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  #10481  
Old 23.06.2020, 21:51
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Re: Coronavirus

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I did. More alarmism. Did you read the fine-print?

"Except COVID, causes of death shown account for ~7% of global deaths annually"

In other words, we show full COVID impact, but the other drivers only up to 7%. Add another 93% and then COVID will be dwarfed to a point to be invisible. Unless you're reading this thread where its panic 24/7

Daily, about 150k people die from various reasons. DAILY. This is the reason why they can't show you a truly impactful graph of COVID vs. all deaths because it's negligible.
Sorry, what??!! Are you wilfully twisting words are did you unintentionally misinterpret the fine print?

You suggested that only 7% of deaths due to each of the non-COVID-19 drivers had been recorded in the graph, yet the "full impact" of COVID-19 is shown. What a ridiculous claim. The graph shows the total number of deaths for each driver, globally, in the first 5.5 or so months of 2020. All of them. Not 7% of them. The fine print states that the sum total of all the deaths due to all the causes shown, excluding the brand new cause, COVID-19, is 7% of ALL deaths over the same period.

The graph shows that way more people died in 2020 up to late May from COVID-19 than from any of the other "negligible", "dwarfed" causes of death listed there, such as malaria, malnutrition, or (gasp) influenza. (But I thought you all said that COVID-19 is just a subset of influenza?) In fact, COVID-19 has killed more people than malaria and influenza combined.

Doing a very rough addition in my head of the number of deaths shown in the graph around 20.05.2020, it looks like the COVID-19 deaths are around 20% of all the others put together. That would make COVID-19 responsible for nearly 1.5% of all deaths this year in the world. Do you still think that's insignificant?

You stated that 150,000 people die every day (including COVID-19, or not?). 1.5% of that number is 2,250. Still insignificant? That number is actually understated, as Worldometer has COVID-19 deaths running at nearly 5,000 per day— more like 3% of the deaths per day that you quoted. Has this become significant for you yet?

Last edited by Guest; 23.06.2020 at 22:36.
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  #10482  
Old 23.06.2020, 22:31
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Re: Coronavirus

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What a ridiculous claim.
And yet, this is what the fine print on your link says. I do agree with you it's ridiculous though. Full quote
"*Except COVID, causes of death shown account for ~7% of global deaths annually"

Let me explain to you, again, why COVID is being dwarfed and why does the creator of this site seek alarmism.
Daily, which means, EVERY DAY, roughly 150k people die WORLDWIDE, which means, over the whole world from various reasons. Yesterday, 22nd of June from COVID only there were 3800 deaths. Now divide 3800 over 150 000, please don't forget the 0s and come back to report to us
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  #10483  
Old 23.06.2020, 22:35
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Re: Coronavirus

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Doing a very rough addition in my head of the number of deaths shown in the graph around 20.05.2020, it looks like the COVID-19 deaths are around 20% of all the others put together. That would make COVID-19 responsible for nearly 1.5% of all deaths this year in the world. Do you still think that's insignificant?
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Daily, which means, EVERY DAY, roughly 150k people die WORLDWIDE, which means, over the whole world from various reasons. Yesterday, 22nd of June from COVID only there were 3800 deaths. Now divide 3800 over 150 000, please don't forget the 0s and come back to report to us

that's 2.533% (sorry, no 0s in the numer)
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  #10484  
Old 23.06.2020, 22:40
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Re: Coronavirus

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Now I understand why you were defending the Mohrenkopf so strongly!
You are of course free to be offended by whatever you like. Anything to reinforce your nonsensical claim.
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  #10485  
Old 23.06.2020, 22:50
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Re: Coronavirus

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Has this become significant for you yet?
It's certainly part of what I take into consideration. However, does a 2.5% thing need to be 90% of the news? No, I don't think so, but then again, this is what democracy is all about right? Each of us having an opinion, irrelevant how wrong yours might be

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You are of course free to be offended by whatever you like.
Why would I be offended? I'm neither the object of your racism, nor am I a fan of the relatively unsophisticated Mohrenkopf.
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  #10486  
Old 23.06.2020, 22:50
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Re: Coronavirus

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And yet, this is what the fine print on your link says. I do agree with you it's ridiculous though. Full quote
"*Except COVID, causes of death shown account for ~7% of global deaths annually"

Let me explain to you, again, why COVID is being dwarfed and why does the creator of this site seek alarmism.
Daily, which means, EVERY DAY, roughly 150k people die WORLDWIDE, which means, over the whole world from various reasons. Yesterday, 22nd of June from COVID only there were 3800 deaths. Now divide 3800 over 150 000, please don't forget the 0s and come back to report to us
This is the easiest argument ever to win.

As k_and_e so skilfully calculates, and indeed as I took pains to explain in my previous post, yesterday's COVID-19 deaths accounted for:
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that's 2.533% (sorry, no 0s in the numer)
... of all deaths worldwide. That's an absolute shitload. Once again, more than the 1.5% that I roughly calculated. More than all deaths due to malaria. More than all deaths due to malnutrition. And a lot more than all deaths due to influenza.

QED.
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  #10487  
Old 23.06.2020, 22:52
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Re: Coronavirus

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This is the easiest argument ever to win.
.
And yet you keep losing
2.5%, that's it.
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  #10488  
Old 23.06.2020, 22:57
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Re: Coronavirus

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And yet you keep losing
2.5%, that's it.
The only loss he has is that he keeps trying to persuade somebody who is trolling.

Can't win such :P
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  #10489  
Old 23.06.2020, 22:59
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Re: Coronavirus

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It's certainly part of what I take into consideration. However, does a 2.5% thing need to be 90% of the news? No, I don't think so, but then again, this is what democracy is all about right? Each of us having an opinion, irrelevant how wrong yours might be :
So something that increases the daily death toll by over 2% is not newsworthy? You have very odd priorities.

How much news time is taken up by terrorism? Traffic accidents? What about AIDS, all through the 80s and 90s? Ebola? Earthquakes, shark attacks? COVID-19 kills more than all of those put together.

How much of your news time do you waste on the Kardashians, the latest celebrity feud, or the sage observations of some K-Pop boy or girl band?

I think your argument is losing steam pretty quickly. Quit before you get too far behind.

Last edited by Guest; 23.06.2020 at 23:54.
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  #10490  
Old 23.06.2020, 23:09
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Re: Coronavirus

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So something that increases the daily death toll by over 2% is not newsworthy?
Even when you misquote me you can't build up a well thought out argument

As I said, but let me repeat, I certainly take it into my personal consideration, thanks for asking. However, your numbers are just wrong. plain and simple. Cardiovascular deaths daily are over 10x more than Covid. Cancers are 7x more daily than Covid. In fact, daily there are more liver disease deaths than covid, and yet, there's no news whatsoever today on why people should stop drinking.
This is the problem: the problem of covid, which definitely exists, has been zoomed into and inflated to completely ridiculous proportions when in fact, it's actually a pretty minor reason for deaths.
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  #10491  
Old 24.06.2020, 00:14
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Re: Coronavirus

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Even when you misquote me you can't build up a well thought out argument

As I said, but let me repeat, I certainly take it into my personal consideration, thanks for asking. However, your numbers are just wrong. plain and simple. Cardiovascular deaths daily are over 10x more than Covid. Cancers are 7x more daily than Covid. In fact, daily there are more liver disease deaths than covid, and yet, there's no news whatsoever today on why people should stop drinking.
This is the problem: the problem of covid, which definitely exists, has been zoomed into and inflated to completely ridiculous proportions when in fact, it's actually a pretty minor reason for deaths.
How did I misquote you? COVID-19 accounts for more than 2% (I understand that you struggle with simple mathematics, so you'll have to trust me on this one) of the 150,000 daily deaths that you quoted. You objected to this fact occupying 90% (your figure, again, wrong though it is) of the news—this can only mean that you don't consider the COVID-19 death toll to be that newsworthy. Or did you mean that it deserves more coverage?

Yes, there are many conditions, diseases and circumstances that kill many more people than COVID-19. Like malaria, malnutrition and influenza prior to April this year, all of which go relatively unreported by the media. But no large-scale, global killer grows at anything remotely approaching the rate of COVID-19, which went from killing almost nobody at the start of this year to over 2.5% of ALL deaths 5.5 months later. And nobody knows where it'll be at the end of the year. Hopefully 0%, but unfortunately there are a lot of people who discount the disease and its virus as "negligible" and oppose efforts to contain it, so I suspect it will stay in the news for quite some time yet.

I bet you get really wound up by a contraction in GDP of more than 2%, but dismiss 2+% excess deaths as negligible.

Which of "my" numbers do you find "wrong, plain and simple"?
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  #10492  
Old 24.06.2020, 00:35
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Re: Coronavirus

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Even when you misquote me you can't build up a well thought out argument

As I said, but let me repeat, I certainly take it into my personal consideration, thanks for asking. However, your numbers are just wrong. plain and simple. Cardiovascular deaths daily are over 10x more than Covid. Cancers are 7x more daily than Covid. In fact, daily there are more liver disease deaths than covid, and yet, there's no news whatsoever today on why people should stop drinking.
This is the problem: the problem of covid, which definitely exists, has been zoomed into and inflated to completely ridiculous proportions when in fact, it's actually a pretty minor reason for deaths.
You are falling into the usual naive trap of comparing annual deaths worldwide with the deaths from COVID-19 over a much shorter period and from a subset of the countries in the world.

Let us take the US as an example.

COVID-19 is the already the seventh-highest cause of annual US deaths although it was only killing people for 4 months.

Annual US deaths from heart disease are around 650,000 so around 220,00 for four months.
COVID-19 deaths in four months are ca. 120,000.
So Cardiovascular deaths are around 2x more, not 10x times as you claim.

Total annual US deaths 41,743 (1917) due to Chronic Liver Disease and Cirrhosis so a lot less than COVID-19

Edit; first reported US COVID-19 deaths were on March 15th so COVID-19 deaths were actually over less than the four months I used in my calculation.
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  #10493  
Old 24.06.2020, 06:10
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Re: Coronavirus

"Recovered" doesn't mean healthy again.

Older people may be over-represented in COVID-19 mortality figures, but others may suffer sequelae for life.

What they don't tell you about surviving COVID-19.

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  #10494  
Old 24.06.2020, 07:11
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Re: Coronavirus

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"Recovered" doesn't mean healthy again.

Older people may be over-represented in COVID-19 mortality figures, but others may suffer sequelae for life.

What they don't tell you about surviving COVID-19.

https://www.sfgate.com/news/editorsp...g-15347792.php

Trash news!
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  #10495  
Old 24.06.2020, 07:59
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Re: Coronavirus

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You are falling into the usual naive trap of comparing annual deaths...
I will type in this s-l-o-w-e-r so you can read it more carefully
150k deaths DAILY overall
3600 deaths DAILY from Covid

DAILY cardiovascular deaths are over 10x more than Covid and DAILY cancer deaths are 7x more than covid. DAILY. Which means every day. not annually. As i pointed out to the other EF members who have a problem with scaling and risk assessment and context, liver disease DAILY deaths outnumber covid too.

Now please continue with the avalanche of biased BBC articles
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Old 24.06.2020, 08:04
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Re: Coronavirus

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I will type in this s-l-o-w-e-r so you can read it more carefully
150k deaths DAILY overall
3600 deaths DAILY from Covid

DAILY cardiovascular deaths are over 10x more than Covid and DAILY cancer deaths are 7x more than covid. DAILY. Which means every day. not annually. As i pointed out to the other EF members who have a problem with scaling and risk assessment and context, liver disease DAILY deaths outnumber covid too.

Now please continue with the avalanche of biased BBC articles
And many from these deaths had pre existing complications. But they just lump them all together for their political goals
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Old 24.06.2020, 08:13
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Re: Coronavirus

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And many from these deaths had pre existing complications. But they just lump them all together for their political goals
Lets discuss this complicated calculus level problem once the mathematically challenged get a hang of the basic arithmetic
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  #10498  
Old 24.06.2020, 08:16
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Re: Coronavirus

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Lets discuss this complicated calculus level problem once the mathematically challenged get a hang of the basic arithmetic
Correction. And many from these Covid deaths..................................
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Old 24.06.2020, 08:45
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Re: Coronavirus

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I will type in this s-l-o-w-e-r so you can read it more carefully
150k deaths DAILY overall
3600 deaths DAILY from Covid

DAILY cardiovascular deaths are over 10x more than Covid and DAILY cancer deaths are 7x more than covid. DAILY. Which means every day. not annually. As i pointed out to the other EF members who have a problem with scaling and risk assessment and context, liver disease DAILY deaths outnumber covid too.

Now please continue with the avalanche of biased BBC articles
But that isnít the point.
Those deaths occur every day in any case. The COVID deaths are extra deaths above what is normally expected, the difference is that COVID is hopefully a short lived temporary situation whereas the other deaths arenít.
Thatís why itís newsworthy, itís new and unknown.
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Old 24.06.2020, 09:50
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Re: Coronavirus

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But that isn’t the point.
Yep, the point is that since Covid, magically Assad stopped using chemical weapons, Venezuela and China stopped abusing democracy and Russia stopped harassing Ukraine Nothing else seems to be happening, it's only Covid.

for me the learning is how naive is the average voter and how narrow and limited is the field-view, so yes, i'm watching the whole story with great interest.

In the everlasting words of George Carlin — 'Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.'
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