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Old 23.07.2020, 13:45
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Re: Coronavirus

I think we need to keep in mind that keeping kids home from school wouldn't be permanent. It would only be necessary when the numbers need to be brought down and kept down. Kids can be taught via online classes for a while. Or perhaps even have the classes much smaller so they can be social distanced more easily (e.g. each kid only goes two or three times per week, etc., where the classes are broken up).

Maybe even each child's individual situation should be considered. For example, whether or not one of their parents can watch them at home. For those who can easily stay home, they can be taught via online classes. And for those who cannot easily stay home, they can go to school with smaller classes that are 'social distanced.' My sister is a 3rd grade teacher in the US and told me that she felt like teaching her classes online went really well and that she didn't feel or notice that it was really having any kind of negative impact on her ability to teach or how well the kids learned.

The way I see it, at least... If we really want to get this pandemic behind us -- and to stay there -- we need to shift our patterns. And that is going to require some degree of sacrifice on everyone's part and the willingness to stray from the norm for a while. When I see what's happening in the US right now, I see what can potentially happen when lockdowns are ended too early and when people refuse to follow social distancing rules, etc. And I don't think any of us here want to see the situation in CH become anywhere nearly as bad as it is in the US now. I also don't think that any of us want to still be dealing with this pandemic a year from now.
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  #11142  
Old 23.07.2020, 14:06
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Re: Coronavirus

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You all seem to be shifting away from the mortality of the disease as data is not support this theory anymore and now seem to be raising alarmist bells based on some unproven fictions about long-term damage. So, I was curious where is this bed-time scary story coming from, that's all. But you made it clear, it doesn't exist. Thanks!
Hrmph

The vast majority of these hospitalised cases in a Roman clinic suffer from at least one symptom after recovery. Their mean age of 56.5 seems roughly consistent with the average elsewhere, so nothing immediately outstanding on that front. Their mean length of hospital stay of 13.5 days seems to be longer than the average here though, I seem to remember 8-9-10 days around here.

These ex-patients were tested and questioned ~60 days after recovery (as defined by WHO), from April 21 to May 29. 14 refused to participate, 22 tested positive again(!!). Of the remaining 143 (80% of the total)
- 13% reported no persistent symptoms
- 32% one or two persistent symptoms, predominantly fatigue or dyspnea (short breath)
- 55% report 3 or more

73% had interstitial pneumonia, no idea how representative that is. Still...

Not sure what's supposed to be overblown here. Sure, it's an early study and the population could be larger, but you can't expect 10-year data with this virus yet.
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  #11143  
Old 23.07.2020, 14:21
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Re: Coronavirus

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Not sure what's supposed to be overblown here. Sure, it's an early study and the population could be larger, but you can't expect 10-year data with this virus yet.
Quote from your link
"None of the patients had fever or any signs or symptoms of acute illness..."

In other words, the recovery seems to be very much in line with the recovery pattern of a flu.
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  #11144  
Old 23.07.2020, 14:35
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Re: Coronavirus

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1st Six months at daycare are also legendary, they attract all 7 plagues of Egypt and are friendly enough to share it all
Please do not remind me
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  #11145  
Old 23.07.2020, 14:38
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Re: Coronavirus

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Quote from your link
"None of the patients had fever or any signs or symptoms of acute illness..."

In other words, the recovery seems to be very much in line with the recovery pattern of a flu.
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In other words, speculative, non-data driven statement
Hmmmmmmm
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Old 23.07.2020, 14:46
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Re: Coronavirus

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Hmmmmmmm
I think you got confused. In short: 22 Yards made a speculation which was refuted by the study by UrsMax.

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Why is death the only endpoint that you're interested in? So if you "recover" from COVID-19 but have permanent lung damage and additional serious health issues affecting other parts of your body, everything's hunky-dory? Yeah, that doesn't seem to justify measures to prevent widespread infection.
Quote from UrsMax's link

"None of the patients had fever or any signs or symptoms of acute illness..."
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  #11147  
Old 23.07.2020, 14:47
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Re: Coronavirus

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Quote from your link
"None of the patients had fever or any signs or symptoms of acute illness..."

In other words, the recovery seems to be very much in line with the recovery pattern of a flu.
What does that have to do with the price of fish?

Absence of acute illness is not the same as symptomless and fully recovered.
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  #11148  
Old 23.07.2020, 14:51
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Re: Coronavirus

This thread is becoming like the forum equivalent of trench warfare ...

One thought on schools: We can debate forever how much kids in which age are getting infected, symptomatic and/or and infectious. At some point real scientists will be able to tell us. But I am convinced that kids - if they were not going to school - would still have plenty of social interactions and would not distance. So school or not, they could come home with an infection.
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Old 23.07.2020, 14:53
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Re: Coronavirus

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I think you got confused. In short: 22 Yards made a speculation which was refuted by the study by UrsMax.



Quote from UrsMax's link

"None of the patients had fever or any signs or symptoms of acute illness..."
You do know what the word "acute" means, don't you? That quote that you just gave simply backs up the premise of the study: that the subjects had "recovered" from COVID-19, in that they appeared at that time—acutely—not to be ill. But as the study shows, many of the subjects had long-term—chronic—sequelae from the disease. You don't need years of data to conclude that irreparable lung damage is a long-term effect, just as you don't need to observe a patient for 20 years after cutting his legs off to conclude that he won't ever walk again without prophylactic help.
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  #11150  
Old 23.07.2020, 14:54
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Re: Coronavirus

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One thought on schools: We can debate forever how much kids in which age are getting infected, symptomatic and/or and infectious.
Can I just remind everyone that schools in Switzerland WERE opened, kids WENT back in school and finished the school year? It's summer break now, but since the easing of restrictions and getting back to school there hasn't been a spike, so, well, there's a data point.
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  #11151  
Old 23.07.2020, 15:15
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Re: Coronavirus

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I think we need to keep in mind that keeping kids home from school wouldn't be permanent. It would only be necessary when the numbers need to be brought down and kept down. Kids can be taught via online classes for a while. Or perhaps even have the classes much smaller so they can be social distanced more easily (e.g. each kid only goes two or three times per week, etc., where the classes are broken up).

Maybe even each child's individual situation should be considered. For example, whether or not one of their parents can watch them at home. For those who can easily stay home, they can be taught via online classes. And for those who cannot easily stay home, they can go to school with smaller classes that are 'social distanced.' My sister is a 3rd grade teacher in the US and told me that she felt like teaching her classes online went really well and that she didn't feel or notice that it was really having any kind of negative impact on her ability to teach or how well the kids learned.

The way I see it, at least... If we really want to get this pandemic behind us -- and to stay there -- we need to shift our patterns. And that is going to require some degree of sacrifice on everyone's part and the willingness to stray from the norm for a while. When I see what's happening in the US right now, I see what can potentially happen when lockdowns are ended too early and when people refuse to follow social distancing rules, etc. And I don't think any of us here want to see the situation in CH become anywhere nearly as bad as it is in the US now. I also don't think that any of us want to still be dealing with this pandemic a year from now.
How many disadvantaged children do you suppose have luxuries such as access to a laptop, or a room to study in, or supportive parents, or supervision for their study?! As ever in these situations it's the most disadvantaged that suffer most. Home schooling is no option, and certainly not long term. Depriving children of their right to an education is at the worse end of the spectrum with regard to the impact of the Coronavirus lockdown.
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  #11152  
Old 23.07.2020, 15:32
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Re: Coronavirus

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Can I just remind everyone that schools in Switzerland WERE opened, kids WENT back in school and finished the school year? It's summer break now, but since the easing of restrictions and getting back to school there hasn't been a spike, so, well, there's a data point.
True. And there has been a number of school-related outbreaks in other countries. Also data points.

Had you actually comprehended my post, you would have noticed that my argument was in favor of open schools.

Last edited by komsomolez; 23.07.2020 at 15:43.
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Old 23.07.2020, 15:39
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Re: Coronavirus

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Can I just remind everyone that schools in Switzerland WERE opened, kids WENT back in school and finished the school year? It's summer break now, but since the easing of restrictions and getting back to school there hasn't been a spike, so, well, there's a data point.
From Eidgenössisches Departement für Wirtschaft, Bildung und Forschung WBF Staatssekretariat für Wirtschaft SECO

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While it is clear that closing schools contributes to the virus’s containment, it is not clear to what extent, and there is no consensus on this issue between the various studies.
Actually there seems to be a lack of formal data on this point.
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  #11154  
Old 23.07.2020, 15:41
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Re: Coronavirus

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Actually there seems to be a lack of formal data on this point.
Actually schools were opened, finished the school year and no spike was recorded.
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  #11155  
Old 23.07.2020, 15:45
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Re: Coronavirus

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Actually schools were opened, finished the school year and no spike was recorded.

AFAIK lots of schools made sure not all kids are in the class together and most kids did not go to school every day. This is what happens if you do put them all together:


https://www.20min.ch/story/100-coron...r-363498929218
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Old 23.07.2020, 15:49
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Re: Coronavirus

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AFAIK lots of schools made sure not all kids are in the class together and most kids did not go to school every day. This is what happens if you do put them all together:


https://www.20min.ch/story/100-coron...r-363498929218
This is what CAN happen. Here in SZ school were open with regular classes, no problem. There seems to be some evidence that kids below 10 are hardly a problem - whereas teenagers are potentially as infectious as adults.
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  #11157  
Old 23.07.2020, 17:04
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Re: Coronavirus

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AFAIK lots of schools made sure not all kids are in the class together and most kids did not go to school every day.
AFAIK, this was only between May 11 and June 8 and only in some cantons. From June 8 all the schools are open in normal mode. Though few of them had to start summer holidays few days earlier because some of the teachers got the virus (the kids were not quarantined, though).
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Old 23.07.2020, 17:20
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Re: Coronavirus

I would assume there will be always some risk of infection also in schools, the question is how big it is. The risk seems low in comparison to other environments.

Of course this will be also a function of the overall prevalence of the virus in a population. If you have hardly any case in total, then the risk of spread in schools will also be low. If of course you have a virus running wild like currently in the US, you would want to be very careful with opening schools.

Having said that, I hope that schools are working on a remote-schooling plan for the event we would need to close schools again here. No, I am not alarmist and certainly want my kids to be in school - but at least the public schools here were not very sophisticated in organizing home school.
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  #11159  
Old 23.07.2020, 22:18
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Re: Coronavirus

Novartis allows working from home model for unlimited time after Corona

https://www.cdt.ch/onthespot/novarti...odel-CM2970613
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  #11160  
Old 24.07.2020, 10:30
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Do you know in which summer camp in Graubünden 7 cases of coronavirus have been revealed recently?

My daughter is going to the camp in Graubünden in a few weeks. I hope it's not cancelled.
Seems the main camp was in Parpan (next door to Lenzerheide), was music focused and they gave concerts in Davos and Obersaxen. Bear in mind one other camp (minimum) is also affected, the article doesn't mention where that is.

https://www.tagesanzeiger.ch/corona-...t-792864358947

Last edited by baboon; 24.07.2020 at 11:18.
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