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Old 07.09.2020, 22:10
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Re: Coronavirus

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I don't want to be hostile as I occasionally talk out of my arse and need correcting but unfortunately for you it is you on this occasion who is fact free.

I refer you to her comment of 6 August:

"It has not been sent to review. Just received editorial rejections."

To explain the process:

It goes firstly to the journal editors who decide broadly if this is the type of article they want to publish. They could for instance recommend publication in one of their other journals in a related field in they think the subject matter fit isn't quite right or a lower impact journal if the research is in the right area but isn't "sexy" enough. It doesn't automatically go to peer review. On this occasion it has, and I quote " not been sent for review". Thus rejected totally prior to publication, cutting off peer review for what are entirely and explicitly political decisions.

I invite your further comment.


PS im not a covid skeptic, I just don't believe in gagging scientists.
Do you have a source for
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I refer you to her comment of 6 August:

"It has not been sent to review. Just received editorial rejections."
?
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  #12362  
Old 07.09.2020, 22:12
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Re: Coronavirus

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Do you have a source for ?
M Gabriela M Gomes (@mgmgomes1) Tweeted: @johntfoster It has not been sent to review. Just received editorial rejections.
https://twitter.com/mgmgomes1/status...908867073?s=20
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  #12363  
Old 07.09.2020, 22:14
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Re: Coronavirus

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Can someone explain to me what are the authorities waiting for numbers to be before there is at least simple work from home recommendation and some tougher measures for group events? We are hitting 500 per day this week, which compared to population size makes Switzerland as one of the worst in Europe. How many new cases per day there needs to be before something new is done, 600, 700 (which was the record in March), 1000?
This is just my opinion, but I do think they should begin limiting group numbers again. They really have to do something to try to keep those numbers down so we don't have to go into another lockdown. And I don't think it makes sense to wait until the numbers are already extremely high until measures are put in place. You can tell from the chart that we're on an upward trend again. And now with kids back in school, it's difficult for me to imagine that that's going to improve anytime soon. Not on its own at least.

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Old 07.09.2020, 22:16
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Re: Coronavirus

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Can someone explain to me what are the authorities waiting for numbers to be before there is at least simple work from home recommendation and some tougher measures for group events? We are hitting 500 per day this week, which compared to population size makes Switzerland as one of the worst in Europe. How many new cases per day there needs to be before something new is done, 600, 700 (which was the record in March), 1000?
Well, we're hitting a maximum of 425 this week in one day. But deaths is 5 or less per day. I suppose the authorities will start to implement tougher measures at the point where it looks like the health-care system can't cope?

Personally I couldn't give a toss if it reaches 100'000 cases per day - so long the mortality rate remains low.

Perhaps you might bear in mind that when an economy goes into recession there is less money to pay for healthcare overall. And people die. The authorities have a narrow path to tread.
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  #12365  
Old 07.09.2020, 22:29
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Re: Coronavirus

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Well, we're hitting a maximum of 425 this week in one day. But deaths is 5 or less per day. I suppose the authorities will start to implement tougher measures at the point where it looks like the health-care system can't cope?

Personally I couldn't give a toss if it reaches 100'000 cases per day - so long the mortality rate remains low.

Perhaps you might bear in mind that when an economy goes into recession there is less money to pay for healthcare overall. And people die. The authorities have a narrow path to tread.
I agree.

Going by deaths rather than cases is probably ok at an R value of 1.2 or whatever we are at atm as it's quite predictable what's going to happen and deaths aren't going to come from nowhere.

This isn't March where we were having many deaths a day with a huge R number and had no idea what was happening.

Kudos to the over 70s for behaving in a way that's ensured we are still seeing very few deaths and for keeping the economy going as a result.
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  #12366  
Old 07.09.2020, 22:31
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Re: Coronavirus

On a more useful point, last week I saw a German medical professor on TV recommending an antiviral Povidone iodine gargle and mouthwash (PVP).

He said he uses it two or three times a week.
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Old 07.09.2020, 22:40
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Re: Coronavirus

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Well, we're hitting a maximum of 425 this week in one day. But deaths is 5 or less per day. I suppose the authorities will start to implement tougher measures at the point where it looks like the health-care system can't cope?

Personally I couldn't give a toss if it reaches 100'000 cases per day - so long the mortality rate remains low.

Perhaps you might bear in mind that when an economy goes into recession there is less money to pay for healthcare overall. And people die. The authorities have a narrow path to tread.

I don't understand why everyone is so focussed on positive cases when the number of hospitalizations and fatalities are declining or flat (in the US and most of Europe at least). This upcoming recession will create more health issues in my opinion. And...we haven't really even felt that impact yet (given government intervention).

Who will pay for this semi-lockdown? Our progeny that is who... At the moment, steroids have proven a useful antidote to those who present in hospital. That is why fatalities are lower (and also the infection has spread to younger people who show minimal side effects which require hospital admission).

I agree with you NotAllThere... Who cares a toss about the number of positive cases? So long as hospital admissions and fatalities remain low, we need to reopen the economy for small businesses. Note: those small businesses which are still afloat! I just don't get it!
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  #12368  
Old 07.09.2020, 22:43
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Re: Coronavirus

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M Gabriela M Gomes (@mgmgomes1) Tweeted: @johntfoster It has not been sent to review. Just received editorial rejections.
https://twitter.com/mgmgomes1/status...908867073?s=20
Apologies, I thought you were talking about Prof. Gupta, not the Gomes rejection.

Here is an interesting reply to Prof. Gomes.

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Prof. UltraDan@DanFunko, Replying to @mgmgomes1

Why not publish the entire rejection letter? That might make your argument more convincing.
As someone who has been on each end of these decisions multiple times, I know that rejection is rarely due to one main reason and usually there is a combination of interacting flaws.
So we still have no evidence that for Prof. Gupta "It seems to be the journal rather than the peers who are making this stance".

And if it was a journal it would be good to see the reasons given instead of simply assuming censorship?
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Old 07.09.2020, 22:44
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Re: Coronavirus

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Can someone explain to me what are the authorities waiting for numbers to be before there is at least simple work from home recommendation and some tougher measures for group events? We are hitting 500 per day this week, which compared to population size makes Switzerland as one of the worst in Europe. How many new cases per day there needs to be before something new is done, 600, 700 (which was the record in March), 1000?
They probably have realised that ultimately heard immunity is the way forward, getting it sooner rather than later is probably the way to go. No of people dying is low, not that many in intensive care.
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  #12370  
Old 07.09.2020, 22:57
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Re: Coronavirus

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Apologies, I thought you were talking about Prof. Gupta, not the Gomes rejection.

Here is an interesting reply to Prof. Gomes.



So we still have no evidence that for Prof. Gupta "It seems to be the journal rather than the peers who are making this stance".

And if it was a journal it would be good to see the reasons given instead of simply assuming censorship?
Crossed wires - haven't read about Gupta so won't comment.
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Old 07.09.2020, 22:58
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Re: Coronavirus

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I don't understand why everyone is so focussed on positive cases when the number of hospitalizations and fatalities are declining or flat (in the US and most of Europe at least). This upcoming recession will create more health issues in my opinion. And...we haven't really even felt that impact yet (given government intervention).

Who will pay for this semi-lockdown? Our progeny that is who... At the moment, steroids have proven a useful antidote to those who present in hospital. That is why fatalities are lower (and also the infection has spread to younger people who show minimal side effects which require hospital admission).

I agree with you NotAllThere... Who cares a toss about the number of positive cases? So long as hospital admissions and fatalities remain low, we need to reopen the economy for small businesses. Note: those small businesses which are still afloat! I just don't get it!
What semi-lockdown are you talking about?
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Old 07.09.2020, 23:01
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Re: Coronavirus

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What semi-lockdown are you talking about?
I was referring to my situation in PA, USA. No indoor restaurant dining at present and so what will happen when winter comes in and outdoor dining is not an option?
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  #12373  
Old 07.09.2020, 23:04
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Re: Coronavirus

So many small businesses and restaurants have gone under because of COVID in the area we live in outside of Philadelphia. My small town looks like a ghost town now and one couldn't get a parking space there before COVID.
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Old 07.09.2020, 23:07
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I agree.

Going by deaths rather than cases is probably ok at an R value of 1.2 or whatever we are at atm as it's quite predictable what's going to happen and deaths aren't going to come from nowhere.

This isn't March where we were having many deaths a day with a huge R number and had no idea what was happening.

Kudos to the over 70s for behaving in a way that's ensured we are still seeing very few deaths and for keeping the economy going as a result.
Agree.

The absence of infections among mid-age or elder people seems still strange to me however. I see lots of people interacting like normal, and many of the young must also interact with older groups in private and in jobs. I just struggle to believe that the groups above 50/60 behave so carefully (I know my parents don't).

And who knows, maybe the virus has mutated in a way that makes it less aggressive. Or we see a sudden increase in severe cases.

Why are cases in Spain and France through the roof while Italy and Ticino show little drama? First "wave" seemed very similar and measure also.

Lots of things don't make sense. We know not much.

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I was referring to my situation in PA, USA. No indoor restaurant dining at present and so what will happen when winter comes in and outdoor dining is not an option?
Ok, thought you were referring to CH. Looks pretty open here.

Last edited by roegner; 07.09.2020 at 23:25. Reason: Merging consecutive posts
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Old 07.09.2020, 23:11
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Re: Coronavirus

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Agree.

The absence of infections among mid-age or elder people seems still strange to me however. I see lots of people interacting like normal, and many of the young must also interact with older groups in private and in jobs. I just struggle to believe that the groups above 50/60 behave so carefully (I know my parents don't).

And who knows, maybe the virus has mutated in a way that makes it less aggressive. Or we see a sudden increase in severe cases.

Why are cases in Spain and France through the roof while Italy and Ticino show little drama? First "wave" seemed very similar and measure also.

Lots of things don't make sense. We know not much.
The Spain cases data make it look like the second wave is as bad as the first. The deaths are barely registering. Logically you would have thought that even more cases than expected were missed first time around? I really hope the deaths stay low.
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Old 07.09.2020, 23:22
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Re: Coronavirus

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I was referring to my situation in PA, USA. No indoor restaurant dining at present and so what will happen when winter comes in and outdoor dining is not an option?
I don't envy your situation. If I were there I would be so incredibly frustrated with the general government response, people's uncooperativeness early on, drawing the whole thing out much longer than necessary. Now it seems there's an overall denial that's splitting the country between believers and non.
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Old 07.09.2020, 23:26
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Re: Coronavirus

I think the Swiss gov't will probably do everything possible to not go into lockdown again, to try to protect the economy. e.g. mandatory masks across all of CH, more limited number of gatherings, etc. I know that beginning October 1st, gatherings of 1,000 or more people will be allowed here, with a permit. Hopefully that won't end up contributing to a huge spike in the #'s.

I hope people remember to get their Vitamin D checked this early Autumn. I take a multi-vitamin every day with 100% vit D in it (Centrum A to Zinc), and yet still, every time I've had my D checked, it's been too low, which my doctor said compromises the immune system. Then I have to go on high-dose supplements for a month or so, to get my D up to a proper level. It also really improves my mood and makes me sleep better. Last October was the first time I really 'religiously' stuck to my high-dose vit D (to get my levels up) and it was the first winter that I've never had a bad cold.

Anyways... Just throwing that out there as a reminder that next month might be a good time to get your vitamin D checked.

Last edited by Pancakes; 07.09.2020 at 23:38.
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  #12378  
Old 07.09.2020, 23:32
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Re: Coronavirus

Eat seafood whenever possible and get out in the sun. Two big challenges in CH.
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Old 07.09.2020, 23:43
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Re: Coronavirus

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Well, we're hitting a maximum of 425 this week in one day. But deaths is 5 or less per day. I suppose the authorities will start to implement tougher measures at the point where it looks like the health-care system can't cope?

Personally I couldn't give a toss if it reaches 100'000 cases per day - so long the mortality rate remains low.

Perhaps you might bear in mind that when an economy goes into recession there is less money to pay for healthcare overall. And people die. The authorities have a narrow path to tread.
444 yesterday so would bet 500 before week is over but the point is indeed also to avoid lockdown. How much bigger hit economy takes if/when people isolate themselves because numbers are rising vs closing nightclubs, making masks mandatory in all public places where there is other people, closing spas etc..

Its not that people stop spending because their local nigh-club is closed, or because they work from home, they stop spending because they are afraid to catch the virus to which there is now possibly bigger risk than ever (did not heard anyone get in in spring but now know 3 people who I normally would meet weekly who have been tested positive in last 3 weeks.)
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Old 08.09.2020, 00:22
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Re: Coronavirus

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I don't envy your situation. If I were there I would be so incredibly frustrated with the general government response, people's uncooperativeness early on, drawing the whole thing out much longer than necessary. Now it seems there's an overall denial that's splitting the country between believers and non.

I am back in Zurich now under quarantine - hence my frequent posts

Sorry, but I don't buy into your argument robogobo. I think governments have gone way too far now. Initially, no..They (governments) had to make sure hospitals were not overwhelmed. And they accomplished that! And now?

Steroids and other antidotes have come into play which have reduced fatalities. Hospital admissions are lower as countries have become better/more proficient at protecting the elderly; most of the recent increase in infections relate to those who are younger. They/younger do not seem to have the same seriousness/affliction which would warrant hospital admission.

In short, I am worried more about the worldwide economy and how that affects the next generation than I am about COVID at present.

Just my thoughts...(and hey..I could be wrong . Just thinking how many so called scientific "experts" got it wrong...lol!

This will be a great book in two years time...
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