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Old 06.08.2020, 13:38
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Re: Coronavirus

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We do indeed focus on the long term effects of cancer treatment and survival. Iíve been treated for cancer. Survivorship, as they call it is an important issue, and an important part of my ongoing care.
We all got stories, and I can assure from my experience that there is A LOT of ignorance about the effects of surviving cancer.

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I'm horrified how this is allowed to go on the way it does, how no one is being held responsible, how information is so clearly skewed, how data is chronically manipulated, how no dialogue is sought, how no collaboration is created, how no one has the backbone to finally push back, how apathetic the world has become to literally not give a damn about being coerced into compliance for something that is of no threat to them.
This is one of the most concerning aspects in the control of the spread (mis)information on Coronavirus. The facts have completely gone out of the window! The only thing that matters is the narrative.

People are given immediate bans from social media platforms like Facebook, YouTube and Twitter for saying anything regarding the benefits of Hydroxychloroquine/Zinc treatment. There have been medical studies that say that this isn't an effective treatment, likewise there are medical studies that say it has. Certainly enough evidence to keep the debate open.

https://c19study.com/

Compare this to the medical evidence for the effectiveness of masks, certainly multiple use loose fitting masks and cloth masks that people wear on public transport. If one looks there is very little medical evidence that these are an effective measure against the spread of any virus let alone this virus. Yet advice telling people to wear masks are given a free pass by Social Media, the hypocrisy is appalling!
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  #11342  
Old 06.08.2020, 13:50
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Re: Coronavirus

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Off the top of my head:

15000 jobs going at Renault
15000 jobs going at Airbus
5000 jobs going at Swissport
4000 jobs going at MAN
22000 jobs going at Lufthansa
1500 jobs going at MTU
2000 jobs going at Schindler
10000 jobs going at BP
500 jobs going at SR Technics

And this is just the tip of the iceberg! We're heading for double digit unemployment across much of the world! Try delivering an Airbus or a Car directly in person the "establishment" of having a job and getting paid for it is a good thing!
All those companies are downsizing for survival. When there are too many idle planes, trucks and cars, making more of them is not a good thing. Just offer and demand as last time on 2008-2009.

That crisis wasn't long ago. Even I remember it, took a lower salary while it lasted and sometimes enjoyed additional income from side gigs. We had like 100+ months to prepare for the next one. Why panic?
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Old 06.08.2020, 14:11
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Re: Coronavirus

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We all got stories, and I can assure from my experience that there is A LOT of ignorance about the effects of surviving cancer.


Compare this to the medical evidence for the effectiveness of masks, certainly multiple use loose fitting masks and cloth masks that people wear on public transport. If one looks there is very little medical evidence that these are an effective measure against the spread of any virus let alone this virus. Yet advice telling people to wear masks are given a free pass by Social Media, the hypocrisy is appalling!
Seems to me you operate on your initial impressions only. There is quite a bit of new information ranging from survival of chronic disease, the dynamics of Covid spread, efficacy of masks, and long term effects.

Are you seriously giving hcq studies credence? Lots of flaws in that work. Oy vey!

But I know it’s important to count the beans. I’ll stop beating the dead horse though.
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  #11344  
Old 06.08.2020, 14:24
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Re: Coronavirus

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We all got stories, and I can assure from my experience that there is A LOT of ignorance about the effects of surviving cancer.

This is one of the most concerning aspects in the control of the spread (mis)information on Coronavirus. The facts have completely gone out of the window! The only thing that matters is the narrative.

People are given immediate bans from social media platforms like Facebook, YouTube and Twitter for saying anything regarding the benefits of Hydroxychloroquine/Zinc treatment. There have been medical studies that say that this isn't an effective treatment, likewise there are medical studies that say it has. Certainly enough evidence to keep the debate open.

https://c19study.com/

Compare this to the medical evidence for the effectiveness of masks, certainly multiple use loose fitting masks and cloth masks that people wear on public transport. If one looks there is very little medical evidence that these are an effective measure against the spread of any virus let alone this virus. Yet advice telling people to wear masks are given a free pass by Social Media, the hypocrisy is appalling!
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  #11345  
Old 06.08.2020, 14:27
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Re: Coronavirus

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All those companies are downsizing for survival. When there are too many idle planes, trucks and cars, making more of them is not a good thing. Just offer and demand as last time on 2008-2009.

That crisis wasn't long ago. Even I remember it, took a lower salary while it lasted and sometimes enjoyed additional income from side gigs. We had like 100+ months to prepare for the next one. Why panic?
You can prepare all you want but there is no way for my top notch captain pilot friend to get re-hired any time soon anywhere and he's the best. I think if air travel/transport industry folks just heard the "Why panic?" question, they would just explode
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Old 06.08.2020, 14:31
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Re: Coronavirus

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You can prepare all you want but there is no way for my top notch captain pilot friend to get re-hired any time soon anywhere and he's the best. I think if air travel/transport industry folks just heard the "Why panic?" question, they would just explode
Your friend's loss is the environment's gain at least. One of the few positives to come out of all of this.
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  #11347  
Old 06.08.2020, 14:42
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Re: Coronavirus

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Your friend's loss is the environment's gain at least. One of the few positives to come out of all of this.
What is this argument worth when one could use it in case of absolutely any activity whatsover, starting brushing one's teeth...

Your environmental satisfaction will not pay people's bills.

People talk of Covid impact on the economy as if it was a future thing. It painfully isn't.

If there is anything that has a potential to influence the environment, it is the economy being strong and able to compromise. Because any plea to the society to be less consuming isn't working. I saw ads in the UK asking people to "spend more, save the econony". That is far from any environmental concerns. The fresh job seekers I am sure feel the same.
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Old 06.08.2020, 14:44
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Re: Coronavirus

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Your friend's loss is the environment's gain at least. One of the few positives to come out of all of this.
Sure. So where do all the disposable for-healthy-people-utterly-pointless masks, single-use plastic utilities etc. end up? Ah yeah, right...

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What is this argument worth when one could use it in case of absolutely any activity whatsover, starting brushing one's teeth...

Your environmental satisfaction will not pay people's bills.

People talk of Covid impact on the economy as if it was a future thing. It painfully isn't.

If there is anything that has a potential to influence the environment, it is the economy being strong and able to compromise. Because any plea to the society to be less consuming isn't working. I saw ads in the UK asking people to "spend more, save the econony". That is far from any environmental concerns. The fresh job seekers I am sure feel the same.
Don't even try. The most basic economic understanding seems to have gone out the window ca. March 15. As we learned early on, "the state" can just pay and worst case "the state" can just print some more money (Zimbabwe called to talk about their experience, it went very well). Easy-peasy.
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  #11349  
Old 06.08.2020, 14:44
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Re: Coronavirus

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Your friend's loss is the environment's gain at least. One of the few positives to come out of all of this.
Greta, is that you?
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  #11350  
Old 06.08.2020, 15:01
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Re: Coronavirus

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You can prepare all you want but there is no way for my top notch captain pilot friend to get re-hired any time soon anywhere and he's the best. I think if air travel/transport industry folks just heard the "Why panic?" question, they would just explode
I'd guess pilots are covered by social insurance in developed economies, or earn above average in emerging economies and may save personally for a rainy day. I'm surprised a pilot can't get a job in the medium term. If pilot's skills are less transferable than most of us working far from home, I've been living in ignorance.

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Your friend's loss is the environment's gain at least. One of the few positives to come out of all of this.
People out of work is not exactly positive outcome, at most neutral. But airlines retiring fuel hungry planes (B747s) and keeping the most efficient ones (A350s) is really good.

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Old 06.08.2020, 15:08
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Re: Coronavirus

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Mortality is easy to focus on as it's easily measurable, we don't after all focus on the long term effects of Cancer survival.
Focus on it maybe not but there are an awful lot of studies and research being carried out on the long term effects of cancer survival and treatment.

In any case youíre comparing apples with oranges. COVID is an infectious disease the spread of which can be controlled, cancer isnít.
If we can prevent people from catching COVID and suffering potentially long term consequences then thatís what we should do.

Having said that there are still an awful lot of unknowns with regards to COVID so there are bound to be things done which with the benefit of hindsight could have been done differently. We have to wait and see how things pan out over the next few months.
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  #11352  
Old 06.08.2020, 15:10
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Re: Coronavirus

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Sure. So where do all the disposable for-healthy-people-utterly-pointless masks, single-use plastic utilities etc. end up? Ah yeah, right...



Don't even try. The most basic economic understanding seems to have gone out the window ca. March 15.
Why is that? I really wonder, because there is enough TP and Netflix is endless? There are more food delivery opportunities than before?

March 17 was already too late to start rethinking one's indispensibility at work. Seriously.

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As we learned early on, "the state" can just pay and worst case "the state" can just print some more money (Zimbabwe called to talk about their experience, it went very well). Easy-peasy.
There is certain Swiss hyperboly that resonates with mine

State taking care of something is always a loan, be it in form of finances or one's professional reputation. It gives space to those who can. Accountability.

As I said, there is new order being created...actually quite a few months ago. Those who are told to sit comfortably and wait should think twice.
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Old 06.08.2020, 15:22
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Re: Coronavirus

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Your environmental satisfaction will not pay people's bills.
It will in the long term, many times over. I understand the people wanting to live for the now, but I find it more important to leave my children a habitable planet than make a few billionaires a little bit richer.

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Sure. So where do all the disposable for-healthy-people-utterly-pointless masks, single-use plastic utilities etc. end up? Ah yeah, right....
They probably end up on some massive bonfire, along with your strawman.
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Old 06.08.2020, 15:31
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Re: Coronavirus

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It will in the long term, many times over. I understand the people wanting to live for the now, but I find it more important to leave my children a habitable planet than make a few billionaires a little bit richer.
It is a luxury to think about the future when you just been laid off.

Contrary to you, I think there is zero positive side of bunkrupcy and growing national deficit. So it is very improbable that we will see another lockdown.
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Old 06.08.2020, 15:38
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Re: Coronavirus

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I'd guess pilots are covered by social insurance in developed economies, or earn above average in emerging economies and may save personally for a rainy day. I'm surprised a pilot can't get a job in the medium term.
Social benefits will kill your CV, as anybody's. Any captain cannot get anything medium term now anywhere. He is resourceful plus has a licensing school but his heart is in the clouds All airtravel is now pretty much doomed.
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Old 06.08.2020, 15:46
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It is a luxury to think about the future when you just been laid off.

Contrary to you, I think there is zero positive side of bunkrupcy and growing national deficit. So it is very improbable that we will see another lockdown.
Given that the future could be massively improved with a large investment in future energy resources, which would in turn create millions of jobs - maybe people should see this as the opportunity it is.

The old way of doing things was working for a small proportion of people and the advent of automation looked likely to make that even worse for the general population.

This crisis has shown what is really important, and I think increasingly, people are realising that propping up big business at the expense of people's lives, is probably a bad thing.

Bankruptcy isn't that bad anyway - do it enough times and you might even become president
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Old 06.08.2020, 15:57
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Re: Coronavirus

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Bankruptcy isn't that bad anyway - do it enough times and you might even become president
His string of beautiful women would indicate that bunkrupcy didn’t do him any harm either.

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  #11358  
Old 06.08.2020, 15:57
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Re: Coronavirus

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Seems to me you operate on your initial impressions only. There is quite a bit of new information ranging from survival of chronic disease, the dynamics of Covid spread, efficacy of masks, and long term effects.

Are you seriously giving hcq studies credence? Lots of flaws in that work. Oy vey!

But I know itís important to count the beans. Iíll stop beating the dead horse though.
No my friend, I operate by taking the EVIDENCE available and making up my own opinion, otherwise known as critical thinking. That you so blithely dismiss the Hydroxychloroquine studies and accept the efficacy of masks seems to me that you're happy to accept any narrative spun to you by the media and/or politicians.
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Old 06.08.2020, 16:01
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Re: Coronavirus

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That you so blithely dismiss the Hydroxychloroquine studies and accept the efficacy of masks seems to me that you're happy to accept any narrative spun to you by the media and/or politicians.
I'd take the HCQ if it was offered.
This study is very recent.
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Old 06.08.2020, 16:02
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No my friend, I operate by taking the EVIDENCE available and making up my own opinion
Sure you do, Champ.
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