Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Living in Switzerland > Daily life  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11941  
Old 24.08.2020, 19:11
fatmanfilms's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Verbier
Posts: 21,378
Groaned at 461 Times in 352 Posts
Thanked 23,091 Times in 11,824 Posts
fatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
- median age of people who died was 86 (women) and 83 (men)
Life expectance of men in CH is 81.7 for women 85.5 so they lived longer than average. Does not seem anything to be too worried about.
Reply With Quote
The following 5 users would like to thank fatmanfilms for this useful post:
  #11942  
Old 24.08.2020, 19:41
Pancakes's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Zurich-ish
Posts: 4,933
Groaned at 275 Times in 195 Posts
Thanked 10,152 Times in 3,832 Posts
Pancakes has a reputation beyond reputePancakes has a reputation beyond reputePancakes has a reputation beyond reputePancakes has a reputation beyond reputePancakes has a reputation beyond reputePancakes has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
Summary from BAG's epidemiological status assessment dated 19 August:
- 97% (!) of all deaths occurred in people with at least one pre-condition
- 85% of all hospitalizations occurred in people with at least one pre-condition
- median age of people who died was 86 (women) and 83 (men)
- median age of hospitalizations so far was 73 (women) and 69 (men)
- even "cases", meaning positive infections, showed a median age of 48 (women) and 50 (men)

Yes. This certainly is a totally reasonable foundation to continue to restrict freedoms of all 8.6m people in whatever shape or form.

Now bring on the groans given some still don't want to believe any of it, even if you throw actually proof at them from official sources.

https://www.bag.admin.ch/bag/en/home...rnational.html
So you think that we should have just let the virus spread un-checked and let people die and slowly suffocate because they have a preexisting condition?

"The true measure of any society can be found in how it treats its most vulnerable members" -- Mahatma Gandhi

Quote:
View Post
Life expectance of men in CH is 81.7 for women 85.5 so they lived longer than average. Does not seem anything to be too worried about.
Do you really think that someone deserves to slowly suffocate to death simply because they're a certain age?
Reply With Quote
The following 7 users would like to thank Pancakes for this useful post:
  #11943  
Old 24.08.2020, 19:53
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Geneva
Posts: 647
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 709 Times in 306 Posts
MajorGrubert has an excellent reputationMajorGrubert has an excellent reputationMajorGrubert has an excellent reputationMajorGrubert has an excellent reputation
Re: Coronavirus

Are we in the world of Logan's Run yet?
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank MajorGrubert for this useful post:
  #11944  
Old 24.08.2020, 21:07
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 8,496
Groaned at 299 Times in 228 Posts
Thanked 19,533 Times in 6,802 Posts
k_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
So you think that we should have just let the virus spread un-checked and let people die and slowly suffocate because they have a preexisting condition?

That's an absurd statement.
Reply With Quote
The following 6 users would like to thank k_and_e for this useful post:
  #11945  
Old 24.08.2020, 21:12
MusicChick's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: La Cote
Posts: 17,488
Groaned at 414 Times in 275 Posts
Thanked 20,428 Times in 10,577 Posts
MusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
That's an absurd statement.
It might be a tiny bit less absurd if we accomodate for the same sentiment regarding all health threats that exist.

Which we don't.
Reply With Quote
The following 7 users would like to thank MusicChick for this useful post:
The following 5 users groan at MusicChick for this post:
  #11946  
Old 24.08.2020, 22:33
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
Life expectance of men in CH is 81.7 for women 85.5 so they lived longer than average. Does not seem anything to be too worried about.
Life expectancy at age 83 to 86 is 7 to 8 years. That is what the virus has cost them.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank for this useful post:
  #11947  
Old 25.08.2020, 01:09
Blueangel's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Küsnacht, Switzerland
Posts: 4,112
Groaned at 122 Times in 106 Posts
Thanked 11,014 Times in 4,834 Posts
Blueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
Life expectance of men in CH is 81.7 for women 85.5 so they lived longer than average. Does not seem anything to be too worried about.
Funny how actual experience blows the perception of median and averages out of the water. I only know 3 people who've died from covid. They were 53, 60 and 61. My partner's 58yr old cousin was finally discharged from hospital on Saturday after a month. She's been given an oxygen machine that she needs to use several times a day during her home recovery stage. She's a tall, slim, active business owner with no previous underlying health conditions, and from a family where most of the women live well into their 80s and 90s.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank Blueangel for this useful post:
  #11948  
Old 25.08.2020, 01:52
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
Life expectance of men in CH is 81.7 for women 85.5 so they lived longer than average. Does not seem anything to be too worried about.
I don't think you understand the difference between medians and means (or averages). Samaire13 quoted the median age of the men and women who have died from COVID-19. We know the disease kills disproportionately more older people than younger. Most of the deaths would have been in that "older people" segment, hence the median being where it is.

The life expectancy figures are means and apply to children born around the present time (depending where the figures came from). As baboon points out, men aged 81.7 in 2020 could expect to live to around 89, and women aged 85.5 today, to about 93. So yes, it's a big deal. A lot of time stolen from them, but also from their children and grandchildren. Not everything is about numbers and economics.
Reply With Quote
The following 10 users would like to thank for this useful post:
  #11949  
Old 25.08.2020, 09:43
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: Frick, Aargau
Posts: 2,876
Groaned at 63 Times in 51 Posts
Thanked 4,070 Times in 1,901 Posts
HickvonFrick has a reputation beyond reputeHickvonFrick has a reputation beyond reputeHickvonFrick has a reputation beyond reputeHickvonFrick has a reputation beyond reputeHickvonFrick has a reputation beyond reputeHickvonFrick has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
I don't think you understand the difference between medians and means (or averages). Samaire13 quoted the median age of the men and women who have died from COVID-19. We know the disease kills disproportionately more older people than younger. Most of the deaths would have been in that "older people" segment, hence the median being where it is.

The life expectancy figures are means and apply to children born around the present time (depending where the figures came from). As baboon points out, men aged 81.7 in 2020 could expect to live to around 89, and women aged 85.5 today, to about 93. So yes, it's a big deal. A lot of time stolen from them, but also from their children and grandchildren. Not everything is about numbers and economics.
It's probably fair to assume that those in their 80s who didn't survive were in worse health that those who did though.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank HickvonFrick for this useful post:
  #11950  
Old 25.08.2020, 09:54
fatmanfilms's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Verbier
Posts: 21,378
Groaned at 461 Times in 352 Posts
Thanked 23,091 Times in 11,824 Posts
fatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
It's probably fair to assume that those in their 80s who didn't survive were in worse health that those who did though.
UK deaths have been lower than average for 8 weeks now, many who died would have died of something else by now.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank fatmanfilms for this useful post:
  #11951  
Old 25.08.2020, 11:24
Axa's Avatar
Axa Axa is offline
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Suhr, Aargau
Posts: 3,457
Groaned at 40 Times in 40 Posts
Thanked 4,638 Times in 2,139 Posts
Axa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

There's an interesting opinion piece at BBG, the overall mortality rate on 2020 is approaching to the 1918 influenza in NYC....and there's still 4 colder months to go https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/ar...o-top-1918-flu



Another interesting part is that the 1918 influenza and covid19 are nothing compared to cholera epidemics. People looking at numbers say don't worry, is there something else? I think so. It's important to remember the narrative of the last century. "We" have defeated infectious diseases, all we have to worry is about cancer and Alzheimer. Infectious diseases are only endemic to places with poor sanitation, epidemic of infectious diseases only happens to people without toilets, not to "us". Even if the covid19 looks small in comparison to any 19th century cholera epidemic, it kills the narrative of the defeat of infectious diseases in the developed world. It's not the magnitude of the mortality rate what matters but the incertitude left after the triumph narrative is crushed down by reality. At least I hope this helps to raise awareness on antibiotic resistance issue.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Axa for this useful post:
  #11952  
Old 25.08.2020, 12:02
fatmanfilms's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Verbier
Posts: 21,378
Groaned at 461 Times in 352 Posts
Thanked 23,091 Times in 11,824 Posts
fatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
There's an interesting opinion piece at BBG, the overall mortality rate on 2020 is approaching to the 1918 influenza in NYC....and there's still 4 colder months to go https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/ar...o-top-1918-flu



Another interesting part is that the 1918 influenza and covid19 are nothing compared to cholera epidemics. People looking at numbers say don't worry, is there something else? I think so. It's important to remember the narrative of the last century. "We" have defeated infectious diseases, all we have to worry is about cancer and Alzheimer. Infectious diseases are only endemic to places with poor sanitation, epidemic of infectious diseases only happens to people without toilets, not to "us". Even if the covid19 looks small in comparison to any 19th century cholera epidemic, it kills the narrative of the defeat of infectious diseases in the developed world. It's not the magnitude of the mortality rate what matters but the incertitude left after the triumph narrative is crushed down by reality. At least I hope this helps to raise awareness on antibiotic resistance issue.
Looks more like the level of Hong Kong flu from 1968
Reply With Quote
  #11953  
Old 26.08.2020, 04:45
VFR on top's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Used to be Basel.
Posts: 1,125
Groaned at 34 Times in 24 Posts
Thanked 2,488 Times in 925 Posts
VFR on top has a reputation beyond reputeVFR on top has a reputation beyond reputeVFR on top has a reputation beyond reputeVFR on top has a reputation beyond reputeVFR on top has a reputation beyond reputeVFR on top has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
So you think that we should have just let the virus spread un-checked and let people die and slowly suffocate because they have a preexisting condition?

"The true measure of any society can be found in how it treats its most vulnerable members" -- Mahatma Gandhi



Do you really think that someone deserves to slowly suffocate to death simply because they're a certain age?
Yes. The world has sacrificed billions because of C-19 but has it made the same investment to combat cancer? Which is the bigger annual killer?
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank VFR on top for this useful post:
  #11954  
Old 26.08.2020, 07:52
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: CH
Posts: 10,861
Groaned at 346 Times in 282 Posts
Thanked 15,912 Times in 8,115 Posts
greenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
Yes. The world has sacrificed billions because of C-19 but has it made the same investment to combat cancer? Which is the bigger annual killer?
Thank goodness you're not in charge of running "the world".....
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank greenmount for this useful post:
  #11955  
Old 26.08.2020, 07:55
Banned
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: BaselStadt
Posts: 482
Groaned at 91 Times in 42 Posts
Thanked 974 Times in 393 Posts
CodPeace has a reputation beyond reputeCodPeace has a reputation beyond reputeCodPeace has a reputation beyond reputeCodPeace has a reputation beyond reputeCodPeace has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

On the radio this morning, the CFR of Covid has reduced to a third of what it was at the beginning of the pandemic, as the medical services now have some experience of dealing with it.
Reply With Quote
  #11956  
Old 26.08.2020, 08:00
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Risch
Posts: 791
Groaned at 39 Times in 24 Posts
Thanked 864 Times in 446 Posts
KiwiSteve has a reputation beyond reputeKiwiSteve has a reputation beyond reputeKiwiSteve has a reputation beyond reputeKiwiSteve has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
There's an interesting opinion piece at BBG, the overall mortality rate on 2020 is approaching to the 1918 influenza in NYC....and there's still 4 colder months to go https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/ar...o-top-1918-flu



.............. it kills the narrative of the defeat of infectious diseases in the developed world. It's not the magnitude of the mortality rate what matters but the incertitude left after the triumph narrative is crushed down by reality.
Not sure; the peaks are due to outbreaks of infectious diseases, then and now. The generally much higher baselines in days gone by are due to ....... lower mortality during childbirth, decreased infant mortality due to decreased infectious diseases, better hygiene and sanitation leading to less infectious diseases, vaccinations, antibiotics?
Really interesting to know how it breaks down

This: At least I hope this helps to raise awareness on antibiotic resistance issue.
Reply With Quote
  #11957  
Old 26.08.2020, 08:05
TonyClifton's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Hopefully soon to be Aargau
Posts: 1,678
Groaned at 589 Times in 336 Posts
Thanked 4,108 Times in 1,726 Posts
TonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
That's an absurd statement.
Quote:
View Post
It might be a tiny bit less absurd if we accomodate for the same sentiment regarding all health threats that exist.

Which we don't.
It’s so weird even now how many of these banal platitudes receives any number of likes. It's the gigantic straw (wicker) man flourish at the end that really makes it

Quote:
View Post
Yes. The world has sacrificed billions because of C-19 but has it made the same investment to combat cancer? Which is the bigger annual killer?
Just the 35,000-100,000 extra cancer deaths now estimated in the UK alone as a result of the Covid lockdown. Far more than who have actually died from Covid
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank TonyClifton for this useful post:
  #11958  
Old 26.08.2020, 09:51
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
Just the 35,000-100,000 extra cancer deaths now estimated in the UK alone as a result of the Covid lockdown. Far more than who have actually died from Covid
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank for this useful post:
  #11959  
Old 26.08.2020, 09:59
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
View Post
Just the 35,000-100,000 extra cancer deaths now estimated in the UK alone as a result of the Covid lockdown. Far more than who have actually died from Covid
Estimated at a worst case 35,000. Note worst case.
https://www.bbc.com/news/health-53300784

Which you have to compare to the lives SAVED by the lockdown.

Oh and I would actually agree that this is one of many things the UK government screwed up. There was no need to suspend cancer screening as the resources needed for that were not particularly transferable to Covid care.
Reply With Quote
  #11960  
Old 26.08.2020, 10:04
TonyClifton's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Hopefully soon to be Aargau
Posts: 1,678
Groaned at 589 Times in 336 Posts
Thanked 4,108 Times in 1,726 Posts
TonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
How long before he realises...
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
cold, corona, coronavirus, covid, covid-19, flu, health, medical, virus




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 5 (1 members and 4 guests)
debriefer
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Coronavirus Jokes makeabigwish Daily life 260 Yesterday 14:09
Coronavirus closed janvier Forum support 18 01.11.2020 13:12
Paid holidays and coronavirus Curtiss Employment 2 20.04.2020 09:22
Coronavirus scammers are out there - be warned Medea Fleecestealer Daily life 9 18.04.2020 18:53
Leaving Switzerland for UK during coronavirus barkingtreewolf Leaving Switzerland 19 11.04.2020 11:45


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 00:10.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0