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Old 16.06.2020, 11:23
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Re: Coronavirus

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A very strong case has been made in the Guardian against the lockdown. Differs from my view slightly, but correct nonetheless, it takes the line that even if the lockdown is an effective tool, it's not worth the cost.



https://www.theguardian.com/business...n-are-too-high
https://www.theguardian.com/profile/larryelliott

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Larry Elliott is the Guardian's economics editor
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  #10362  
Old 16.06.2020, 11:34
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Re: Coronavirus

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Passengers arriving by plane from Sweden to CH subject to temperature checks since yesterday https://www.thelocal.ch/20200615/swi...rs-from-sweden

If temperature checks make sense, would it be optimal to do them before boarding the plane? What is precisely achieved if someone is detected after traveling 2 hours along the other passengers?
So Finland, Norway, and Denmark are closing their borders to Sweden while our solution is direct flights with temperature checks?
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  #10363  
Old 16.06.2020, 11:39
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Re: Coronavirus

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A very strong case has been made in the Guardian against the lockdown. Differs from my view slightly, but correct nonetheless, it takes the line that even if the lockdown is an effective tool, it's not worth the cost.

https://www.theguardian.com/business...n-are-too-high
Actually he does not make a case against the lockdown; instead he makes a case for local lockdowns rather than the whole country so proving the value of lockdowns.
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a targeted, localised approach rather than a blanket ban on activity.
Of course, it might happen that without banning all travel these local lockdowns would grow and merge into a national one.

Last edited by marton; 16.06.2020 at 18:09.
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Old 16.06.2020, 11:42
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Re: Coronavirus

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As far as I know, there is no barrier whatsoever to temperature checks being taken in the country of embarkation. Border guards from Australia check the passports of passengers embarking for Sydney in Singapore; why not have somebody -- a Swiss government employee, an airline representative, an airport employee -- check temperatures in Stockholm?
Installing a Swiss government employee on a Swedish airport doing medical checks requires a bit more than an esteemed EF member to propose it and the Swiss government to take the genius, never thought of advice! It would require that Sweden actually admits it has a problem. Good luck, but please, don't let me stop you from making a petition in Bern
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Old 16.06.2020, 11:54
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Re: Coronavirus

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So Finland, Norway, and Denmark are closing their borders to Sweden while our solution is direct flights with temperature checks?
Land borders have much higher traffic than 2 or 3 daily flights with 100 people. The contagion risk is higher.
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  #10366  
Old 16.06.2020, 13:01
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Re: Coronavirus

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Installing a Swiss government employee on a Swedish airport doing medical checks requires a bit more than an esteemed EF member to propose it and the Swiss government to take the genius, never thought of advice! It would require that Sweden actually admits it has a problem. Good luck, but please, don't let me stop you from making a petition in Bern
Sweden, Swiss, Switzerland, it's all the same. I don't see any problems installing a Swazi to do temperature checks.
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  #10367  
Old 16.06.2020, 13:06
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Re: Coronavirus

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On a second thought, high body temperature is a poor proxy of covid19. Denying boarding to someone for high body temp probably conflicts with some freedom protection law. Maybe, the temp check at arrival is all that can be done under the current legal framework.
Agreed, a fever could be indicative of any of a large number of medical conditions.

A much better approach, imo, would be to require travellers from Sweden to Switzerland to produce a negative COVID-19 test dated in the last 72 hours upon embarkation, and undergo a temperature check on arrival. That wouldn't require any coordination between the Swiss and Swedish governments -- just between Switzerland and the airlines/airports, who control boarding of aircraft.

Last edited by Guest; 16.06.2020 at 13:20.
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Old 16.06.2020, 14:45
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Re: Coronavirus

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My verdict after seeing years of his posts is that fatmanfilms opinion can almost invariably be discounted on anything except practical topics about making money or doing DIY etc. Otherwise, in other topics he seemingly has negligible levels of human compassion, empathy or ethics and little desire to engage intellectually.
Are you trying to teach him some?

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https://www.theguardian.com/profile/larryelliott

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Larry Elliott is the Guardian's economics editor
Emphasis added.
Expert on economy. Excellent. What's wrong with that?

What do you think healthcare runs on?

Why is CH no. 1 in the Forbes list of the least impact of Covid19 on people?
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  #10369  
Old 16.06.2020, 14:48
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Re: Coronavirus

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Agreed, a fever could be indicative of any of a large number of medical conditions.

A much better approach, imo, would be to require travellers from Sweden to Switzerland to produce a negative COVID-19 test dated in the last 72 hours upon embarkation, and undergo a temperature check on arrival. That wouldn't require any coordination between the Swiss and Swedish governments -- just between Switzerland and the airlines/airports, who control boarding of aircraft.
I agree a fever alone is meaningless. If people are feeling a bit poorly and know there will be temperature checks, popping a paracetamol about 30 mins before could mean no fever detected.

I dislike the idea of requiring negative tests to travel for two reasons:
1 - Practicality/cost. I'm pretty sure I can't get a test right now in CH because I don't have symptoms. The government would think it's a waste. Imagine all the business travelers. Would they need a test every time they travel? Would they be exempt, and if so, why?
2 - We've seen that people can test negative multiple times but still be carriers and eventually test positive. I think negative tests give a false sense of security.
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Old 16.06.2020, 15:08
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Re: Coronavirus

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I'm pretty sure I can't get a test right now in CH because I don't have symptoms.
Yes, you can. I did it two weeks ago without ever having symptoms just because i was curious.
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  #10371  
Old 16.06.2020, 15:23
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Re: Coronavirus

Finally some piece of promising news ...

A cheap and widely available drug can help save the lives of patients seriously ill with coronavirus.

Coronavirus: Dexamethasone proves first life-saving drug https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-53061281
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  #10372  
Old 16.06.2020, 15:48
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Re: Coronavirus

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The facts that each camp picks are selected by the subjective perception of the magnitude of the problem and hence, they merely re-enforce already embedded perceptions. For every Italy, there's a Switzerland so it's simply a matter of picking the one example that supports ones views Just like your behavior: you groan whenever you disagree, without trying to understand others views
Well, if disagreement with TC's claim that an R0 falling from 2.5-3 down to 1.5 is the same as R0 below zero is picking facts then hell yeah, that's all I do.

If your final sentence held any truth I'd have groaned you as well.
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  #10373  
Old 16.06.2020, 16:07
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Re: Coronavirus

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Yes, you can. I did it two weeks ago without ever having symptoms just because i was curious.
The Covid-19 test or the antibody test?
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Old 16.06.2020, 16:21
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Re: Coronavirus

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The Covid-19 test or the antibody test?
I did both and it was CHF 42 per test.
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Old 16.06.2020, 16:26
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Re: Coronavirus

And your point? Does that somehow reduce diminish the points of the argument?!

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The lockdown is going to get blamed for an awful lot of things in order to distract from the disastrous policies that have been pursued over recent years; financial deregulation, Austerity, Brexit to name but a few.
"Not worth the cost": speak for yourself, I doubt the "silent majority" is with you.
Never mind the silent majority, I know the majority of people don't agree with me! Being sat on your sofa on 80% of your salary is something many people are quite happy doing! I'm sure the silent majority will become the vocal majority once the gravity of the situation sets in. Austerity, Brexit and financial deregulation (however that's supposed to have affected the economy negatively ) are but a drop in the ocean compared to the financial harm the lockdown has and will cause.
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Old 16.06.2020, 17:41
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Re: Coronavirus

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I agree a fever alone is meaningless. If people are feeling a bit poorly and know there will be temperature checks, popping a paracetamol about 30 mins before could mean no fever detected.

I dislike the idea of requiring negative tests to travel for two reasons:
1 - Practicality/cost. I'm pretty sure I can't get a test right now in CH because I don't have symptoms. The government would think it's a waste. Imagine all the business travelers. Would they need a test every time they travel? Would they be exempt, and if so, why?
2 - We've seen that people can test negative multiple times but still be carriers and eventually test positive. I think negative tests give a false sense of security.
  1. I guess gaburko answered the question about availability in CH, although obviously it's the availability elsewhere that's relevant for flights to CH. The cost is not excessive. Business travellers should have worked out by now that they don't really need to travel as much as they thought they did (or like to do), so the occasional CHF 42 won't hurt, and for holidaymakers, it's a small one-off cost that's less than for many visas.
    Also, it seems odd to quibble over a few francs for a medical test when trillions of dollars globally have been spent or lost trying to contain the virus.
  2. The occasional false negative test is better than no test at all.

Did you see the news about two new COVID-19 cases in NZ, which has been COVID-19-free for some weeks now? Both were British people who travelled with a special exemption to attend a funeral. They brought the virus with them. I bet every New Zealander would support testing prior to travel.

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Yes, you can. I did it two weeks ago without ever having symptoms just because i was curious.
Care to share the results? All good, I hope!
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Old 16.06.2020, 17:58
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Re: Coronavirus

Social distancing is strictly observed in Germany. (Courtesy of some guy on LinkedIn.)

See attached image.
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File Type: jpg CoronaDE.jpg (173.6 KB, 68 views)
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Old 16.06.2020, 18:09
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Re: Coronavirus

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Being sat on your sofa on 80% of your salary is something many people are quite happy doing!
Fake news mate. You do have a problem with facts.
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  #10379  
Old 16.06.2020, 18:41
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Re: Coronavirus

Congratulations to Oxford Scientists. Not the ultimate solution obviously, but the first one to save lives of the severely ill: https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-53059487
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Old 16.06.2020, 20:08
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Re: Coronavirus

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Care to share the results? All good, I hope!
Negative on both active infection and anti-bodies. I never had symptoms so it was rather curiosity whether I could have been asymptomatic and have the antibodies
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