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  #11201  
Old 27.07.2020, 13:36
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Re: Coronavirus

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Keyword in your statement is "forecast". As clearly explained in the FT article, almost all Swedish companies beat the "forecasts" so maybe, just maybe, no lockdown was actually quite good for the economy and as shown by the trend of daily deaths: quite good for the health overall too. So, the Swedes seem to have struck the right balance.
"Clearly" I cannot read the FT article as behind paywall.

The company names mentioned there are not exactly a representation of the wider economy, and beating a forecast also does not mean that they are growing. My employer surprised the market by announcing H1 results that were -10% vs last year, whereas the market had expected -25%.
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  #11202  
Old 27.07.2020, 13:37
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Re: Coronavirus

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Once again, if something doesn't fit your alarmist narrative it's a lie. Indeed, the FT is not really known for alarmism so i get your persistent dislike for facts, but you'll get there eventually!
Nothing to do with an alarmist narrative. You're saying things which simply aren't true and then back-peddling when called out on it.
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  #11203  
Old 27.07.2020, 13:39
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Re: Coronavirus

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Nothing to do with an alarmist narrative. You're saying things which simply aren't true and then back-peddling when called out on it.
Again, from the BBC
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-53498133

"Latest figures suggest Sweden is getting better at containing the virus. The number of daily reported deaths has been in single digits for much of July"

Maybe you guys fail to grasp new facts that don't reconcile with your perceived reality?
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  #11204  
Old 27.07.2020, 13:44
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Re: Coronavirus

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Yes he is happy that they finally reached the lower numbers, nothing weird about that.
Interesting. You disagree with facts, but when they are presented by the BBC suddenly you not only agree, but claim it's logical and nothing weird about it. I knew you would make it! So proud of you!
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  #11205  
Old 27.07.2020, 13:48
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Re: Coronavirus

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Let me try again: TREND IS...?
Trend is only one factor that needs to be taken into account, you canít look at trend alone.
Going from extremely high numbers to very high numbers would indicate a downward trend but itís still a pretty bad situation to be in.
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  #11206  
Old 27.07.2020, 13:50
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Re: Coronavirus

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Yes, exactly. Single digit in both countries since beginning of July. Also, doesn't the trend tell you something?
nope. Sweden is at just over 1 death per million per day.
Population 10.23m.
So over 10 deaths per day.
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  #11207  
Old 27.07.2020, 13:52
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Re: Coronavirus

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Trend is only one factor that needs to be taken into account, you canít look at trend alone.
Going from extremely high numbers to very high numbers would indicate a downward trend but itís still a pretty bad situation to be in.
Again, from the trusted by many here BBC
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-53498133

"Latest figures suggest Sweden is getting better at containing the virus. The number of daily reported deaths has been in single digits for much of July"

I understand EdwinNL has now a massive cognitive dissonance how is it possible that the BBC is not posting alarmist crap, but there you go...
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  #11208  
Old 27.07.2020, 13:53
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Re: Coronavirus

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Again, from the BBC
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-53498133

"Latest figures suggest Sweden is getting better at containing the virus. The number of daily reported deaths has been in single digits for much of July"

Maybe you guys fail to grasp new facts that don't reconcile with your perceived reality?
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Yes, exactly. Single digit in both countries since beginning of July. Also, doesn't the trend tell you something?
If you can't tell the difference between what the BBC said and what you said then there isn't much more for it.
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  #11209  
Old 27.07.2020, 13:56
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Re: Coronavirus

Again, please stick to the facts or what you think facts but do not insult people who have a different opinion.
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  #11210  
Old 27.07.2020, 13:57
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Re: Coronavirus

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If you can't tell the difference between what the BBC said and what you said then there isn't much more for it.
We're arguing semantics. Which is good. I admit to saying "since beginning of July" when in fact it's "most of July"

The key-takeaway, the health situation in Sweden seems to be very very difference from the doom that was predicted by many here and elsewhere. In hindsight, it seems to be a very good strategy that has balanced well the economy and health.

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Again, please stick to the facts or what you think facts but do not insult people who have a different opinion.
Is this what you mean?

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So either you are incredible stupid or a troll.
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  #11211  
Old 27.07.2020, 14:08
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Re: Coronavirus

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Several times over the last weeks it has been proven to you that even the Swedes disagree with your conclusion, yet you keep sticking to it.
You overestimate me. I just quoted:

Anders Tegnell, the state epidemiologist leading the strategy
"It feels good. I mean, finally, we are where we hoped we would be much earlier on,"


Helena Nordenstedt
Clinical epidemiologist and researcher in global health:

"The strategy was to flatten the curve, not overwhelm health care capacity. That seems to have worked. If you take care homes out of the equation, things actually look much brighter"

both quotes from here:
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-53498133

So maybe, the EdwinNL consensus on Sweden is different from the Swedish experts consensus on Sweden It's ok, it's called cognitive dissonance and is not easy to manage, but you'll get there, i have faith in you!
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  #11212  
Old 27.07.2020, 14:14
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Re: Coronavirus

<Mod hat on>

Enough already. Any more of this tit for tat not-quite-insulting will be viewed as aggressive and inflammatory and dealt with accordingly. Please feel free to report any such posts rather than replying to them in kind.

Repeating the same points over and over, whether they be true or not, is not helpful. Nor is accusing someone of trolling because you think they're wrong.

And we've said it enough times already, but the moderators are not here to arbitrate on what's correct or not, so don't expect us to jump in just because you say that someone's saying something wrong - we frankly don't have the time, the inclination nor the ability to trawl through all the available data and establish what is "true" and what is not.

<\MHO>
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  #11213  
Old 27.07.2020, 14:16
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Re: Coronavirus

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Again, from the trusted by many here BBC
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-53498133

"Latest figures suggest Sweden is getting better at containing the virus. The number of daily reported deaths has been in single digits for much of July"

I understand EdwinNL has now a massive cognitive dissonance how is it possible that the BBC is not posting alarmist crap, but there you go...
Given that Sweden now has a not dissimilar set of measures to Switzerland (less on facemasks but stricter on large gatherings - the latter seems to be the current main infection route here), don't you find it interesting that Sweden STILL has significantly more infections and more deaths than Switzerland?
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  #11214  
Old 27.07.2020, 14:19
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Re: Coronavirus

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The key-takeaway, the health situation in Sweden seems to be very very difference from the doom that was predicted by many here and elsewhere. In hindsight, it seems to be a very good strategy that has balanced well the economy and health.
Death per capita totals in Sweden still 5x that of Germany and 2.5x that of Switzerland. This may be less gloomy than predicted, but still significant.

GDP numbers so far do not show that SWE does considerably better than other countries. From you BBC article: "Despite this, various forecasts predict the Swedish economy will still shrink by about 5% this year. That's less than other countries hit hard by Covid-19 such as Italy, Spain and the UK, but still similar to the rest of Scandinavia. Sweden's unemployment rate of 9% remains the highest in the Nordics, up from 7.1% in March."

All in all, it feels to me that while the "Swedish approach" may look very different from the (soft) lockdowns we have seen in other countries, in the results it is questionable how much better their economy really is.

Last edited by komsomolez; 27.07.2020 at 14:34.
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  #11215  
Old 27.07.2020, 14:21
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Re: Coronavirus

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Given that Sweden now has a not dissimilar set of measures to Switzerland (less on facemasks but stricter on large gatherings - the latter seems to be the current main infection route here), don't you find it interesting that Sweden STILL has significantly more infections and more deaths than Switzerland?
I actually don't know what measures they've recently introduced (do you have a link?). But this would certainly be interesting to assess. Given the fact that death is a lagging indicator, the number of infections is probably a better proxy to assess effectiveness of measures.
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  #11216  
Old 27.07.2020, 14:42
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Re: Coronavirus

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So what you are saying is that the moderators don't care if people keep on posting the biggest disruptive pile of proven to be shit and lies making a normal topic impossible as long as they do it in a polite way..

Yeah, that is a great way to bring your forum on its knees.
Erhem! You forgot to call the mods stupid trolling donkeys...
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  #11217  
Old 27.07.2020, 14:50
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Re: Coronavirus

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Again, from the trusted by many here BBC
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-53498133

"Latest figures suggest Sweden is getting better at containing the virus. The number of daily reported deaths has been in single digits for much of July"
What does that have to do with my comment?

I said trend is not the only thing to consider and that meant in general not specifically in relation to Sweden, I never said anything about the number of deaths in Sweden so why are you reposting that in response?

Do you always just focus on one thing?
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  #11218  
Old 27.07.2020, 14:53
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Re: Coronavirus

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Do you always just focus on one thing?
Typical male, yes.
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  #11219  
Old 27.07.2020, 15:31
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Re: Coronavirus

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Typical male, yes.
Awww.

Back to CV - not sure if that got posted but local press published a local study (Uni Bern) saying earlier confinement could have saved 1600 lives (in "24 heures" yesterday).
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  #11220  
Old 27.07.2020, 15:34
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Re: Coronavirus

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Awww.

Back to CV - not sure if that got posted but local press published a local study (Uni Bern) saying earlier confinement could have saved 1600 lives (in "24 heures" yesterday).
Can you please post this? It's weird, as the total number of deaths in CH is 1700
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