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Old 20.08.2020, 17:42
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Re: Coronavirus

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Lockdown causes more damage than corona virus, this is the reality unfortunately.
I think that depends on how you measure "damage." Personally, I consider people dying and/or fighting for their lives on a ventilator in a hospital room to be worse than impacts the lockdown has upon the economy. But clearly some people don't think that other people's lives are that valuable.
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  #11842  
Old 20.08.2020, 18:06
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Re: Coronavirus

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I think that depends on how you measure "damage." Personally, I consider people dying and/or fighting for their lives on a ventilator in a hospital room to be worse than impacts the lockdown has upon the economy. But clearly some people don't think that other people's lives are that valuable.
It isn't just a case about the economy. Restricted medical care might not show now but in the coming time we will see an increase of victims who didn't have access to health care while hospitals were transformed into corona virus tents. There have been tens of thousands of unnecessary victims in third world countries due to the restrictions in the world. Just because you saw mostly 80+ olds on respirators doesn't mean that there are victims from corona that you can not see at the moment or the media isn't presenting them.

In the meantime thousands and thoussandt of preventable deaths are happening due to the nonsensical restrictions imposed by corona virus.

UNICEF: 6,000 children could die every day due to impact of coronavirus

UNICEF: An additional 6.7 million children under 5 could suffer from wasting this year due to COVID-19

https://www.unicef.org/press-release...r-due-covid-19

These are the real corona victims
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Old 20.08.2020, 18:09
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Re: Coronavirus

You also virtue signalling? LOL!
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Old 20.08.2020, 18:15
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Re: Coronavirus

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I think that depends on how you measure "damage." Personally, I consider people dying and/or fighting for their lives on a ventilator in a hospital room to be worse than impacts the lockdown has upon the economy. But clearly some people don't think that other people's lives are that valuable.
So people in your own country that are infected by a virus are so valuable that you lockdown an economy, but at the same time we keep our eyes closed for people dying in wars, starvation, slavery or poverty because they are out of sight and we don't really seem to care.
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Old 20.08.2020, 18:23
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Re: Coronavirus

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It isn't just a case about the economy. Restricted medical care might not show now but in the coming time we will see an increase of victims who didn't have access to health care while hospitals were transformed into corona virus tents. There have been tens of thousands of unnecessary victims in third world countries due to the restrictions in the world. Just because you saw mostly 80+ olds on respirators doesn't mean that there are victims from corona that you can not see at the moment or the media isn't presenting them.

In the meantime thousands and thoussandt of preventable deaths are happening due to the nonsensical restrictions imposed by corona virus.

UNICEF: 6,000 children could die every day due to impact of coronavirus

UNICEF: An additional 6.7 million children under 5 could suffer from wasting this year due to COVID-19

https://www.unicef.org/press-release...r-due-covid-19

These are the real corona victims
Well, what I think has become quite obvious is that governments need to be prepared to step in and help their people, financially, in situations like this. An article such as this can say that X amount of children or people could die due to a lockdown, yet how many people would have died if there wasn't a lockdown and we just let the virus completely run its course, un-checked?

I think that child starvation is a problem that ALL governments should be addressing and that no decent government would allow that to be happening in the first place. As a species, I think that our priorities have become really messed up.
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Old 20.08.2020, 18:24
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Re: Coronavirus

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So people in your own country that are infected by a virus are so valuable that you lockdown an economy, but at the same time we keep our eyes closed for people dying in wars, starvation, slavery or poverty because they are out of sight and we don't really seem to care.
As I had just written above, in my other comment, I think that as a species, our priorities have become really messed up. Greed rules. Clearly empathy does not.
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  #11847  
Old 20.08.2020, 18:39
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Re: Coronavirus

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So people in your own country that are infected by a virus are so valuable that you lockdown an economy, but at the same time we keep our eyes closed for people dying in wars, starvation, slavery or poverty because they are out of sight and we don't really seem to care.
World-wide this is the issue.
Rich countries can afford restrictive lockdowns to save lives.
Poor countries are caught in a catch-22 situation, whatever they do is going to cause suffering. If they were fragile before the pandemic, they are doubly so now.
What corona has done:
highlight how broken the USA is
highlight how populist politics as in the UK are totally unsuited to dealing with pandemics - competence is an asset, not something to be derided.
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  #11848  
Old 20.08.2020, 18:45
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Re: Coronavirus

I now know several people who've had/have Covid-19, and who have not died, and don't look likely to die from it.

Some, even after some months, look like walking-talking exhaustion itself, dragging their feet and struggling to remember what they're supposed to be doing, because everything is too much effort and there's not enough air, there's not enough air.

One, however, told me that he believed that he was able to recover fully or nearly fully, precisely because of lockdown.

He reasoned that first of all he had no pressure to be at work or at any other personal appointment or social gathering, nor to explain his absence, so he could get on with trying to sleep, to recover. Second, he was already installed up-to-date with supplies at home, with the children in their roles learning at home (not going back to school yet, where he lives) with greatly increased ability to do something by themselves. He also didn't have to get his children to school. All of that would not have been so well set up, he said, had lockdown not been imposed. Third, when friends brought fresh food and medication to the doorstep, those friends had needed to interact with far fewer people on the way, so he could call on their help for such errands more easily than had there been no lockdown.

He said that although the illness itself was terrible, and like nothing he'd ever experienced before, the circumstances of lockdown prevented his infecting others, and most likely facilitated his recovery.
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  #11849  
Old 20.08.2020, 18:49
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Re: Coronavirus

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So people in your own country that are infected by a virus are so valuable that you lockdown an economy, but at the same time we keep our eyes closed for people dying in wars, starvation, slavery or poverty because they are out of sight and we don't really seem to care.
Are you saying that we should invade the U.S.A. and overthrow the government?
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  #11850  
Old 20.08.2020, 18:59
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Re: Coronavirus

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Go on finish the thought, we are almost there

....I'd see the connections and then ....
then you would put together a much more inclusive concept of the big picture. I don't need people to agree with me, but ignorant, cherry-picking, tunnel vision disagreement just for the sake of disagreeing doesn't make you smart. Refusing to see connections in things that are obviously interdependent, just so you don't have to take responsibility for your actions doesn't make you right.
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Old 20.08.2020, 19:05
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Re: Coronavirus

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World-wide this is the issue.
Rich countries can afford restrictive lockdowns to save lives.
Poor countries are caught in a catch-22 situation, whatever they do is going to cause suffering. If they were fragile before the pandemic, they are doubly so now.
What corona has done:
highlight how broken the USA is
highlight how populist politics as in the UK are totally unsuited to dealing with pandemics - competence is an asset, not something to be derided.
Not sure if I disagree, but what makes a country "rich"? The USA is one of the wealthiest countries in the world. It could certainly afford a lockdown if the government were honest and gave a shit about the people. They act like they're poor. Poor SE Asian countries on the other hand, acted quickly and got back to work quickly, and are prepared to do so again.
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  #11852  
Old 20.08.2020, 19:23
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Re: Coronavirus

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Are you saying that we should invade the U.S.A. and overthrow the government?
Nah, we should keep over favorite reality show.
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  #11853  
Old 20.08.2020, 19:43
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Re: Coronavirus

Don't know if this has been mentioned already, but Scotland just added Switzerland to their quarantine list from 4am on Saturday https://www.gov.scot/publications/co...es/exemptions/

Last edited by Island Monkey; 20.08.2020 at 19:45. Reason: Annoying typo
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  #11854  
Old 20.08.2020, 20:09
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Re: Coronavirus

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Don't know if this has been mentioned already, but Scotland just added Switzerland to their quarantine list from 4am on Saturday https://www.gov.scot/publications/co...es/exemptions/
Yeah, just seen it on the Beeb's website:

"UK tourists will no longer need to quarantine after holidaying in Portugal, but travellers returning from Croatia will now have to self-isolate.

Transport Secretary Grant Shapps said people will need to self-isolate for 14 days on return from Croatia, Austria and Trinidad and Tobago.

The changes apply to anyone arriving after 04:00 BST on Saturday.

Meanwhile, the Scottish government has added Switzerland to the lists of countries on its quarantine list."

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-53854948
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Old 21.08.2020, 00:37
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Re: Coronavirus

The percentage of deaths from COVID-19 patients hospitalised is reducing, good news.

It is not clear why!
Some factors are more young people are infected who recover better, more testing is finding more people at earlier stages of the disease and management of sick patients is improving. Even simpler methods like proning (where patients lie on their stomachs) have a positive effect.
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  #11856  
Old 21.08.2020, 07:20
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Re: Coronavirus

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For those interested in school reopening, it is not going so well in some parts of the US.
Yeah, its a real shit show right now- because people have been fueled by fear due to the media.

Purdue families – the following message was sent today to Purdue students who are taking courses on campus this fall. While we know that some of you may have students who have opted for the fully-online fall option, we wanted to pass it along so you are in the know.

Parent & Family Connections
DEAN OF STUDENTS LETTER FALL 2020
August 19, 2020

Dear Boilermakers,

Welcome to the fall 2020 semester! Whether new to Purdue or a returning student, we are so excited to have you here and celebrate your long-awaited arrival. Campus, simply put, has not been the same without you.

Many have made the decision to participate in the residential campus experience this fall, likely a hard decision for some. You consciously and deliberately committed to the Protect Purdue Pledge and agreed to “Protect Myself. Protect Others. Protect Purdue.” Hard and difficult decisions have also been made by our State, County, and City of West Lafayette. Each of these decisions has been made to ensure and sustain the safest environment possible for you to be able to advance your educational efforts here at Purdue.

Several colleges and universities started the semester with in person courses, yet within days of opening were forced to remote-only delivery due to surges in COVID-19 cases. Upon further inspection, each of these failed attempts and increase cases have been attributed to ‘clusters’ of students who contracted the virus as a result of attending a campus party; crowded parties with significant numbers of attendees where no facial coverings, no social distancing, and no safety precaution of any kind were considered. I am sure the decision to abandon a residential semester, send students home, and go to on-line only instruction is incredibly sad and disappointing for all involved.

Clearly, we are all social beings and desire to be among one another. Hosting or attending a party, however, can have major unintended consequences in our unified disease prevention efforts and desire to keep the campus open. While risk is not binary and cannot entirely be eliminated it can be managed. We must all do our part to protect Purdue and each other: avoid large gatherings, wear face coverings, social distance, follow directional signage, monitor and implement personal health safety protocols, to name a few.

I, and the entire University community, are counting on each of you to do your part to reduce the spread of the virus and ultimately keep us open this fall. Who we are as a community matters. How we treat one another matters. How we live and socialize matters. And, how seriously we embrace our individual and collective health responsibilities matters. Please know that we will be taking a hard line on conduct for those engaging in events and activities that run counter to our Protect Purdue commitments. Plainly stated, hosting or attending gatherings and parties where social distancing is not possible and masks are not worn represent violations of the Protect Purdue Pledge; if you don’t abide by rules, there is no place for you here. See the Student Conduct Regulations here.

I remain confident that come mid-November when - as planned - you leave campus to complete the rest of the semester remotely, we will collectively celebrate our commitments to the Protect Purdue Plan and the successes it enabled us to achieve. Of course, this achievement will not just magically occur. To remain on campus until Thanksgiving break will require each of us, all of the time, 24/7 to be aware of and honor our personal role and responsibility to protect myself, protect others, and protect Purdue. We are all in this together! I challenge each and every one of you to manage your risk. To plan, support, and engage in lower-risk behaviors that meet your need to be social. We can do this and we must do this if we desire a different result for Purdue University.

Boiler Up! Hammer Down! Hail Purdue!

Sincerely, Katherine L. Sermersheim
Associate Vice Provost and Dean of Students




But SO WHAT! I hope my kid gets it! When he comes home at T-Giving, he'll quarantine for 14 days and Bob's your uncle!

My 2 boys have the lowest probability of fatality due to C-19. They are more likely to do something stupid at a party or when crossing a street. I can't protect them form either so i'm not going to worry.

I have had brothers and sisters die in plane crashes, cancer, jungle pneumonia and natural causes.

C-19 ain't shit.

I feel sorry for all of you living in fear.
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  #11857  
Old 21.08.2020, 07:25
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Re: Coronavirus

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"So much for the benefits of a lockdown?" Would you really rather prefer that thousands of more people had died?
Yes. The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. F your individualism.
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Old 21.08.2020, 08:29
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Re: Coronavirus

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Not sure if I disagree, but what makes a country "rich"?
Good question but I'm reluctant to try answering this one here.
Certainly not only the stashes of gold in banks.


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Meanwhile, the Scottish government has added Switzerland to the lists of countries on its quarantine list."

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-53854948
WTF.
Uber-prudent...?

In a way I'm glad because people won't be tempted to travel without a good reason, but still....who else has put us on their red zones list?
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Old 21.08.2020, 08:42
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Re: Coronavirus

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Yes. The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. F your individualism.
We’re definitely heading in this direction as we’re learning to live with the virus.
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  #11860  
Old 21.08.2020, 08:59
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Re: Coronavirus

We sort of have to. Even though many of us are still allowed to work from home and visit their offices only once in a while, our kids go to school, our friends/acquaintances might not be that lucky as to afford working from home etc etc However, taking unnecessary risks and not complying with the official recommendations is inexcusable.
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