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Old 07.09.2020, 23:43
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Re: Coronavirus

I don't know... maybe it just comes down to which perspective you take -- that of the economy or that of trying to help save lives and prevent people from becoming seriously ill. In my personal opinion, at least, I guess I prioritize trying to keep the numbers down so that the elderly and others at high risk can more safely leave their homes if and when they need to, with less chance of catching the virus. Also so that people who work with the public have less chance of catching the virus as well as teachers, etc. For my family at least, if one of us were to catch it, we would most likely inadvertently spread it to my 86-year old mother in law who only has us to help take care of her.

That's one reason I don't understand why some people are complaining about wearing masks. The way I see it, it's one of the few options we have to simultaneously try to help control the spread of the virus AND keep the economy open.
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  #12382  
Old 07.09.2020, 23:55
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Re: Coronavirus

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Eat seafood whenever possible and get out in the sun. Two big challenges in CH.
One big advantage of Frick. It may be a hick town but it's as sunny as anything.
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  #12383  
Old 07.09.2020, 23:57
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Re: Coronavirus

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444 yesterday so would bet 500 before week is over but the point is indeed also to avoid lockdown. How much bigger hit economy takes if/when people isolate themselves because numbers are rising vs closing nightclubs, making masks mandatory in all public places where there is other people, closing spas etc..

Its not that people stop spending because their local nigh-club is closed, or because they work from home, they stop spending because they are afraid to catch the virus to which there is now possibly bigger risk than ever (did not heard anyone get in in spring but now know 3 people who I normally would meet weekly who have been tested positive in last 3 weeks.)
There is no way the chances of getting it are as high as in the spring. Not yet at any rate.
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  #12384  
Old 08.09.2020, 01:11
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Re: Coronavirus

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I am back in Zurich now under quarantine - hence my frequent posts

Sorry, but I don't buy into your argument robogobo. I think governments have gone way too far now. Initially, no..They (governments) had to make sure hospitals were not overwhelmed. And they accomplished that! And now?

Steroids and other antidotes have come into play which have reduced fatalities. Hospital admissions are lower as countries have become better/more proficient at protecting the elderly; most of the recent increase in infections relate to those who are younger. They/younger do not seem to have the same seriousness/affliction which would warrant hospital admission.

In short, I am worried more about the worldwide economy and how that affects the next generation than I am about COVID at present.

Just my thoughts...(and hey..I could be wrong . Just thinking how many so called scientific "experts" got it wrong...lol!

This will be a great book in two years time...
??? You just said you were in PA. Surprise surprise, another denier who doesn't seem to know where they actually are. You don't "buy into" my argument? What, that Americans were uncooperative in the beginning and the US government dragged its feet? Uh, that's not really debatable. Oh wait, everything is debatable for the deniers.

Also quite interesting that as the thread starter your attitude has evolved from extreme concern in the beginning, to now criticizing the government’s response. Talk about 20/20 hindsight.

Last edited by robogobo; 08.09.2020 at 01:28.
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  #12385  
Old 08.09.2020, 01:12
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Re: Coronavirus

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There is no way the chances of getting it are as high as in the spring. Not yet at any rate.
It all started with one person. The chances of getting it are actually thousands of times higher than in the spring...if people don't follow the rules.
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Old 08.09.2020, 07:42
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Re: Coronavirus

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Its not that people stop spending because their local nigh-club is closed, or because they work from home, they stop spending because they are afraid to catch the virus to which there is now possibly bigger risk than ever (did not heard anyone get in in spring but now know 3 people who I normally would meet weekly who have been tested positive in last 3 weeks.)
When you close the restaurants, or shops for non-essential items or even night clubs, businesses fail. The people who worked there lose their jobs, and they stop spending, so less money circulates, more businesses fail and more people lose their jobs.
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  #12387  
Old 08.09.2020, 08:04
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Re: Coronavirus

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Agree.
The absence of infections among mid-age or elder people seems still strange to me however.
I've read that the portion of mid-aged among persons tested positive is about the same as in spring, it's the percentage of 60+ that was significantly reduced. I've noticed that Switzerland has very low death ratio among mid-aged, I think it's lower than in many other countries. I don't know if it's due to the overall healthier lifestyle or good health system.
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  #12388  
Old 08.09.2020, 08:22
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Re: Coronavirus

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I don't know... maybe it just comes down to which perspective you take -- that of the economy or that of trying to help save lives and prevent people from becoming seriously ill.
It's not the binary choice you're trying to make it to be. It simply isn't a matter of life and death for the 99.9% out there. I know this makes for a better narrative, but the facts don't support your argument. The alarmist zealots in this thread, some of which even left the forum, were all professing about how deadly the virus is. Well, now we know it's not nearly as lethal as feared. The next level of alarmism is about the professed long-term effects. Yet, no proper sample exists, it's all small, uncontrolled, limited and mainly anecdotal.

Luckily, governments are much smarter this time around and we won't ever enter another Covid lockdown as the detrimental effect on livelihoods, well-being and the economy is real for the 99.9%. The benefits of another lockdown are only in this forum.
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  #12389  
Old 08.09.2020, 08:50
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Re: Coronavirus

I've maintained all along that countries cannot compare anything against one another due to the difference in how they deal with the pandemic. Hospitalisations and possibly deaths are the only quantitative measurement.

A simple example; in April/May there were few confirmed cases in India but having spoken to colleagues there, they informed me that anyone with symptoms was required to stay at home and were unlikely to be tested. We all see now where India went with this.

I do think the smart response is to not panic. Everyone needs to be careful, take hygiene seriously and use masks where appropriate. We need to live respectfully with this for a bit.

The young seem to think they are immune and life has returned to normal. I see conflicting ideas as to what controls they need to enforce for themselves in different situations - and what their self-regulated controls actually bring for them. It's inconsistency.
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  #12390  
Old 08.09.2020, 08:51
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Re: Coronavirus

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That's one reason I don't understand why some people are complaining about wearing masks. The way I see it, it's one of the few options we have to simultaneously try to help control the spread of the virus AND keep the economy open.
Probably because masks are not that effective at controlling of the spread of the virus? France and Spain have strict mask requirement and are seeing the highest number of new cases in Europe. Since the UK invoked her mask requirement the number of cases has started to rise too.
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Old 08.09.2020, 09:03
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Re: Coronavirus

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...all professing about how deadly the virus is. Well, now we know it's not nearly as lethal as feared. The next level of alarmism is about the professed long-term effects. Yet, no proper sample exists, it's all small, uncontrolled, limited and mainly anecdotal.
How’s the view from under your rock? I think you’ve got cause and effect mixed up.
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Old 08.09.2020, 09:03
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Re: Coronavirus

Masks are effective as long as people wear them when social distancing cannot be enforced. Unfortunately (or fortunately?) people have emotional needs and one of them is social interaction. Not wearing a mask with friends or acquaintances leads to “feel good” moments which I get. What we’re seeing is that infections increase in circles of friends and families. One person gets infected outside of the circle and brings the infection within it. That’s why it’s important to wear masks, especially when dealing with a large mixture of people (ie super spreaders)
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  #12393  
Old 08.09.2020, 09:04
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Re: Coronavirus

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Probably because masks are not that effective at controlling of the spread of the virus? France and Spain have strict mask requirement and are seeing the highest number of new cases in Europe. Since the UK invoked her mask requirement the number of cases has started to rise too.
Says the guy who also notices most people ignore the mask requirements.
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Old 08.09.2020, 09:22
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Re: Coronavirus

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Probably because masks are not that effective at controlling of the spread of the virus? France and Spain have strict mask requirement and are seeing the highest number of new cases in Europe. Since the UK invoked her mask requirement the number of cases has started to rise too.

I think that it's important to distinguish between measure and implementation.


For example: mandatory masks can help but half the population dodging the rule makes it much less effective.


Or: lockdown can help stopping the spread. People massively dodging the lockdown only leads to a lot of infections and a ruined economy.
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Old 08.09.2020, 09:23
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Re: Coronavirus

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It all started with one person. The chances of getting it are actually thousands of times higher than in the spring...if people don't follow the rules.
You logical fallacy is cute It's not the likelihood of contracting that has increased, it's the orders of magnitude more testing being done which is the result for the increased confirmed infections. This is also corroborated by the fact that the death rate hasn't gone up, even though infections have.

But then again, you're free to panic as much as you want to
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Old 08.09.2020, 09:35
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Re: Coronavirus

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It all started with one person. The chances of getting it are actually thousands of times higher than in the spring...if people don't follow the rules.
But why??? In spring the virus was spreading literally uncontrolled. Now they quarantine hundreds of people just because they were on the same premises at the same time with the person tested positive, even without symptoms. People are wearing masks in lots of closed spaces. Why are they higher?
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Old 08.09.2020, 09:36
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Re: Coronavirus

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You logical fallacy is cute It's not the likelihood of contracting that has increased, it's the orders of magnitude more testing being done which is the result for the increased confirmed infections. This is also corroborated by the fact that the death rate hasn't gone up, even though infections have.

But then again, you're free to panic as much as you want to
I see you've joined the "logical fallacy" club. Congrats on learning a new term. The internet welcomes you.

Notice I said "following the rules". I have a neighbor who refuses to bring her 13y.o. daughter with flu symptoms to have her tested, for fear she'll be quarantined and traced. Also, Hick wasn't talking about deaths. He said "chances of getting it". If people don't follow the rules, including getting tested, you've got orders of magnitudes more chances of getting it than you did last spring. Internet memes will be of little comfort in a few months when the numbers skyrocket. I'm not panicking, just doing math.
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Old 08.09.2020, 09:37
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Re: Coronavirus

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But why??? In spring the virus was spreading literally uncontrolled. Now they quarantine hundreds of people just because they were on the same premises at the same time with the person tested positive, even without symptoms. People are wearing masks in lots of closed spaces. Why are they higher?
Ugh. Which part of "if people don't follow the rules" is so unclear?
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Old 08.09.2020, 09:41
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Re: Coronavirus

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you've got orders of magnitudes more chances of getting it than you did last spring.
This is true only in your la la land. Data is brutally refuting this. But then again, don't let data get in the way of a good panic post
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Old 08.09.2020, 09:50
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Re: Coronavirus

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This is true only in your la la land. Data is brutally refuting this. But then again, don't let data get in the way of a good panic post
Go ahead, quote the data that says there are fewer cases now than last spring, or even that the number of cases is trending so rapidly downward worldwide, as to make a second wave so impossible as you say. Nobody's panicking, except maybe you when you imagine the possibility and can't accept it, forcing yourself to say everything is normal again.
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