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  #10961  
Old 12.07.2020, 09:09
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Re: Coronavirus

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It might turn out to having been a step too far but we all didn't know how to deal with this. There had to be a quick first reaction in order to find out what is being dealt with. I'm totally okay with this.
Also Switzerland might (or might not, that's not my point) have handled it differently if truly independent from the world but - being right in the heart of Europe - could not just chose a different path to go. I'm totally okay with that too. Not to mention all these people who seem to need to be ordered to do or not do things instead of looking at a situation and take their own precautions/actions according to their risk-situation would have been totally lost, the outcry would have been thonderous.
I don't really understand the hindsight discussions about was it right or wrong with people trying to "win" - win what?
The point now would be to find out how to react a next time, can we prepare re hospitals in a manner that doesn't leave them useless in "healthy" times, which measurements were very effective and quickly so that they should be repeated first a next time and which were more harm- than helpful?

I personally think it was a bit overboard but that is my feeling and I totally stand behind the decisions the Swiss government took at the time.
Had I been in the position to decide for others I might have taken the same path.
Agree with this 100%, I think and have already said that Switzerland has handled the pandemic admirably.

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And yet roughly all of Europe had no increase to speak of, despite being out of various levels of lockdown for over 2 months (sporadic clusters don't count as a "surge"), Belgium for instance shut down yet was hit worse than almost all other countries in relative terms obviously (though for some reason is never mentioned anywhere), SK never shut down and has had no issues to speak of, China merely shut down one province 6 weeks after presumably discovering the virus, claiming ridiculously unbelievable numbers now that there's actually some further data, and while Beijing or Shanghai - both less than 1000km away - barely had any cases to speak of compared to the size of their populations, the likes of NY, London or Milan, all significantly further away, presumably had significantly more cases and deaths. Months and months later no less.

Makes a whole lot of "sense".

It's beyond obvious that something's not right, and whatever the hell may be going on here, there's zero obvious patterns of cause and effect for any action in any direction.
This is the weird thing, even after all this time it’s incredible how little is still understood about how the virus behaves.
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  #10962  
Old 12.07.2020, 10:25
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Re: Coronavirus

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Yes, things could be worse. And thankfully they aren't too bad here right now. But the fact is, we really have no idea what the situation will be like 3+ months from now (or even next month, for that matter). Many scientists are saying that a bad second wave could hit this Autumn. The numbers here have begun to slowly rise in the past month or so, and we've already seen how quickly this thing can spread. So I think we need to be realistic rather than give in to "wishful thinking." Just because things feel more back to normal now doesn't mean that the virus is no longer something to worry about or that the situation couldn't be much worse in the future.
My point was not that all is nice and dandy. I just did not understand why some are still arguing that the lockdowns were excessive, harmful etc when the current (!) situation here seems to suggest that they were largely effective.
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  #10963  
Old 12.07.2020, 10:25
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Re: Coronavirus

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What makes you think I have an issue with anything in Switzerland?
Just a "hunch"
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  #10964  
Old 12.07.2020, 11:13
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Re: Coronavirus

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This is the weird thing, even after all this time it’s incredible how little is still understood about how the virus behaves.
Not weird at all. It’s barely half a year. It takes time to gather data and test hypotheses, gather more data and adjust. And sure, there have been similar viruses, but that’s not quite enough, imho.
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  #10965  
Old 12.07.2020, 21:16
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Re: Coronavirus

The Chinese are quite serious about quarantine.

I have neighbour who works for Swiss and flew to China last week.
The crew bus took them to their hotel.
There was a bag of food and drink in their rooms and their door was locked until their crew call the next day to fly back.
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  #10966  
Old 12.07.2020, 21:24
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Re: Coronavirus

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The Chinese are quite serious about quarantine.

I have neighbour who works for Swiss and flew to China last week.
The crew bus took them to their hotel.
There was a bag of food and drink in their rooms and their door was locked until their crew call the next day to fly back.
Swiss must be a terrible airline to work for if they fly the following day after a 17 hour flight. I do not believe this claim that they return the following day, it's not credible & amazed you posted it!

The thought that the pilots would have been up for roughly 24 hours & then are happy to fly again for 17 hours makes me never ever want to step foot in a Swiss plane, of course it's a total fabrication......
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Old 12.07.2020, 21:30
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Re: Coronavirus

I don’t think I wanna be holidaying in Florida anytime soon

Florida Sets Daily U.S. Record With Over 15,000 New Cases

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/12/w...s-updates.html
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  #10968  
Old 12.07.2020, 21:50
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Re: Coronavirus

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Swiss must be a terrible airline to work for if they fly the following day after a 17 hour flight. I do not believe this claim that they return the following day, it's not credible & amazed you posted it!

The thought that the pilots would have been up for roughly 24 hours & then are happy to fly again for 17 hours makes me never ever want to step foot in a Swiss plane, of course it's a total fabrication......

On long flights there are more pilots and they take periods of rests during the flight, it is very normal for a crew to fly back the next day.
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  #10969  
Old 12.07.2020, 23:15
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Re: Coronavirus

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On long flights there are more pilots and they take periods of rests during the flight, it is very normal for a crew to fly back the next day.
No worries Edwin this is an internet forum; people are allowed to give opinions on topics they have no knowledge of.

As you know depending on the destination and route they can also take extra pilots on the outgoing flight who only take the controls on the return flight.

During the lockdown and up until about a month ago they were not allowed to leave the plane in China and had to sleep in the plane overnight. Those cargoes only flights had a full reserve crew for the return flight including flight attendants.

They filled the seats with parcels.
Name:  swisscargo.jpg
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Edit; here are the FAA rules on pilot duty and rest time.
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Old 12.07.2020, 23:28
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Re: Coronavirus

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Swiss must be a terrible airline to work for if they fly the following day after a 17 hour flight. I do not believe this claim that they return the following day, it's not credible & amazed you posted it!

The thought that the pilots would have been up for roughly 24 hours & then are happy to fly again for 17 hours makes me never ever want to step foot in a Swiss plane, of course it's a total fabrication......
I've seen articles that the Swiss crews, because of the quarantine restrictions, would remain aboard their airplane and sleep in the 1st class. Where necessary, there would be two full crews, one for either way. IIRC that was in connection with mask tranports and several weeks ago, of course practice may have changed.
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Old 12.07.2020, 23:31
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Re: Coronavirus

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..... people are allowed to give opinions on topics they have no knowledge of.......
Which is why it's called opinion
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  #10972  
Old 13.07.2020, 13:15
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Re: Coronavirus

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On long flights there are more pilots and they take periods of rests during the flight, it is very normal for a crew to fly back the next day.
Not on Long Haul, where it's normal to spend several days before returning. I know numerous pilots who work full time which equals 4 long haul return flights a month.

There always used to be a 30 hour a Week, 100 hour a month, 1000 hour a year limit, has that gone the way of the dodo?
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  #10973  
Old 13.07.2020, 16:23
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Re: Coronavirus

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Not on Long Haul, where it's normal to spend several days before returning. I know numerous pilots who work full time which equals 4 long haul return flights a month.

There always used to be a 30 hour a Week, 100 hour a month, 1000 hour a year limit, has that gone the way of the dodo?
You are correct, it is still 1000 flying hours per year. Ryan Air pilots used to break them in 8-9 months and wet lease planes afterwards!
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Old 13.07.2020, 22:35
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Re: Coronavirus

"Herd immunity" not looking so hopeful
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People who have recovered from COVID-19 may lose their immunity to the virus within months, according to research released this month.

The Guy's and St. Thomas’ study found that 60 percent of the patients had a “potent” antibody response at the peak of their battle with the coronavirus. After about two months, however, just 16.7 percent of the patients had a potent antibody response.
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An important question yet to be answered is how well will a body remember and recognize virus reinfection and then how quickly manufacture the correct antibodies to fight the reinfection.
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Old 14.07.2020, 10:27
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Re: Coronavirus

Well I guess in that case, all the shouting for a vaccine is completely pointless as well.
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Old 14.07.2020, 10:42
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Re: Coronavirus

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"Herd immunity" not looking so hopeful


Source

An important question yet to be answered is how well will a body remember and recognize virus reinfection and then how quickly manufacture the correct antibodies to fight the reinfection.
I still have plenty of immunity after 5 months. In some ways this makes sense as I never saw a Dr, my immune system just dealt with the problem.
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Old 14.07.2020, 10:45
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Re: Coronavirus

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Well I guess in that case, all the shouting for a vaccine is completely pointless as well.
Or a wet dream from drug companies if everybody needs to be vaccinated every 2 months.
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Old 14.07.2020, 10:52
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Re: Coronavirus

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I still have plenty of immunity after 5 months.
How do you know? Did you retest for antibodies? It seems that it is an unreliable indication. The Covid19 streams mutate, too. Maybe you just haven't been exposed again to catch it again. The risk changes - behavior and exposure changes over the summer, too. Maybe fewer trips for groceries, public transport is not as filled, or whatever else..This is going to be tricky, though. Avoiding the infection and re-infection, I wonder how our life will be next year.
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Old 14.07.2020, 10:54
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Re: Coronavirus

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Or a wet dream from drug companies if everybody needs to be vaccinated every 2 months.
Or that.

Also fascinating how people love to bitch about the industry yet now are somehow desperate for a vaccine while at the same time doubting immunity is possible at all or claiming that to be "forced to get vaccinated" would be essentially unconstitutional. Ah, all the contradictions...
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Old 14.07.2020, 10:54
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Re: Coronavirus

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Well I guess in that case, all the shouting for a vaccine is completely pointless as well.
No or not necessarily. This was already considered by most teams before they started their work which is why the approaches being followed are mostly highly novel. They also have to assume a relatively high rate of mutation as is normal with RNA viruses. Also see Marton's last point. Even without immunity the severity of any second infection would be much reduced.

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I still have plenty of immunity after 5 months. In some ways this makes sense as I never saw a Dr, my immune system just dealt with the problem.
That "logic" makes no sense whatsoever. Also IIRC your test was a month or 2 back, you don't know what remains now.

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Or a wet dream from drug companies if everybody needs to be vaccinated every 2 months.
As has been previously stated in this thread, vaccines are not a major earner for drug companies which is why most of the larger ones don't dirty their hands with them. Current assumption is an immunity of a year or two, therefore possibly an annual shot, just like flu now.
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