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  #11121  
Old 23.07.2020, 11:58
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Re: Coronavirus

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However you still might want to rethink the idea of sending her there.
The camp will be reserved for the kids from our town, basically the same kids she has contact with during her school and afterschool activities, and our canton Zurich is leading in new infections at the moment. So I cannot find any reasons why staying in Graubünden could be more dangerous. We are also going to stay in a hotel just 100 m from the camp with the rest of the family, so camp or no camp we are going there anyway unless the situation in Graubünden worsens significantly comparing to Zurich, which I personally don't expect.
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  #11122  
Old 23.07.2020, 12:13
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Re: Coronavirus

Another day and ANOTHER study, this time printed in the Lancet, indicating the ineffectiveness of lockdown.

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Rapid border closures, full lockdowns, and wide-spread testing were not associated with COVID-19 mortality per million people.
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/e...208-X/fulltext
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  #11123  
Old 23.07.2020, 12:13
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Re: Coronavirus

New Scientist, 25 June 2020
The coronavirus is leaving some people with permanent lung damage
https://www.newscientist.com/article...-lung-damage/#


BBC, 23 June 2020
Coronavirus: Warning thousands could be left with lung damage
https://www.bbc.com/news/health-53065340


CIDRAP, Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy, 30th June 2020
Study finds lung impairment in recovering COVID-19 patients
https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-pers...id-19-patients
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  #11124  
Old 23.07.2020, 12:24
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Re: Coronavirus

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You all seem to be shifting away from the mortality of the disease as data is not support this theory anymore and now seem to be raising alarmist bells based on some unproven fictions about long-term damage. So, I was curious where is this bed-time scary story coming from, that's all. But you made it clear, it doesn't exist. Thanks!
You seem to have misunderstood my answer.

To repeat you cannot have data on long term effects after a short term.

If you use google you will see there are a number of major studies on long term effects but the results will not appear for some time.

As others posted here, there is xray evidence of permanent lung damage. Any long term effects on other organs will likely take some time to evidence.

Of course you are free to have your opinion that there is no long term damage but expecting data on such damage in the short term is an unrealistic expectation
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  #11125  
Old 23.07.2020, 12:27
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Re: Coronavirus

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Another day and ANOTHER study, this time printed in the Lancet, indicating the ineffectiveness of lockdown.



https://www.thelancet.com/journals/e...208-X/fulltext
Interesting! I will go through the methods and results sections tonight, but currently they seem to have calculated relative risk and confidence intervals with quite a few variables together. Naturally, 95% CI is acceptable, but at the same time not surprising with 3 variables bundled together. Time to brush up my statistics skills which haven't been used since my PhD times!
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  #11126  
Old 23.07.2020, 12:29
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Re: Coronavirus

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New Scientist, 25 June 2020
The coronavirus is leaving some people with permanent lung damage
https://www.newscientist.com/article...-lung-damage/#
From this article:

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The numbers of people affected aren’t yet known, but estimates are as high as one in five of those who needed intensive care treatment for covid-19.
The chances of being hospitalized with Covid are already very very small (especially for healthy people below 65), the chances of going into intensive care are even smaller, and this article is saying that 1 in 5 TOPS of those in intensive care may have long term lung damage. This is NOTHING to be concerned about!
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  #11127  
Old 23.07.2020, 12:32
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Re: Coronavirus

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From this article:



The chances of being hospitalized with Covid are already very very small (especially for healthy people below 65), the chances of going into intensive care are even smaller, and this article is saying that 1 in 5 TOPS of those in intensive care may have long term lung damage. This is NOTHING to be concerned about!

That is what you think. Talk to the people who did have the virus and/or lost relatives through the virus. They aren´t flippant about it.
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  #11128  
Old 23.07.2020, 12:35
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Re: Coronavirus

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Another day and ANOTHER study, this time printed in the Lancet, indicating the ineffectiveness of lockdown.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/e...208-X/fulltext
The article does not claim lockdown was ineffective, you should read all of it.
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  #11129  
Old 23.07.2020, 12:40
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Re: Coronavirus

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That is what you think. Talk to the people who did have the virus and/or lost relatives through the virus. They aren´t flippant about it.
The same way the relatives of those affected by cancer or MND or drink drivers are not so flippant about those things. It still doesn't change the statistics though.
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  #11130  
Old 23.07.2020, 12:43
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Re: Coronavirus

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From this article:

The chances of being hospitalized with Covid are already very very small (especially for healthy people below 65), the chances of going into intensive care are even smaller, and this article is saying that 1 in 5 TOPS of those in intensive care may have long term lung damage. This is NOTHING to be concerned about!
"The chances of being hospitalized with Covid are already very very small (especially for healthy people below 65)"
Of course, healthy people of any age are not hospitalised
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  #11131  
Old 23.07.2020, 12:56
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Re: Coronavirus

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To repeat you cannot have data on long term effects after a short term.
Oh, don't take this with me! I was merely asking where did this come from as so many people seem to be agreeing with the below point that has no data backing whatsoever.

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Why is death the only endpoint that you're interested in? So if you "recover" from COVID-19 but have permanent lung damage and additional serious health issues affecting other parts of your body, everything's hunky-dory? Yeah, that doesn't seem to justify measures to prevent widespread infection.
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  #11132  
Old 23.07.2020, 13:01
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Re: Coronavirus

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So my question where is this info coming from is non-sensical, but the claim that there is long term damage is not nonsensical?
They key part in the post by 22 yards that you quoted is the word ‘if’.
It is a hypothetical scenario and he is not claiming that there is actual long term damage at this moment because the time scale is too short.
That’s why asking for evidence of it is nonsensical.

There have been studies showing ‘permanent’ lung damage with fibrosis and scarring and clots in ‘recovered’ coronavirus patients. What is not known is what the long term effects of this will be and how it will affect the quality of life of these people.
It is possible for people to compensate for lung damage and recover some lung function and to create blood vessels to bypass clots etc so all we can do is monitor and see how things progress in the longer term.
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  #11133  
Old 23.07.2020, 13:01
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Re: Coronavirus

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Oh, don't take this with me! I was merely asking where did this come from as so many people seem to be agreeing with the below point that has no data backing whatsoever.
What "data backing" do you want?
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  #11134  
Old 23.07.2020, 13:04
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Re: Coronavirus

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They key part in the post by 22Yards that you quoted is the word ‘if’.
Thank you! In other words, speculative, non-data driven statement
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  #11135  
Old 23.07.2020, 13:09
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Re: Coronavirus

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Thank you! In other words, speculative, non-data driven statement
Which is exactly why your question was ridiculous and you know it.

Still if it amuses you to behave like a jerk who am I to argue!
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  #11136  
Old 23.07.2020, 13:16
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Re: Coronavirus

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Which is exactly why your question was ridiculous and you know it.
I do. But the alarmist camp didn't see it. Now they do
mission accomplished
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  #11137  
Old 23.07.2020, 13:55
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Re: Coronavirus

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I do. But the alarmist camp didn't see it. Now they do
mission accomplished
And that is your speculative, non-data driven statement that "the alarmist camp didn't see it. Now they do".
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Old 23.07.2020, 13:58
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Re: Coronavirus

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Studies suggest that children are bad transmitters of the virus. (Example study below)

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...ch-study-shows
This would be the same children who catch colds and flu at school and bring them home?

Hands up all parents who have (or had) school age children who brought such illnesses home.

Last edited by marton; 23.07.2020 at 15:15.
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Old 23.07.2020, 14:16
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Re: Coronavirus

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This would be the same children who catch colds and flu at school and bring them home?

Hands up all parents who have (or had) school age children who brought sich illnesses home.
1st Six months at daycare are also legendary, they attract all 7 plagues of Egypt and are friendly enough to share it all
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Old 23.07.2020, 14:20
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Re: Coronavirus

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This would be the same children who catch colds and flu at school and bring them home?

Hands up all parents who have (or had) school age children who brought sich illnesses home.

So what is the eloquent solution to the perceived threat of the kids going back to school?
They have to be educated, the system is geared up for them being in classrooms of a certain size. The parents can't stay at home indefinitely, parents cannot home school in general, and don't want to either.
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