Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Living in Switzerland > Daily life  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #10341  
Old 15.06.2020, 23:31
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Kt. ZŁrich
Posts: 9,611
Groaned at 404 Times in 348 Posts
Thanked 17,172 Times in 9,245 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
This is the argument being put out there by the media as they double down to try and justify their fear mongering. Early studies suggest that the UK didn't lockdown too late and that the rate of infection was already on the decline before lockdown (https://arxiv.org/pdf/2005.02090.pdf).

Same goes for lifting it too early. There are very few new cases in the UK now other than in care homes and hospitals. The argument for continuing the lockdown is flimsy at best. If there is no spike following the last two weekends of protests then I think we can finally put the lockdown argument to bed.

I believe all your questions have already been answered in what I wrote originally
The UK daily new cases trend is rising, so not as rosy as you claim.
Name:  UkDaily15June.jpg
Views: 284
Size:  100.7 KB
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank marton for this useful post:
  #10342  
Old 16.06.2020, 03:13
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Ostschweiz
Posts: 8,032
Groaned at 348 Times in 282 Posts
Thanked 10,388 Times in 5,490 Posts
Urs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
Complaints are (but not limited to) exhaustion/exhaustion attacks/fatigue/muscle ache/Burning or painful chest/problems with swallowing/headaches/muscle ache/couching/High heart rate. And almost always it is a combination of several of these things. And a lot of stories of doctors not having a clue yet where to look and no cure, more and more go into therapies for breathing, walking and such.

This is a real problem which up to now has little attention, and no research as to how and why has finished yet.

[..]

We both were healthy people in the beginning of the year who could walk 25KM without a problem, now we have pre-fixed meals in the cooler for if we are to tired to cook.
Reports along those lines abound around here as well.

And while I'm at it ....
Quote:
View Post
Of course they have, quite apt for this to have come out of Germany. Chancellor Merkel referred to the Coronavirus as "the greatest threat Germany faced since World War 2". To date Germany has had about 9000 Covid related deaths. An average flu season in Germany will see 20-25,000 deaths.
Yet another blatant lie.

With 25.1k deaths, 2017/18 was the deadliest flu season in Germany of the last 30 years. According to the RKI the number of flu deaths can be as low as a few hundred.

gaburko, what TC posts isn't an opinion, it's a stream of lies.

It is simply beyond comprehension why TC's permanent stream of disinformation and lies hasn't been stopped ages ago.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank Urs Max for this useful post:
This user groans at Urs Max for this post:
  #10343  
Old 16.06.2020, 03:23
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Ostschweiz
Posts: 8,032
Groaned at 348 Times in 282 Posts
Thanked 10,388 Times in 5,490 Posts
Urs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
I've been surprised by the extreme views of the reaction to the virus. Sorry if I misrepresent you, but a team that claims there was NO reason to justify the lockdown (economic harm!!!) and the other team that claims lives are more important that money at the first mention of money.
I don't think the last part is a fair representation. The majority seems to be in this group, but I guess it's clear that zero deaths is neither an option for now nor a possibility without a vaccine. And whether we get one is yet to be seen, let alone when, and even more so what that may mean in terms of what's feasable.

It's impossible to have a fair discussion without an agreed upon factual basis. A continuous stream of lies and selective picking of data points will never do.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Urs Max for this useful post:
  #10344  
Old 16.06.2020, 07:18
FCBarca's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: La CŰte
Posts: 1,204
Groaned at 99 Times in 50 Posts
Thanked 1,247 Times in 582 Posts
FCBarca has a reputation beyond reputeFCBarca has a reputation beyond reputeFCBarca has a reputation beyond reputeFCBarca has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Vaud is anticipating a probable surge in cases according to Emergency staff - last few days have experienced increase in COVID profile patients & reinstatement of previous internal protocols for protection
Reply With Quote
  #10345  
Old 16.06.2020, 08:35
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: CH
Posts: 9,519
Groaned at 324 Times in 265 Posts
Thanked 13,788 Times in 7,116 Posts
greenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
I always play devilís advocate
Or so you say. But if you don't really believe in what you write here, what's the point?
Reply With Quote
  #10346  
Old 16.06.2020, 08:44
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: CH
Posts: 10,918
Groaned at 2,041 Times in 1,124 Posts
Thanked 5,139 Times in 3,246 Posts
omtatsat omtatsat omtatsat omtatsat omtatsat
Re: Coronavirus

Relax.Name:  68qFljhg4ppAtbkmoLZNBs.jpg
Views: 217
Size:  25.3 KB
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank omtatsat for this useful post:
  #10347  
Old 16.06.2020, 10:50
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
Or so you say. But if you don't really believe in what you write here, what's the point?
I suspect this user always writes what he believes until proven wrong, then he was just playing Devil's Advocate.
Reply With Quote
  #10348  
Old 16.06.2020, 11:04
TonyClifton's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Zurich
Posts: 799
Groaned at 263 Times in 171 Posts
Thanked 1,767 Times in 870 Posts
TonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
Reports along those lines abound around here as well.

And while I'm at it ....

Yet another blatant lie.

With 25.1k deaths, 2017/18 was the deadliest flu season in Germany of the last 30 years. According to the RKI the number of flu deaths can be as low as a few hundred.

gaburko, what TC posts isn't an opinion, it's a stream of lies.

It is simply beyond comprehension why TC's permanent stream of disinformation and lies hasn't been stopped ages ago.
Is it not embarrassing for you when you post links to articles that don't back up what you're saying?

From page 48 of the paper (Chapter 5.3, Table 3), Excess deaths in Germany due to flu by year:

2008-2009 - 18,800
2012-2013 - 20,700
2014-2015 - 21,300
2016-2017 - 22,900
2017-2018 - 25,100

Admittedly my wording was incorrect, average number of deaths is not per year, rather during a bad flu season. Nevertheless, the point I was making DOESN'T CHANGE, it's absurd now that Mrs Merkel said that [sic] "Coronavirus is the greatest threat facing Germany since World War 2", when regularly there are many more flu deaths than the circa 9000 Coronavirus deaths to date.

See, I'm able to admit when I make an error, you (and a few others on here) should try it sometime or do I need to put your name together with baboon and marton who are seemingly desperate for a second wave of coronavirus to emerge just so they can be proven right?

https://edoc.rki.de/bitstream/handle...=1&isAllowed=y
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank TonyClifton for this useful post:
  #10349  
Old 16.06.2020, 11:08
gaburko's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: BL
Posts: 905
Groaned at 143 Times in 98 Posts
Thanked 2,229 Times in 849 Posts
gaburko has a reputation beyond reputegaburko has a reputation beyond reputegaburko has a reputation beyond reputegaburko has a reputation beyond reputegaburko has a reputation beyond reputegaburko has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
It's impossible to have a fair discussion without an agreed upon factual basis. A continuous stream of lies and selective picking of data points will never do.
The facts that each camp picks are selected by the subjective perception of the magnitude of the problem and hence, they merely re-enforce already embedded perceptions. For every Italy, there's a Switzerland so it's simply a matter of picking the one example that supports ones views Just like your behavior: you groan whenever you disagree, without trying to understand others views
Reply With Quote
  #10350  
Old 16.06.2020, 11:12
TonyClifton's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Zurich
Posts: 799
Groaned at 263 Times in 171 Posts
Thanked 1,767 Times in 870 Posts
TonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

A very strong case has been made in the Guardian against the lockdown. Differs from my view slightly, but correct nonetheless, it takes the line that even if the lockdown is an effective tool, it's not worth the cost.

Quote:
Evidence of the harmful side-effects of the lockdown have also emerged. The number of suicides is up. Domestic violence has increased. Mental health is suffering. Unemployment figures out this week will illustrate the human cost of a 20.4% drop in national output in just one month. The jobless total is heading for 3 million this summer despite the fact that the government is currently paying a third of the workforce.

As the Institute for Fiscal Studies pointed out last week, the crisis has deepened Britainís class, ethnic, gender and generational divides. Young people are the least likely demographic group to be infected with Covid-19 but they are being particularly hard hit by the lockdown. The cost of school closures for all children, but especially those from poorer households, will be high. The 18-24 age group are most likely to end up unemployed because many of them work in hospitality, retailing and leisure.
https://www.theguardian.com/business...n-are-too-high
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank TonyClifton for this useful post:
  #10351  
Old 16.06.2020, 11:27
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
My verdict after seeing years of his posts is that fatmanfilms opinion can almost invariably be discounted on anything except practical topics about making money or doing DIY etc. Otherwise, in other topics he seemingly has negligible levels of human compassion, empathy or ethics and little desire to engage intellectually.
He sounds like Donald Trump, but with decent financial sense and DIY skills.
Reply With Quote
  #10352  
Old 16.06.2020, 11:33
Axa's Avatar
Axa Axa is offline
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Suhr, Aargau
Posts: 1,387
Groaned at 16 Times in 16 Posts
Thanked 1,801 Times in 846 Posts
Axa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
A very strong case has been made in the Guardian against the lockdown. Differs from my view slightly, but correct nonetheless, it takes the line that even if the lockdown is an effective tool, it's not worth the cost.

https://www.theguardian.com/business...n-are-too-high

As self-appointed editor I'll put the comment above as "A very strong case has been made in the Guardian against the lockdown in the UK". Once you pin the opinion piece to an specific geographical and political entity, it's reasonable even if I don't agree.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Axa for this useful post:
  #10353  
Old 16.06.2020, 11:38
Axa's Avatar
Axa Axa is offline
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Suhr, Aargau
Posts: 1,387
Groaned at 16 Times in 16 Posts
Thanked 1,801 Times in 846 Posts
Axa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Passengers arriving by plane from Sweden to CH subject to temperature checks since yesterday https://www.thelocal.ch/20200615/swi...rs-from-sweden

If temperature checks make sense, would it be optimal to do them before boarding the plane? What is precisely achieved if someone is detected after traveling 2 hours along the other passengers?
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Axa for this useful post:
  #10354  
Old 16.06.2020, 11:42
gaburko's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: BL
Posts: 905
Groaned at 143 Times in 98 Posts
Thanked 2,229 Times in 849 Posts
gaburko has a reputation beyond reputegaburko has a reputation beyond reputegaburko has a reputation beyond reputegaburko has a reputation beyond reputegaburko has a reputation beyond reputegaburko has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
What is precisely achieved if someone is detected after traveling 2 hours along the other passengers?
What is achieved is in case of infection there's a track and trace so people could be isolated.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank gaburko for this useful post:
  #10355  
Old 16.06.2020, 11:56
22 yards's Avatar
Only in moderation
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Basel-Land
Posts: 8,824
Groaned at 270 Times in 217 Posts
Thanked 18,137 Times in 7,295 Posts
22 yards has a reputation beyond repute22 yards has a reputation beyond repute22 yards has a reputation beyond repute22 yards has a reputation beyond repute22 yards has a reputation beyond repute22 yards has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
What is achieved is in case of infection there's a track and trace so people could be isolated.
In this case, all the other people on the plane would have to be isolated. And it doesn't take rocket science to track and trace the carrier of the disease and all the people s/he came into contact with in the last two hours when they've just stepped off a flight from Stockholm.

As Axa pointed out, surely it would be far more practical to detect the infection before the carrier steps on board and potentially infects others on the aeroplane.
Reply With Quote
  #10356  
Old 16.06.2020, 11:57
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Risch
Posts: 726
Groaned at 35 Times in 21 Posts
Thanked 786 Times in 401 Posts
KiwiSteve has a reputation beyond reputeKiwiSteve has a reputation beyond reputeKiwiSteve has a reputation beyond reputeKiwiSteve has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
A very strong case has been made in the Guardian against the lockdown. Differs from my view slightly, but correct nonetheless, it takes the line that even if the lockdown is an effective tool, it's not worth the cost.



https://www.theguardian.com/business...n-are-too-high
The lockdown is going to get blamed for an awful lot of things in order to distract from the disastrous policies that have been pursued over recent years; financial deregulation, Austerity, Brexit to name but a few.
"Not worth the cost": speak for yourself, I doubt the "silent majority" is with you.
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank KiwiSteve for this useful post:
  #10357  
Old 16.06.2020, 12:00
gaburko's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: BL
Posts: 905
Groaned at 143 Times in 98 Posts
Thanked 2,229 Times in 849 Posts
gaburko has a reputation beyond reputegaburko has a reputation beyond reputegaburko has a reputation beyond reputegaburko has a reputation beyond reputegaburko has a reputation beyond reputegaburko has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
As Axa pointed out, surely it would be far more practical to detect the infection before the carrier steps on board and potentially infects others on the aeroplane.
Surely it's much better to not have COVID at all and surely it's much better for all of us to be millionaires. But given the fact that we don't live in a perfect world, and Switzerland can't impose rules on other countries and airport authorities, this is the best they can do. Again, not bad, Swiss authorities responses so far are proving to be spot on despite the hysterical screaming by some here
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank gaburko for this useful post:
  #10358  
Old 16.06.2020, 12:08
Axa's Avatar
Axa Axa is offline
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Suhr, Aargau
Posts: 1,387
Groaned at 16 Times in 16 Posts
Thanked 1,801 Times in 846 Posts
Axa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
In this case, all the other people on the plane would have to be isolated. And it doesn't take rocket science to track and trace the carrier of the disease and all the people s/he came into contact with in the last two hours when they've just stepped off a flight from Stockholm.

As Axa pointed out, surely it would be far more practical to detect the infection before the carrier steps on board and potentially infects others on the aeroplane.
I know a temperature check before boarding is not politically feasible because it would make the policies applied in Sweden look very bad. If temperature is checked before boarding, Swedish citizens would immediately ask why to local authorities. Much easier to blame it on the quirkiness of the destination country.

Since CH cannot control what happens in Sweden, all left to do is to check temperatures at arrival. My only point is that medical concerns are secondary to political concerns. Maybe Tony Cliffton is right, those politicians in Sweden cannot admit a mistake
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Axa for this useful post:
  #10359  
Old 16.06.2020, 12:14
22 yards's Avatar
Only in moderation
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Basel-Land
Posts: 8,824
Groaned at 270 Times in 217 Posts
Thanked 18,137 Times in 7,295 Posts
22 yards has a reputation beyond repute22 yards has a reputation beyond repute22 yards has a reputation beyond repute22 yards has a reputation beyond repute22 yards has a reputation beyond repute22 yards has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
Surely it's much better to not have COVID at all and surely it's much better for all of us to be millionaires. But given the fact that we don't live in a perfect world, and Switzerland can't impose rules on other countries and airport authorities, this is the best they can do. Again, not bad, Swiss authorities responses so far are proving to be spot on despite the hysterical screaming by some here
Quote:
View Post
I know a temperature check before boarding is not politically feasible because it would make the policies applied in Sweden look very bad. If temperature is checked before boarding, Swedish citizens would immediately ask why to local authorities. Much easier to blame it on the quirkiness of the destination country.

Since CH cannot control what happens in Sweden, all left to do is to check temperatures at arrival. My only point is that medical concerns are secondary to political concerns. Maybe Tony Cliffton is right, those politicians in Sweden cannot admit a mistake
As far as I know, there is no barrier whatsoever to temperature checks being taken in the country of embarkation. Border guards from Australia check the passports of passengers embarking for Sydney in Singapore; why not have somebody -- a Swiss government employee, an airline representative, an airport employee -- check temperatures in Stockholm?
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank 22 yards for this useful post:
  #10360  
Old 16.06.2020, 12:16
Axa's Avatar
Axa Axa is offline
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Suhr, Aargau
Posts: 1,387
Groaned at 16 Times in 16 Posts
Thanked 1,801 Times in 846 Posts
Axa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
Surely it's much better to not have COVID at all and surely it's much better for all of us to be millionaires. But given the fact that we don't live in a perfect world, and Switzerland can't impose rules on other countries and airport authorities, this is the best they can do. Again, not bad, Swiss authorities responses so far are proving to be spot on despite the hysterical screaming by some here
On a second thought, high body temperature is a poor proxy of covid19. Denying boarding to someone for high body temp probably conflicts with some freedom protection law. Maybe, the temp check at arrival is all that can be done under the current legal framework.

PS. such a low bar for hysterical screaming, WE'RE NOT EVEN WRITING IN LARGE CAPS AROUND HERE
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank Axa for this useful post:
Reply

Tags
cold, corona, coronavirus, covid, covid-19, flu, health, medical, virus




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 9 (2 members and 7 guests)
Rob, ennui
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT +2. The time now is 22:57.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0