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  #11041  
Old 18.07.2020, 22:37
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Re: Coronavirus

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To expand a bit on the topic (Ok, not on vaccines, but the issue is related):

According to IFPMA, the international big pharma association, 20+ big pharma companies are pooling resources and funds in a venture fund totalling $1bln with the aim to produce 2-4 new antibiotics by 2030.

This joint effort is necessary because production of antibiotics and the development of new ones isn't economically profitable. The reason behind this is a paradoxon: We are running out of potent antibiotics. To keep bacteria from developing resistances against the remaining potent few, they're used as little as possible. Thus the producing companies don't earn enough to stay in business, let alone fund research for more new substances, and go bankrupt - knowledge gets lost, no additional new antibiotics get developed. This fund aims to change that trend at least somewhat.

Without novel antibiotics our healthcare systems are bound to run into serious problems in a relatively short time, like a decade or two. Today already, it is estimated that 700'000 patients die worldwide because the infecting bacteria have developed resistances. Estimates predict up to 10 million such deaths each year by 2050.
Coronavirus is not a bacteria, can't be treated with antibiotics...The best vaccines for coronavirus is to face the virus and build immunity to ...
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  #11042  
Old 18.07.2020, 22:51
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Re: Coronavirus

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Coronavirus is not a bacteria, can't be treated with antibiotics...The best vaccines for coronavirus is to face the virus and build immunity to ...
I’m sure he wasn’t implying that coronaVIRUS be treated with antibiotics... rather that we could have more pandemics if new antibiotics aren’t found.... the plague can now be treated with antibiotics, but if it became resistant.......
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  #11043  
Old 19.07.2020, 00:56
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Re: Coronavirus

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I’m sure he wasn’t implying that coronaVIRUS be treated with antibiotics...
just look back in the thread. The amount of medical non-sense makes me happy! I'll keep my job for the foreseeable future
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  #11044  
Old 19.07.2020, 01:16
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Re: Coronavirus

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Ioannidis was heavily criticized when he published that opinion.
Dr. Ioannidis defended his past view in this interview on 15th July. The interviewer is good.

https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/933977#vp_1

Dr. Ioannidis admitted that the way he expressed could cause misunderstanding. He actually agreed with the draconian lockdown based on the limited knowledge and numbers available at that time.
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  #11045  
Old 19.07.2020, 03:57
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Re: Coronavirus

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Yep, trained professionals are dumb, Edwin from the NL on EF is the master guru.

https://medium.com/@vernunftundricht...g-fce6db5ba809
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This is really interesting.
Yes, very interesting that an alleged specialist would write such a pile of crap.

"Sars-Cov-2 isn’t all that new, but merely a seasonal cold virus that mutated and disappears in summer, as all cold viruses do — which is what we’re observing globally right now." How's that old chestnut holding up, as the US continues to report successive record numbers of new cases of COVID-19? Giving this person a platform to repeat Trump's denials and deflections is irresponsible and frankly, dangerous.
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  #11046  
Old 19.07.2020, 11:17
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Re: Coronavirus

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Yes, very interesting that an alleged specialist would write such a pile of crap.

"Sars-Cov-2 isn’t all that new, but merely a seasonal cold virus that mutated and disappears in summer, as all cold viruses do — which is what we’re observing globally right now." How's that old chestnut holding up, as the US continues to report successive record numbers of new cases of COVID-19? Giving this person a platform to repeat Trump's denials and deflections is irresponsible and frankly, dangerous.
An example of the virus disappearing in Summer - the US Southern States temperatures 30+C

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  #11047  
Old 19.07.2020, 11:32
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Re: Coronavirus

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An example of the virus disappearing in Summer - the US Southern States temperatures 30+C
Who wouldn't like to believe this guy?
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Old 19.07.2020, 11:35
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Re: Coronavirus

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Yep, trained professionals are dumb, Edwin from the NL on EF is the master guru.

https://medium.com/@vernunftundricht...g-fce6db5ba809
Well after the last two pages I think the general consensus seems to be that your trained professional indeed is dumb when it comes to this pandemic.
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  #11049  
Old 19.07.2020, 11:38
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Re: Coronavirus

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Coronavirus is not a bacteria, can't be treated with antibiotics...The best vaccines for coronavirus is to face the virus and build immunity to ...
It would have helped to scroll up and see what that was about: Profitability.

It started with profitability of vaccine development and production, which I took the liberty of expanding it into antibiotics.
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Who wouldn't like to believe this guy?
I bet everybody would love for that to be the case.
However, Singapore for instance made it clear basically from the beginning that this hope is probably just wishful thinking.
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Old 20.07.2020, 07:44
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Re: Coronavirus

Another day, another report estimating the damage of the lockdown

Lockdown may cost 200,000 lives, government report shows

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/202...-report-shows/

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Research shines a light on the reasons why the Government has been keen to lift lockdown, in spite of experts claiming it happened too soon

By
Sarah Knapton,

More than 200,000 people could die from the impact of lockdown and protecting the NHS, an official government report shows.

As national restrictions were imposed, experts from the Department of Health, the Office of National Statistics (ONS), the government’s Actuary Department and the Home Office forecast the collateral damage from delays to healthcare and the effects of recession arising from the pandemic response.

It estimated that in a reasonable worst case scenario, around 50,000 people would die from coronavirus in the first six months of the pandemic, with mitigation measures in place.

But in the report published in April they calculated that up to 25,000 could die from delays to treatment in the same period and a further 185,000 in the medium to long term - amounting to nearly one million years of life lost.

It comes amid debate over the easing of lockdown restrictions, with some arguing it is both too early to lift the measures and that they should have been imposed earlier, while other politicians have questioned whether the cure is worse than the disease.

Projected increased deaths within one year
Covid-19: 50,000
Delayed healthcare short term: 12,000 to 25,000
Delayed healthcare long term: 185,000
Recession: 600 to 12,000
Suicide: 500
Domestic violence: 20
Accidents at home: low tens

The Prime Minister has stressed his desire to avoid a return to national lockdown.

In an interview in The Telegraph, Boris Johnson likened the measures to a nuclear deterrent, and said he did not want to impose blanket restrictions again, or think it would be necessary.

The UK's National Statistician, Prof Sir Ian Diamond also said on Sunday that there had been no uptick in cases since lockdown measures had been eased but warned the nation would need to be vigilant come the autumn.

Professor Chris Whitty, the Chief Medical Officer (CMO), and Sir Patrick Vallance, the government’s chief scientific advisor (GSCA) have both expressed concern that the damage from lockdown could be severe.

The report came to light after Sir Patrick told MPs at the Science and Technology Select Committee last week that calculations had been made to predict the number of deaths caused by the effects of lockdown, which was announced on March 23.

The report produced in the following weeks warned there could be 500 more suicides during the first wave, and between 600 and 12,000 more deaths per year resulting from a recession which had a significant impact on GDP.

They also forecast around 20 more deaths this year through domestic violence, and an increase in the number of accidents at home - in the ‘low tens.’ In total, under a worst case scenario, around quarter of a million people would die because of the pandemic response.

The figures were based on 75 per cent of elective care being cancelled over six months without significant reprioritisation when things returned to normal.

The number of elective hospital appointments dropped to around a quarter of usual levels in March and April and had only recovered to around half by the beginning of July.

Charities have increasingly warned that delaying diagnosis, pausing surgery and postponing treatment is a ‘ticking time bomb’ which will cause long-term harm.

Figures released by Cancer Research UK today show that as of May 30, there were more than 180,000 people in England waiting for an endoscopy - a rise of 44 per cent from the same time in 2019.

And around 2.3 million fewer tests that help diagnose cancer have taken place since lockdown compared to the same time last year, and 51 per cent more people are waiting for colonoscopies.

Michelle Mitchell, Cancer Research UK’s chief executive, said: “Covid-19 has had a devastating impact on cancer patients and services across the UK.

“In the early weeks of lockdown urgent referrals plummeted, screening programmes were paused, surgeries were cancelled, clinical trials were put on hold, and existing health inequalities were exacerbated.

“It’s now more crucial than ever that the Government works closely with the NHS to ensure it has the staff and equipment it needs to clear the mounting backlog and get services back on track before this situation gets even worse – especially in the event of a second wave.”

The report points out that nearly 500,000 people would have died from coronavirus if the virus had been allowed to run through the population unchecked. And there would have been more than a million non-Covid deaths resulting from missed treatment if the health service had been overwhelmed in dealing with the pandemic.

But charities said more should have been done to get medical care up and running quickly when it became clear early on that the NHS was not stretched. Nightingale Hospitals in particular were largely empty even at the peak of the pandemic and have only recently been reassigned for normal care.

Dr Sonya Babu-Narayan, Associate Medical Director at the British Heart Foundation and Consultant Cardiologist, said it was a priority to restore heart and circulatory care: “This report is a sobering wake-up call for governments and the NHS across the UK to urgently restore and maintain care for people with medical conditions including heart and circulatory diseases.

“Although the latest statistics have shown fewer excess deaths in recent weeks, people are still experiencing delays in accessing vital treatment and care, which could make them sicker and ultimately lead to more deaths from both undiagnosed and existing conditions.

“The growing and significant backlog must be tackled to prevent a tidal wave of illness overwhelming the NHS whilst it’s fighting Covid-19.”

Last week, the University of Oxford found that 5,000 fewer heart attack patients had attended hospital from March to May, many of whom could have died through lack of medical care.

The Institute of Cancer Research (ICR) also warned that delays in diagnosis and treatment meant many people who would have recovered from their illness were now facing incurable cancer.

Modelling by the ICR suggests that a three-month delay to surgery alone across all Stage 1-3 cancers could cause more than 4,700 attributable deaths per year in England.

Clare Turnbull, Professor of Cancer Genomics at The Institute of Cancer Research, London, said: “Lockdown and re-deployment of NHS workers as a result of the COVID-19 pandemic is causing significant disruption to cancer diagnosis and management.

“For patients with cancer, delay of surgery has the real potential to increase the likelihood of advanced disease, with some patients’ tumours progressing from being curable – with near normal life expectancy – to non-curable – with limited life expectancy.

“At this point, it is crucial to ramp up capacity as quickly as possible to allow cancer services to clear the backlog accumulated during lockdown.”

Figures released last week from Target Ovarian Cancer showed that more than half of women with ovarian cancer surveyed said their treatment had been affected by coronavirus.

Annwen Jones OBE, Chief Executive of Target Ovarian Cancer, said: “It’s hard to overstate the difficulties faced by women with ovarian cancer during this pandemic. We must not let them down as health services recover.

“It is urgent that we now see comprehensive plans and a timeline for the full restoration of diagnostic, treatment and support services. This is the only way to avoid worse outcomes and a devastating toll on women’s lives.”

Data compiled by The Telegraph showed that by the end of May there had been more than 23,000 excess deaths in care homes or at home, not linked to Covid-19, since the middle of March.

There are also fears that the government’s ‘protect the NHS’ message was too effective, with many people staying away from hospitals when they needed urgent medical help.

In April, Chief Executive of NHS England Sir Simon Stevens was forced to issue an urgent message asking people to come forward if they needed treatment.

However the report did predict some good news for lockdown. Experts calculated that there would be approximately 200 - 500 fewer road traffic and air pollution deaths, 67 fewer murders and a small drop in work related accidents during the six month first wave period.

There may also be a positive impact on health as a result of increased physical activity as people take the opportunity to use their one instance of daily exercise, the authors state, although they also warn that some may become more sedentary whilst staying home. And there is some evidence that recessions can improve mortality rates, possibly saving a few thousands lives.
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  #11051  
Old 20.07.2020, 07:52
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Re: Coronavirus

There's also more embarrassment for Public Health England in the way they've been recording Covid deaths, basically if someone has had Covid at anytime and then they subsequently die of something else, even having recovered from Covid, then it is the ONLY thing that will go on their death certificate. Given the average age of Covid deaths is over 80 this could have meant quite an overestimation in the number of Coronavirus related deaths in England.

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...w/77017397.cms
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Old 20.07.2020, 09:32
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Re: Coronavirus

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Well after the last two pages I think the general consensus seems to be that your trained professional indeed is dumb when it comes to this pandemic.
Yes, as already confirmed the EF BS (Brain truSt) is waaaay wiser than someone who happens to be running an immunology institute

p.s. feel free to send me one of your typical grumpy comments privately, you've missed the weekend and the last one from you is from friday only and I am starting to worry if all is good with you
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Old 20.07.2020, 12:25
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Re: Coronavirus

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There's also more embarrassment for Public Health England in the way they've been recording Covid deaths, basically if someone has had Covid at anytime and then they subsequently die of something else, even having recovered from Covid, then it is the ONLY thing that will go on their death certificate. Given the average age of Covid deaths is over 80 this could have meant quite an overestimation in the number of Coronavirus related deaths in England.

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...w/77017397.cms
Another overestimatimstion? You don't say?!
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Old 20.07.2020, 12:39
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Re: Coronavirus

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Another day, another report estimating the damage of the lockdown

Lockdown may cost 200,000 lives, government report shows

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/202...-report-shows/
From that report:

"Projected increased deaths within one year
Covid-19: 50,000
Delayed healthcare short term: 12,000 to 25,000
Delayed healthcare long term: 185,000
Recession: 600 to 12,000
Suicide: 500
Domestic violence: 20
Accidents at home: low tens"

So they're expecting something like 220,000 increased deaths IN ONE YEAR due to the lockdown.

I really don't think so. Shall we call that an "overestimation"?

How does "Delayed healthcare long term" result in 185,000 deaths in one year? Utter nonsense.

Moreover, the report claims that "up to 25,000 could die from delays to treatment in the same period and a further 185,000 in the medium to long term - amounting to nearly one million years of life lost". That's less than five years of life lost per person, which, if I understand your previous posts on the disproportionate dearth rate for COVID-19 on the aged correctly, is inconsequential. And all these deaths are going to happen in one year! That was a lot of people who were going to die in a short space of time anyway!

Did the report mention how many of those compromised people requiring hospital care for other maladies would have died from COVID-19 had there been no lockdown?
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Old 20.07.2020, 13:26
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Re: Coronavirus

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From that report:

"Projected increased deaths within one year
Covid-19: 50,000
Delayed healthcare short term: 12,000 to 25,000
Delayed healthcare long term: 185,000
Recession: 600 to 12,000
Suicide: 500
Domestic violence: 20
Accidents at home: low tens"

So they're expecting something like 220,000 increased deaths IN ONE YEAR due to the lockdown.

I really don't think so. Shall we call that an "overestimation"?

How does "Delayed healthcare long term" result in 185,000 deaths in one year? Utter nonsense.

Moreover, the report claims that "up to 25,000 could die from delays to treatment in the same period and a further 185,000 in the medium to long term - amounting to nearly one million years of life lost". That's less than five years of life lost per person, which, if I understand your previous posts on the disproportionate dearth rate for COVID-19 on the aged correctly, is inconsequential. And all these deaths are going to happen in one year! That was a lot of people who were going to die in a short space of time anyway!

Did the report mention how many of those compromised people requiring hospital care for other maladies would have died from COVID-19 had there been no lockdown?
Actually the 185,000 is a complete BS number anyway. Cannot be arsed to subscribe to the Torygraph but fortunately the Graun has linked to the report itself in their ticker. What it actually says is...:

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...We are unable to provide a detailed estimate of the impact of these changes to healthcare activity as it is unclear precisely what activity would be postponed, for how long, what knock-on impact this would have on future patient waits, and how a delay in treatment would affect outcomes. Instead, we have modelled a scenario whereby we assume 75% of elective care activity is stopped for a period of six months. Various evidence supports the estimate that 75% of elective care has been postponed, but it is unclear how long the postponement will be for. This activity represents around £17bn of expenditure over a six-month period. If this activity were cancelled entirely it would result in an estimated 185,000 additional deaths ...
So basically if care activity was cancelled completely for 6 months there would be 185,000 additional deaths. But the report itself states there is perhaps a 75% drop, not 100%, and for an unspecified amount of time (probably 2 to 3 months in reality).

Clickbait journalism at its worst in the way the Telegraph have reported it.

Oh and the UK would close to 0.5 million Coronavirus deaths if they hadn't had a lockdown. http://www.pulsetoday.co.uk/news/loc...040960.article
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  #11056  
Old 20.07.2020, 13:45
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Re: Coronavirus

OMG, more and more bad news coming in! If even the BBC had to say this it means they're running out of alarmist BS to publish!

EdwinNL, quickly, find something alarming!

"Public immunity ‘significantly higher’ than tests suggest"

"The number of people who have coronavirus immunity could be higher than antibody tests suggest"

"...roughly 30 per cent of the blood donors who had given blood in May 2020 had COVID-19-specific T-cells, a figure that’s much higher than previous antibody tests have shown.”

https://www.sciencefocus.com/news/co...tests-suggest/

https://www.bbc.com/future/article/2...-from-covid-19
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  #11057  
Old 20.07.2020, 14:15
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Re: Coronavirus

It is sort of funny and pathetic at the same time how it is the same group of small people circle jerking around their false prophets.
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Old 20.07.2020, 14:26
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Re: Coronavirus

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It is sort of funny and pathetic at the same time how it is the same group of small people circle jerking around their false prophets.
Some people just want to watch the world burn. It seems some will be very upset if it does not burn but smoulder for a while.
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Old 20.07.2020, 14:28
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Re: Coronavirus

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"Public immunity ‘significantly higher’ than tests suggest"

"The number of people who have coronavirus immunity could be higher than antibody tests suggest"

"...roughly 30 per cent of the blood donors who had given blood in May 2020 had COVID-19-specific T-cells, a figure that’s much higher than previous antibody tests have shown.”

https://www.sciencefocus.com/news/co...tests-suggest/

https://www.bbc.com/future/article/2...-from-covid-19

Interesting articles. However, the conclusion in the work from Karolinska Institutet is not enough to prove that more than 30% of the population has been infected. Look at this published work on Nature, one of the most prestigious scientific journals:



https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-020-2550-z


"Surprisingly, we also frequently detected SARS-CoV-2 specific T cells in individuals with no history of SARS, COVID-19 or contact with SARS/COVID-19 patients"


It might mean that the Covid specific T cells can also be generated by other viruses in the corona family. This is actually also suggested in your bbc link.
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Old 20.07.2020, 16:12
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Re: Coronavirus

I just noticed this as the main headline on BBC and thought I'd share it here...

BREAKING: Coronavirus: Oxford vaccine can train immune system

"A coronavirus vaccine developed by the University of Oxford appears safe and trains the immune system.

Trials involving 1,077 people showed the injection led to them making antibodies and white blood cells that can fight coronavirus.

The findings are hugely promising, but it is still too soon to know if this is enough to offer protection and larger trials are under way."

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-53469839


So I'm not posting this to get into a debate about vaccines. I just wanted to share something that might offer a glimmer of hope.

I also saw in the news today that masks were just made mandatory in all enclosed public spaces in France.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-53471497
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