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  #11021  
Old 17.07.2020, 15:05
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Re: Coronavirus

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Some people have a lot of knowledge but lack the ability to use it all properly.

Your link is a clear example of that.

It's like people knowing all the rules and how to move in Chess, but lack the deeper understanding of the tactics to ever win a game.

And purely the fact that somebody is a trained professional on its own means little to nothing to me, you can also find trained professionals who believe the earth is flat or 5G is very dangerous, bunch of idiots those are.
In fact anyone who has the audacity to step out of line with your narrow line of thinking you brand an idiot - or worse - and is subject to your ‚smack the mole‘ treatment.

Try and open your mind that there may be others on this planet who have ideas that might not always comply with yours...
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  #11022  
Old 17.07.2020, 15:23
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Re: Coronavirus

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In fact anyone who has the audacity to step out of line with your narrow line of thinking you brand an idiot - or worse - and is subject to your ‚smack the mole‘ treatment.

Try and open your mind that there may be others on this planet who have ideas that might not always comply with yours...
Following ideas that are contradicted by facts, or presenting opinions as facts even if such opinions are not backed with proof are both signs of stupidity.

Why should I open my mind for stupidity?

And if you think I should open my mind for those who say 5G is dangerous, or the earth is flat.... ROFLMAO
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  #11023  
Old 17.07.2020, 15:33
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Re: Coronavirus

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In fact anyone who has the audacity to step out of line with your narrow line of thinking you brand an idiot - or worse - and is subject to your ‚smack the mole‘ treatment.
EdwinNL opinion = fact
Facts on a viral disease from a Director of an Immunology Institute and Biology professor = stupid opinion
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  #11024  
Old 17.07.2020, 15:35
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Re: Coronavirus

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EdwinNL opinion = fact
Facts on a viral disease from a Director of an Immunology Institute and Biology professor = stupid opinion
I am actually pretty clear in my posts what is a proven fact or what should be seen as an opinion, you on the other hand just resort to a bunch of non-sensical babbling and trolling.
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  #11025  
Old 17.07.2020, 15:45
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Re: Coronavirus

OK, time out please? It is clear that not everyone agrees with everyone but could we please stick to the facts
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Old 17.07.2020, 15:48
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Re: Coronavirus

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I am actually pretty clear in my posts ..
Allow me to entertain myself once more
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herd-immunity....is a doomed to fail ...everybody with an IQ of 100 or more should see this

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This means that our T-cells, i.e. white blood cells, detect common structures appearing on Sars-CoV-2 and regular cold viruses and therefore combat both of them.
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...showed that immunity against Sars-Cov-2, measured in the form of antibodies, is much higher than previously thought.
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  #11027  
Old 17.07.2020, 16:07
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Re: Coronavirus

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Interesting question, I hope he gets back to you with an answer. Not dissing him rudely in a public space would help.
His headline:

"Why everyone was wrong". There are people researching COVID-19 all over the world. But they are all wrong, and he, of course, is right.

He's pompous by definition.

What else has he said:

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That’s when I realised that the entire world simply claimed that there was no immunity.
That's the first time I've heard anyone mention no immunity but apparently the whole world has said it.

He also writes:

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Epidemiologist also fell for the myth that there was no immunity in the population. They also didn’t want to believe that coronaviruses were seasonal cold viruses that would disappear in summer. Otherwise their curve models would have looked differently. When the initial worst case scenarios didn’t come true anywhere, some now still cling to models
They were worst-case. Given that they are the worst-case, the chances of them coming true are pretty small. Between best-case, and worse-case, there are a multitude of cases.
Due to the extensive lock-down here, the worst-case was luckily a long way off.

And:

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At the end of February, driving home from the recording of [a Swiss political TV debate show], I mentioned to Daniel Koch [former head of the Swiss federal section “Communicable Diseases” of the Federal Office of Public Health] that I suspected there was a general immunity in the population against Sars-Cov-2. He argued against my view. I later defended him anyway, when he said that children were not a driving factor in the spread of the pandemic. He suspected that children didn’t have a receptor for the virus, which is of course nonsense. Still, we had to admit that his observations were correct. But the fact that every scientist attacked him afterwards and asked for studies to prove his point, was somewhat ironic.
So he argued against someone, who turned out to be right, and then found it ironic that others also argued against that person whom he was arguing against.

That's ironic. He just can't see it.

Can't be bothered to go on.

Perhaps he ought to stick the science and not the journalism or blowing his own trumpet.
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  #11028  
Old 17.07.2020, 16:39
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Re: Coronavirus

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Allow me to entertain myself once more
First of all, if you quote people don't edit their sentences in a weak pathetic attempt to make it seem like they said something else.

I never said that herd-immunity could never occur, nor did I ever say that immunity does not exist, I said that herd-immunity for this virus during a pandemic is a failed idea. Work on your reading-ability I'd say.

Countries that went for herd-immunity all came back from this and changed their policy's btw

Besides that you use quotes that do not contradict what I said, you also use them from a person who says "everyone else is wrong" so if you like to respect the opinion of an educated person so much, than what makes this one opinion from this one educated person so much better than the opinion of all the other educated people? (I know the answer: it fits your narrative which is trolling this topic)
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  #11029  
Old 17.07.2020, 16:41
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Re: Coronavirus

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OK, time out please? It is clear that not everyone agrees with everyone but could we please stick to the facts
Maybe weed out the trolls for once, unless we give them this topic to turn it into a complete waste this will never stop and you know that.
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  #11030  
Old 17.07.2020, 16:47
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Re: Coronavirus

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Excellent article explaining that many of the silent carriers without symptoms who test positive, are actually immune as they already had a very similar flue from the Corona family.

My cousin‘s husband in the UK is now into his 11th week in a London intensive care unit, having been in an induced coma for weeks and suffering a heart attack. He is now conscious, confused and making slow progress to recovery. He is 80.

Meanwhile his wife of the same age, who shares the same house and bedroom has not been ill at all. The article suggests she could in fact be immune...
I found this to be an opinionated piece with no links to sources. Here some comments based on known facts.

From the article " this so-called novel virus is very strongly related to Sars-1 as well as other beta-coronaviruses which make us suffer every year in the form of colds. "

The way he has written this encourages people to jump to false conclusions.

He really should mention that the major cause of colds are rhinoviruses which are not related to the corona virus, coronas cause at most 20% of common colds.

He also wrote " Sars-Cov-2 isn’t all that new, but merely a seasonal cold virus that mutated and disappears in summer, as all cold viruses do — which is what we’re observing globally right now. "
&
"The virus is gone for now."

It is completely untrue that Sars-Cov-2 is gone or disappearing in Summer, take the US as one example of many Northern countries with increasing numbers of cases.
Name:  USnewcases170720.jpg
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Size:  74.2 KB

This is a real "Emporers clothes" article.
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  #11031  
Old 17.07.2020, 17:10
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Re: Coronavirus

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I found this to be an opinionated piece with no links to sources. Here some comments based on known facts...
I agree, it's an opinion piece. Let's also remember this version is a translation. Has anyone been able to check the original German to see if it's been altered and if so, by how much? It's behind a paywall.

Also this was written on 10 June, but is only becoming popular recently. Numbers have changed in many places, and not always for the better. I think KiwiSteve is right, they guy's article is being used for political and other pot-stirring purposes.
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  #11032  
Old 17.07.2020, 17:10
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Re: Coronavirus

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He also wrote " Sars-Cov-2 isn’t all that new, but merely a seasonal cold virus that mutated and disappears in summer, as all cold viruses do — which is what we’re observing globally right now. "
&
"The virus is gone for now."

It is completely untrue that Sars-Cov-2 is gone or disappearing in Summer, take the US as one example of many Northern countries with increasing numbers of cases.
It would be interesting to know if he ever admitted -- or rather, was willing to admit -- that he was wrong.
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  #11033  
Old 17.07.2020, 17:15
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Re: Coronavirus

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In fact anyone who has the audacity to step out of line with your narrow line of thinking you brand an idiot - or worse - and is subject to your ‚smack the mole‘ treatment.

Try and open your mind that there may be others on this planet who have ideas that might not always comply with yours...
Well now why would you even suggest that...

I mean this dude here, for example, must be a complete idiot for even suggesting the models and therefore most people were simply wrong. Granted, he's only a Stanford epidemiologist and one of the most cited researchers in the world, but what does he know. https://fee.org/articles/modelers-we...ing-the-price/

Now that there's actually some real data, I'm sure what physicians, epidemiologists, virologists, immunologists say now is so much less relevant than their statements at a time where they claimed there was no data at all. They're all just complete idiots with low IQs, because that's how that works.

Last edited by Samaire13; 17.07.2020 at 17:31. Reason: Typo
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  #11034  
Old 17.07.2020, 17:26
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Re: Coronavirus

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Well now why would you even suggest that...

I mean this dude here, for example, must be a complete idiot for even suggesting the models and therefore most people were simply wrong. Granted, he's only a Standford epidemiologist and one of the most cited researchers in the world, but what does he know. https://fee.org/articles/modelers-we...ing-the-price/

Now that there's actually some real data, I'm sure what physicians, epidemiologists, virologists, immunologists say now is so much less relevant than their statements at a time where they claimed there was no data at all. They're all just complete idiots with low IQs, because that's how that works.
You made my Friday afternoon...Hahahaha, I should stop laughing so hard in public Let's just say that the world will have to accept that some opinions are closer to truth, are in fact based on knowledge and experience, aren't therefore equal nor political and, most of all, do not stir the pot (just because they seem that they do to laïcs).
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  #11035  
Old 17.07.2020, 17:53
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Re: Coronavirus

I think it's quite clear that our understanding of the virus is and has been evolving. I don't have a problem with someone being wrong as much as I do with someone not being willing to admit it.

If someone is going to point their finger at the world and literally accuse everyone else of being wrong while simultaneously making false statements themselves (statements that prove to be wrong), as that guy did, well then... he better at least have the courage and decency to point the finger at himself.
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  #11036  
Old 17.07.2020, 19:01
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Re: Coronavirus

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Excellent article explaining that many of the silent carriers without symptoms who test positive, are actually immune as they already had a very similar flue from the Corona family.
If you're immune you're not infectuous - that's not a matter of biology but one of definitions.

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... it was claimed that one could be sick without having symptoms. Wouldn’t that be something!
That is of course a moronic claim. If you're sick you're having symptoms, that's an identity. You can however be infected without having symptoms, an HIV infection during the latent phase is a well-known example.

It would be interesting to know if that error is a result of the translation or not.

That said, this interview by the Tagesanzeiger (sorry, paywall) shows that he's at least selective. He simply ignores the outbreak in NY/NJ when he claims that the victims in the US are almost entirely either black or native. And the recent cases in the US (apparently the average age is in the 30ies) point strongly to the assumption that the protests play a significant role, falsifying his claim that big events (football, open air concerts, etc) are a small problem.

Last edited by Urs Max; 17.07.2020 at 19:12.
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  #11037  
Old 17.07.2020, 22:01
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Re: Coronavirus

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You made my Friday afternoon...Hahahaha, I should stop laughing so hard in public Let's just say that the world will have to accept that some opinions are closer to truth, are in fact based on knowledge and experience, aren't therefore equal nor political and, most of all, do not stir the pot (just because they seem that they do to laïcs).
Please explain what is laughable about over half a million people dying?

This was another one of those articles that claim the models forecasting many deaths were wrong while ignoring the fact that the models provided the justification for the lockdowns that reduced those forecast deaths.

The link referenced has some selected quotes from Ioannidis like "the mathematical models on which the lockdowns were based were horribly flawed." It also mentions his March STAT article but does not quote his forecast in the article of "about 10,000 US deaths.".

Then in the article we have "“I feel extremely sad that my predictions [his March STAT article] were verified,” Ioannidis said although his US deaths prediction was way out.
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  #11038  
Old 17.07.2020, 22:03
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Re: Coronavirus

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Well now why would you even suggest that...

I mean this dude here, for example, must be a complete idiot for even suggesting the models and therefore most people were simply wrong. Granted, he's only a Stanford epidemiologist and one of the most cited researchers in the world, but what does he know. https://fee.org/articles/modelers-we...ing-the-price/
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You made my Friday afternoon...Hahahaha, I should stop laughing so hard in public Let's just say that the world will have to accept that some opinions are closer to truth, are in fact based on knowledge and experience, aren't therefore equal nor political and, most of all, do not stir the pot (just because they seem that they do to laïcs).
Ioannidis was heavily criticized when he published that opinion.

But let's see, after all he must know what he's talking about you say. He says that the official number of infected is too low by a factor of 50-85. With 3.3mln known cases, that means that 165-280mln "real" cases have already occurred, according to him.

Put another way, the upper limit of that band of "real" cases will exceed the entire US population in less than 10 days. The lower limit will exceed the entire population in about 7 weeks if the daily test-positives remain at ~70k, sooner if the daily test-positives keep increasing. When that lower band is hit, 100% of the US population will have been infected, and there will be no targets left for the virus. According to Ioannidis.

Somebody pass the popcorn please.

Last edited by Urs Max; 17.07.2020 at 22:16.
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  #11039  
Old 17.07.2020, 23:35
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Re: Coronavirus

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Please explain what is laughable about over half a million people dying?
How very malevolent of you. Who said I was laughing about that? The way Samaire wrote was hilarious.
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  #11040  
Old 18.07.2020, 22:09
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Re: Coronavirus

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And of course there's the worldwide shortage on vaccines
"According to the World Health Organization, in 2015, 77% of European countries reported experiencing a shortage of at least one vaccine since the beginning of the year."
That simply wouldn't happen if margins on vaccines were generally as big as GSK's.
To expand a bit on the topic (Ok, not on vaccines, but the issue is related):

According to IFPMA, the international big pharma association, 20+ big pharma companies are pooling resources and funds in a venture fund totalling $1bln with the aim to produce 2-4 new antibiotics by 2030.

This joint effort is necessary because production of antibiotics and the development of new ones isn't economically profitable. The reason behind this is a paradoxon: We are running out of potent antibiotics. To keep bacteria from developing resistances against the remaining potent few, they're used as little as possible. Thus the producing companies don't earn enough to stay in business, let alone fund research for more new substances, and go bankrupt - knowledge gets lost, no additional new antibiotics get developed. This fund aims to change that trend at least somewhat.

Without novel antibiotics our healthcare systems are bound to run into serious problems in a relatively short time, like a decade or two. Today already, it is estimated that 700'000 patients die worldwide because the infecting bacteria have developed resistances. Estimates predict up to 10 million such deaths each year by 2050.
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