward, corporations will reduce office space and more "non essential" employees will work from home. This will be tough for the younger workforce in my view.

Moreover, they will make personal office spacea perk which you will have to earn. Career starter with little experience? Work from home and use shared "hot desk" twice a week when you are in office. And of course rent savings will go on the other side, in form of dividends etc, not to compensate the employee extra space needed to rent a bigger home.
Reply With Quote
  #10115  
Old 03.06.2020, 17:32
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: Zürich
Posts: 212
Groaned at 19 Times in 12 Posts
Thanked 210 Times in 113 Posts
vladest has a reputation beyond reputevladest has a reputation beyond reputevladest has a reputation beyond reputevladest has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
"We should have done more, admits architect of Sweden's Covid-19 strategy"

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...anders-tegnell
what they should do more is to impose more strict rules instead of just recommendations
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank vladest for this useful post:
  #10116  
Old 03.06.2020, 19:29
Ardneham's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Bern
Posts: 220
Groaned at 43 Times in 19 Posts
Thanked 27 Times in 24 Posts
Ardneham is considered unworthyArdneham is considered unworthyArdneham is considered unworthyArdneham is considered unworthy
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
what they should do more is to impose more strict rules instead of just recommendations
Some of the headlines today gives room for re-thinking - samples:

1. Will there be enough coronavirus circulating left to test for a vaccine once it
is ready.

2. Italian Doctor said coronavirus no longer exists clinically. (Personal Doctor
of former President)

3. Canadian Health Official said: Absolutely no evidence Covid-19 is airborne.

4. China delayed coronavirus information frustrating WHO.
Reply With Quote
  #10117  
Old 03.06.2020, 19:37
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 9,637
Groaned at 407 Times in 351 Posts
Thanked 17,250 Times in 9,274 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
All jobs are different. Try teaching without socializing or consulting without bonding with the clients. What about leading a team? It's possible to lead without socializing but surely the team is not generating record profits. Profit beats old-fashioned work ethic, anytime.
During the lockdown, remote teaching seemed to work very well despite the moans from some involved teachers who actually had to do some new work instead of just recycling their annual teaching notes from the last x years.

Team leading is about setting and measuring goals, guiding weaker members into better practices, and providing a clear overall direction.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank marton for this useful post:
  #10118  
Old 03.06.2020, 19:41
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Risch
Posts: 726
Groaned at 35 Times in 21 Posts
Thanked 786 Times in 401 Posts
KiwiSteve has a reputation beyond reputeKiwiSteve has a reputation beyond reputeKiwiSteve has a reputation beyond reputeKiwiSteve has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
Some of the headlines today gives room for re-thinking - samples:

1. Will there be enough coronavirus circulating left to test for a vaccine once it
is ready.

2. Italian Doctor said coronavirus no longer exists clinically. (Personal Doctor
of former President)

3. Canadian Health Official said: Absolutely no evidence Covid-19 is airborne.

4. China delayed coronavirus information frustrating WHO.
Reset information input:

3 probably referring to aerosols (small droplets) being a minor form of transmission compared to large airborne droplets.
maybe 4 has some credence, but the whole china/ WHO saga is not transparent
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank KiwiSteve for this useful post:
  #10119  
Old 03.06.2020, 22:23
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Zurich
Posts: 639
Groaned at 50 Times in 33 Posts
Thanked 1,369 Times in 552 Posts
terrifisch has a reputation beyond reputeterrifisch has a reputation beyond reputeterrifisch has a reputation beyond reputeterrifisch has a reputation beyond reputeterrifisch has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
The leading Swedish epidemiologist says Sweden should have done more.
https://www.thelocal.se/20200603/teg...ht-coronavirus
But this epidemiologist never elaborated on what Sweden should have done better - according to the article.

According to what I have read, most deaths occurred in nursing home facilities. They needed to shut them down and they failed to do so (as did many cities in the US!).

From what I have read, 80% of these deaths in Sweden were those over 75 with an existing comorbidity. Not sure whether the general lockdown is a factor (that is debatable) but rather the nursing homes should have been locked down earlier.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank terrifisch for this useful post:
  #10120  
Old 03.06.2020, 23:38
Banned
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Zurich
Posts: 816
Groaned at 280 Times in 178 Posts
Thanked 1,817 Times in 888 Posts
TonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
But this epidemiologist never elaborated on what Sweden should have done better - according to the article.

According to what I have read, most deaths occurred in nursing home facilities. They needed to shut them down and they failed to do so (as did many cities in the US!).

From what I have read, 80% of these deaths in Sweden were those over 75 with an existing comorbidity. Not sure whether the general lockdown is a factor (that is debatable) but rather the nursing homes should have been locked down earlier.
Yes, the mistake they made like so many others, is that Sweden allowed the virus to enter care homes and hospitals. Note Mr Tegnell at no point said Sweden should have gone into full lockdown.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank TonyClifton for this useful post:
Reply

Tags
cold, corona, coronavirus, covid, covid-19, flu, health, medical, virus




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 2 (0 members and 2 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT +2. The time now is 06:02.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0