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Old 30.08.2020, 14:40
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Re: Coronavirus

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Germany went to court to try and stop yesterday's protest. In Europe people have been put in prison for venturing further than 1 km from their house. People are fined for not wearing a face masks. Tell me again about how the Covid pandemic hasn't infringed on people's freedom.
How about the freedom to not be infected or to not have your kids infected by some idiot who thinks it's his 'personal freedom' to potentially infect other people with a deadly virus?

If you're seriously THAT dense to not realize that trying to end a pandemic is more important than some crybaby's 'personal freedom', then I guess there is really no help for you.

Many doctors wear masks all day long, every day, as part of their work. Yet here these idiots who have a warped sense of entitlement regarding their 'personal freedoms' cry about having to wear one in the store.

Grow up. Face reality. Wear a damn mask and stop bitching about it.
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  #12022  
Old 30.08.2020, 16:40
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Re: Coronavirus

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Tell me again about how the Covid pandemic hasn't infringed on people's freedom.
Somehow, through ignorance or choice, you consistently refuse to acknowledge the interdependency of individual freedom and others' safety and well being. Your freedom ends where your actions endanger others. Pretty simple and universal.
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Old 30.08.2020, 16:41
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Re: Coronavirus

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Grow up. Face reality. Wear a damn mask and stop bitching about it.
Amen
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Old 30.08.2020, 16:56
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Re: Coronavirus

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Germany went to court to try and stop yesterday's protest. In Europe people have been put in prison for venturing further than 1 km from their house. People are fined for not wearing a face masks. Tell me again about how the Covid pandemic hasn't infringed on people's freedom.
You really do set yourself up for criticism. Those are the words of a selfish, uncaring individual with no concern for society as a whole.

Loss of life would be the ultimate infringement on freedom, wouldn't it? What next—get rid of traffic lights? How dare they tell me to stop at intersections? And why should I have to wear clothes in public? Also, why is rape a crime? Surely people should be free to express their sexual urges as they wish?

Idiotic suggestions, right? Regrettably, you have just painted yourself an idiot. Clearly, people like you need to be told what to do in order to protect society as a whole.
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Old 30.08.2020, 18:56
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Re: Coronavirus

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How about the freedom to not be infected or to not have your kids infected by some idiot who thinks it's his 'personal freedom' to potentially infect other people with a deadly virus?
The death count is now extremely low, though.

Catching the coronavirus doesn't mean being given a death sentence. Transmitting the virus doesn't mean killing someone or their kid, either. You're not even guaranteed to have symptoms. We are not in the same situation as the one we had last Spring. The semi-lockdown was set up to avoid over-crowding the hospitals, and it didn't happen. The people who died were already immuno-compromised and older.
Now, there is this hysterical and irrational focus on infections (despite no one suffering all that much, judging by the hospitalizations, and even fewer dying) as if spending a couple of weeks with mild symptoms of this was worth:
impairing the economy,
forcing isolation on people and thereby intensifying already existing symptoms of depression, loneliness, suicidal ideation, drug abuse,
generating a vague sense of social malaise,
creating confusion to children around the intricacies of healthy social life,
making people avoid shops and local gatherings,
etc.

You could even make the case that catching this virus and building some form of immunity against it to get it over with now is sensible... if you're healthy. And to be healthy, you have to exercise, eat well, sleep well, manage your stress levels.... something the general population was already unwilling and too lazy to do pre-covid... this massive hysteria over positive cases is just proof of that. Regular exercise builds immunity, but also mental strength. Telling people to stay inside and cover their faces does the complete opposite of that. It's the lazy way out... and it's devastating to people's mental health (and immunity, probably).

Now, the mask itself isn't guilty of triggering all of this above, but it's a definite sign that the focus is geared too much on preventing infections at all costs (for liability reasons, probably), instead of a) looking at how ineffective it is at slowing the spread and b) 'celebrating' the low-hospitalization/death count and seeing this eventually as a quicker path to some sort of herd immunity with low collateral damage in terms of deaths (also, believe it or not, people are still dying from non-covid issues).

And I don't buy this supposed new-found sense of compassion that people have gained for the citizens around them all of a sudden... a lot of people make illegitimate, opportunistic moves on the road while driving to their own benefit with very little worry on the effect on accidents/deaths, they don't intervene when someone's having a physical/panic attack in public, they ignore their depressive friends' reach for help because it makes them uncomfortable...

Wear a mask if it makes you feel better, but don't insult/belittle/wish death upon others who see other means of protection as more effective and masks as a socially hazardous tool.
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  #12026  
Old 30.08.2020, 19:42
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Re: Coronavirus

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How about the freedom to not be infected or to not have your kids infected by some idiot who thinks it's his 'personal freedom' to potentially infect other people with a deadly virus?

If you're seriously THAT dense to not realize that trying to end a pandemic is more important than some crybaby's 'personal freedom', then I guess there is really no help for you.

Many doctors wear masks all day long, every day, as part of their work. Yet here these idiots who have a warped sense of entitlement regarding their 'personal freedoms' cry about having to wear one in the store.

Grow up. Face reality. Wear a damn mask and stop bitching about it.
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You really do set yourself up for criticism. Those are the words of a selfish, uncaring individual with no concern for society as a whole.

Loss of life would be the ultimate infringement on freedom, wouldn't it? What next—get rid of traffic lights? How dare they tell me to stop at intersections? And why should I have to wear clothes in public? Also, why is rape a crime? Surely people should be free to express their sexual urges as they wish?

Idiotic suggestions, right? Regrettably, you have just painted yourself an idiot. Clearly, people like you need to be told what to do in order to protect society as a whole.
You know the loss of life argument starts to wear a bit thin when for at least the past month the suicide rate in much of Europe, and certainly within Switzerland has been higher than the Covid death rate. In fact, it's so far off the mortality of so many other infectious diseases that such an argument is simply illogical. The lack of any feel for the risk involved with Covid is has only fueled the hysteria.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/202...higher-really/

What really is regrettable is that this is just another symptom of disconfirmed expectancy. The behaviour we're witnessing now is all too predictable as is the Milgramesque obedience we're witnessing in people's willingnes to wear face masks in the absence of any compelling scientific evidence.

To return to the point, I am concerned for society, which is why it is essential the hysteria comes to a end. The likes of Pancakes need to stop projecting their fear onto children who are more likely to be struck by lightning than die of coronavirus. This virus is here to stay, and we need to learn to live with it and not hide behind our sofas (or ineffectual masks). What's more, we need to learn to tolerate other people's opinions on this topic where the science is a million miles from being settled!

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-53951764
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  #12027  
Old 30.08.2020, 19:48
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Re: Coronavirus

For crying out loud: it is not only deaths from the virus but a very nasty aftermath, also in very healthy people, that can affect your life tremendously. Fine if you survive but what if you no longer have energy to walk more than a couple of meters, if you struggle for breath often or if you no longer can work because you are exhausted all the time?
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  #12028  
Old 30.08.2020, 19:52
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Re: Coronavirus

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What next—get rid of traffic lights?
Yes, I'd vote for that!

Fortunately, most around here have been replaced with traffic circles, much better!

Tom
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  #12029  
Old 30.08.2020, 20:34
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Re: Coronavirus

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For crying out loud: it is not only deaths from the virus but a very nasty aftermath, also in very healthy people, that can affect your life tremendously. Fine if you survive but what if you no longer have energy to walk more than a couple of meters, if you struggle for breath often or if you no longer can work because you are exhausted all the time?
The consequences of forced isolation and the setting up of restrictive measures are way worse than this (suicides, drug overdoses, domestic violence, unemployment, child abuse, online abuse, loss of academic abilities, loss of friendships, worsening of OCD-type symptoms, eating disorders...).

And people have had those issues you've mentioned forever. You guys are acting like this is the first terrible thing to happen to humanity. People were suffering before and this whole safety/hygiene masquerade is making it all worse.

I'm not even against masks altogether. Just live sensibly. Wear them when you find yourself very close to others and develop healthy lifestyle habits. Keep your distance. But stop spreading anxiety. Living in constant fear will make everyone weaker. Most people who get this will be fine in the long term.
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  #12030  
Old 30.08.2020, 21:03
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Re: Coronavirus

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Wear a mask if it makes you feel better, but don't insult/belittle/wish death upon others who see other means of protection as more effective and masks as a socially hazardous tool.
No, they're entitled to their opinions but required to wear a mask when and where recommended by authorities. Is that simple. Just follow the rules, what you think is your business.

On the other hand I don't know if inciting others to disobey official recommendations is quite OK....
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Old 30.08.2020, 21:34
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Re: Coronavirus

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No, they're entitled to their opinions but required to wear a mask when and where recommended by authorities. Is that simple. Just follow the rules, what you think is your business.

On the other hand I don't know if inciting others to disobey official recommendations is quite OK....
Where did I incite people to disobey the requirement? You can be skeptical about masks but still wear them out of compliance/to avoid conflict. You don't have much of a choice.

I'm talking about the mindset... the virtue-signalling/shaming that people do online to others who disagree with them. One person will typically be voicing their skepticism over masks and the others would be hurling insults at them, calling them a psychopath and overtly wishing the disease upon them. It's sick.

If you think the authorities have your best interests/health at heart and are managing this 'crisis' with a full knowledge of the consequences of their decisions, you are wrong.
Throughout this whole thing, the general consensus was to protect the weaker and the elderly, yet they were left to die in the most cruelest of ways (in complete solitude) during the semi-lockdown. That tells you everything you need to know.
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  #12032  
Old 31.08.2020, 09:13
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Re: Coronavirus

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Where did I incite people to disobey the requirement?
I didn't say you did.

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You can be skeptical about masks but still wear them out of compliance/to avoid conflict. You don't have much of a choice.
Exactly.

Voicing skepticism toward masks is one thing, relentlessly telling people how wrong all these decision were - the lockdown, social distancing, masks etc etc is something else. I refrain from pointing out what that is, it has already been done here ad nauseam and I started to believe it's unkind. Some people can't get it.
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  #12033  
Old 31.08.2020, 09:22
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Re: Coronavirus

The Tony Cliftons of the world (you know, the contrarians and the modern idiotic phenomenon: the Libertarian) only need to find the one shaky example that goes against the overwhelming majority of evidence, and they're so gosh darn proud of themselves that their simple brain distilled a boatload of information down to a single meme, that they have to share it with the world in the most arrogant, boisterous manner. It comes from getting one lolly pop too many for putting on their own underwear.

Tony, suicide in Switzerland has always been a leading cause of death, and we still wear our seatbelts, don't we.
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  #12034  
Old 31.08.2020, 09:30
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Re: Coronavirus

In all my years on this good earth, and there have been many, have I ever witnessed a virus that has affected the way we react towards each other in both at work and privately as now.

I never thought in a million years that I would have to wear a mask at work and if I didn't, I would get fired.

Those are the facts. I agree about having to learn how to live with this. The question is "how".

I've lost at least five people I know in the past two months. None to COVID but one to suicide lastly triggered by COVID anxiety.
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Last edited by olygirl; 31.08.2020 at 09:51. Reason: Clarity.... To be specific, I've added "as we do now."
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Old 31.08.2020, 09:55
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Re: Coronavirus

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The Tony Cliftons of the world (you know, the contrarians and the modern idiotic phenomenon: the Libertarian) only need to find the one shaky example that goes against the overwhelming majority of evidence, and they're so gosh darn proud of themselves that their simple brain distilled a boatload of information down to a single meme, that they have to share it with the world in the most arrogant, boisterous manner. It comes from getting one lolly pop too many for putting on their own underwear.

Tony, suicide in Switzerland has always been a leading cause of death, and we still wear our seatbelts, don't we.
I know it is very discomforting to have something that you were so convinced about disproved, but do you really have to resort to insults and lies? I mean memes, seriously? I've never posted a single one!

Covid hasn't taken off ANYWHERE in the world in the way that was feared. You can compare countries that locked down, countries that didn't, areas like the slums of Mumbai where social distancing never even entered the equation to areas where people were put under house arrest. There is little to no correlation between how countries reacted and the effect that Covid has had. Don't take my word for it, go and look for yourself!

We've been averaging around 1 death a day in Switzerland from Covid for around 3 months now. We have increasing cases and a decreasing death rate, you just need to accept that it's over!
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Old 31.08.2020, 10:03
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Re: Coronavirus

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we still wear our seatbelts, don't we.
Sometimes, not always.

Tom
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Old 31.08.2020, 10:05
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Re: Coronavirus

Latest data from the CDC show that only 6% of all deaths in the USA were caused by Covid alone, 94% of deaths had other underlying health conditions. This just adds to the now undeniable evidence that if you are fit and healthy then Covid is extremely unlikely to affect you severely.

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/c...#Comorbidities
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  #12038  
Old 31.08.2020, 10:17
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Re: Coronavirus

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I know it is very discomforting to have something that you were so convinced about disproved, but do you really have to resort to insults and lies? I mean memes, seriously? I've never posted a single one!

Covid hasn't taken off ANYWHERE in the world in the way that was feared. You can compare countries that locked down, countries that didn't, areas like the slums of Mumbai where social distancing never even entered the equation to areas where people were put under house arrest. There is little to no correlation between how countries reacted and the effect that Covid has had. Don't take my word for it, go and look for yourself!

We've been averaging around 1 death a day in Switzerland from Covid for around 3 months now. We have increasing cases and a decreasing death rate, you just need to accept that it's over!
"Why, sometimes I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast."
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Old 31.08.2020, 10:19
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Re: Coronavirus

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I know it is very discomforting to have something that you were so convinced about disproved, but do you really have to resort to insults and lies? I mean memes, seriously? I've never posted a single one!

Covid hasn't taken off ANYWHERE in the world in the way that was feared. You can compare countries that locked down, countries that didn't, areas like the slums of Mumbai where social distancing never even entered the equation to areas where people were put under house arrest. There is little to no correlation between how countries reacted and the effect that Covid has had. Don't take my word for it, go and look for yourself!

We've been averaging around 1 death a day in Switzerland from Covid for around 3 months now. We have increasing cases and a decreasing death rate, you just need to accept that it's over!
Be thankful that you have some people to discuss with on EF. Outside on the street people have moved on. I was in Valais yesterday and all the talk was about the last year wine and the oncoming vendange.

At my job, the virus reduced to a line in offers and contracts that says "the promised delivery depends on not being forced to shutdown by health restrictions" or something like that.

But that's CH, I doubt you can says "the covid hasnt taken off in Peru" without getting laughed at, looked down or even punched in the face by someone with several dead family members. In the rest of the developing world, testing is not that widespread because of costs. People dying at home never get counted in the stats.
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Old 31.08.2020, 10:22
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Re: Coronavirus

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How about the freedom to not be infected
this freedom already exists: it's called stay at home.
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