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  #12581  
Old 13.09.2020, 17:08
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Re: Coronavirus

Having spent the last days in the Oberland, the sheer amount of people not wearing masks on the train is astonishing and saddening. The SBB personel weren't even bothering to tell people, just to check their tickets and move on. Also having spent the day in Thun, just no masks anywhere, no social distancing, everything goes on as normal ....

Meanwhile in canton Vaud, every day I hear from co-workers that they are either in isolation, getting tested or catching it. It's a huge difference from canton Bern.
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  #12582  
Old 13.09.2020, 17:23
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Re: Coronavirus

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It’s now looking like the lockdowns may have been a huge mistake

https://nypost.com/2020/09/06/its-no...-huge-mistake/

It's been looking like that since day one, but hey, better late than never.
An opinion piece which uses some very flaky reasoning (no mention of the spanish flu outbreak of 1918)
And it is not relevant.
The lockdowns happened.
What is important is what happens from now on.
Are articles like these going to help compliance with social distancing measures and the wearing of masks?
I suggest not. In that case, the article is a danger to public health
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  #12583  
Old 13.09.2020, 18:40
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Re: Coronavirus

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Jeremy Clarkson says, ‘What a load of tripe’
Famed epidemiologist, Jeremy Clarkson
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  #12584  
Old 13.09.2020, 19:34
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Re: Coronavirus

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Please stop spreading lies.
Luckily it's only the few of you left on EF that still believe in some complete restrictive measures like lockdown. In the real world...

Quote:
Health Minister Alain Berset wants to avoid a second lockdown in Switzerland at all costs, despite a growing number of new cases of coronavirus.
https://www.20min.ch/fr/story/berset...t-157245011659

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everything goes on as normal ....
We should go back to normal as soon as possible.

Most people have realized this flu is harmless for the majority of the general population. So they are no afraid any more and they choose to live their lives. Absolutely logical and correct approach.
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  #12585  
Old 13.09.2020, 21:32
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Re: Coronavirus

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We should go back to normal as soon as possible.
I'm pretty sure everybody agrees.

Now about the definition of "possible" ...
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  #12586  
Old 13.09.2020, 22:33
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Re: Coronavirus

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It "worked" so well that now amidst new increase of infections nobody is even mentioning lockdown as a possibility again!
Lockdown was only the right option after an initial failing. I don't think we would have locked down at all if we replayed the year. The real issue was the total inaction from when it became clear this was a serious situation.

Now the disease is understood better we can't do a general lockdown again. Given that we now know that the disease kills almost entirely economically inactive people shutting down the economy is just a no no. If we have to do something it should be based on shielding. .
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  #12587  
Old 13.09.2020, 22:43
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Re: Coronavirus

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Famed epidemiologist, Jeremy Clarkson
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An opinion piece which uses some very flaky reasoning (no mention of the spanish flu outbreak of 1918)
And it is not relevant.
The lockdowns happened.
What is important is what happens from now on.
Are articles like these going to help compliance with social distancing measures and the wearing of masks?
I suggest not. In that case, the article is a danger to public health
You either believe in free speech or you don't.
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  #12588  
Old 13.09.2020, 23:02
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Re: Coronavirus

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Luckily it's only the few of you left on EF that still believe in some complete restrictive measures like lockdown. In the real world...


Everybody wants to "avoid lockdown at all costs". Nobody does it for the fun of it, but even Berset hasn't totally removed it from the table and he won't as long as people don't stick to the rules and keep on spreading the virus.

8 million people in the UK are going into lockdown this week.


UK are calling a full national lockdown the 'nuclear option' which is pretty apt.

I find it extremely peculiar to see British ministers banging on about not being willing to inflict the economic harm of a second lockdown upon the country, yet still pushing for a no deal brexit. The levels of irony are phenomenal. British supermarkets are already running out of stock because of people stockpiling with the double whammy of no-deal and possible lockdown on the horizon. Possibly most ironic of all is this Daily Express article published today...

'Brexit food shortages: What to stockpile as no-deal Brexit looms
NO-DEAL BREXIT is now looking like a distinct possibility for the UK at the end of this year. What should you stockpile in the event of a no-deal Brexit?'

PUBLISHED: 14:53, Sun, Sep 13, 2020
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/13...no-deal-brexit
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  #12589  
Old 13.09.2020, 23:07
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Re: Coronavirus

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You either believe in free speech or you don't.
Believing in free speech does does not automatically mean that all free speech is danger free.
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  #12590  
Old 13.09.2020, 23:11
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Re: Coronavirus

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You either believe in free speech or you don't.
Clarkson's used his. AbFab used hers by posting it. I've used mine by being disparaging of Clarkson's comment based upon his blatant lack of even a modicum of expertise in that field, by employing the method commonly known as 'irony'.

Are you objecting to 3 people using their free speech?
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  #12591  
Old 14.09.2020, 02:08
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Re: Coronavirus

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AbFab used his by posting it.
FTFY. Free speech is one thing, but freedom to mess with people's gender is another...

On another note, isn't it interesting that people who understand the dangers of COVID-19 back their arguments with published, peer-reviewed papers and scientific insight, while those who think the whole issue is overblown turn to opinion pieces in the NY Post and the Daily Mail by people like Jeremy Clarkson, who can't even answer questions on his own TV quiz show?
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  #12592  
Old 14.09.2020, 02:55
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Re: Coronavirus

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FTFY. Free speech is one thing, but freedom to mess with people's gender is another...
Sorry AbFab
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  #12593  
Old 14.09.2020, 08:29
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Re: Coronavirus

Israel becomes the first country to impose a second lockdown. Won't be the last imo.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...ional-lockdown
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  #12594  
Old 14.09.2020, 09:42
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Re: Coronavirus

NYT have an article with the name: The Other Way Covid Will Kill: Hunger.

They talk about 250 milion people currently in grave danger to die from hunger in the immediate future.

What they cleverly avoid to mention is that the "the other way covid will kill" is called a lockdown.

Quote:
We hear our children screaming in hunger, but there is nothing that we can do,” said Ms. Bibi, speaking in Pashto by telephone from a hospital in the capital city of Kabul, where her 6-year-old daughter was being treated for severe malnutrition. “That is not just our situation, but the reality for most of the families where we live.”
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  #12595  
Old 14.09.2020, 10:16
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Re: Coronavirus

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They talk about 250 milion people currently in grave danger to die from hunger in the immediate future.
.
and it goes like this:
"It was an omnipresent force, an unrelenting source of anxiety as she struggled to nourish her four children."

no wonder you can't cope if you give birth to 4 babies while your only income is already in the extreme poverty range.
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  #12596  
Old 14.09.2020, 10:26
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Re: Coronavirus

Again from the FT


"Only a fool would draw strong conclusions from sketchy data. The biggest fools this year were those who prematurely declared the spike in Swedish infections from April until June as evidence that the Swedish decision not to lock down their economy was wrong..."

"I consider the lockdown reflex as currently the biggest threat to western capitalist democracies..."

"It was wrong two months ago to condemn the Swedish strategy based on that data, and it would be equally wrong to draw the opposite conclusion now."

If I had posted this, I would have been banned


https://www.ft.com/content/9a1e118f-...1-58b8bd35c0e1
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  #12597  
Old 14.09.2020, 10:37
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Re: Coronavirus

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Again from the FT


"Only a fool would draw strong conclusions from sketchy data. The biggest fools this year were those who prematurely declared the spike in Swedish infections from April until June as evidence that the Swedish decision not to lock down their economy was wrong..."

"I consider the lockdown reflex as currently the biggest threat to western capitalist democracies..."

"It was wrong two months ago to condemn the Swedish strategy based on that data, and it would be equally wrong to draw the opposite conclusion now."

If I had posted this, I would have been banned


https://www.ft.com/content/9a1e118f-...1-58b8bd35c0e1
Some mainstream media are starting to touch the "untouchable" Swedish approach subject, like we have here:

Quote:
Swedes try not to gloat over a healthy economy and a plunge in coronavirus cases

After suffering heavily in the first wave of the pandemic, Sweden looks in better shape than much of Europe. Has it been clever or lucky?
Lucky, as if Sweden was playing red/black on the wheel

But than, you have some that will not mention Sweden by any chance, but you will read something like this:

Quote:
No masks, no distancing: Schools in Denmark defy COVID-19 — with success so far
Go Denmark
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  #12598  
Old 14.09.2020, 10:42
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Re: Coronavirus

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You either believe in free speech or you don't.
Are you comparing this article with the works of Salman Rushdie? I hope not.

Free speech is an important pillar for the "western" world, yet it never has been totally free. Incitement to cause violence, propagate paedophile literature, holocaust denial etc etc are quite rightly banned. However the blasphemy laws are continually misused in the name of repression.
The internet and in particular social media are testing the limits of free speech.
Article of this type are not going to be banned, what is disappointing is to see them posted when their bias is so obvious.
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  #12599  
Old 14.09.2020, 10:49
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Re: Coronavirus

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Again from the FT


"Only a fool would draw strong conclusions from sketchy data. The biggest fools this year were those who prematurely declared the spike in Swedish infections from April until June as evidence that the Swedish decision not to lock down their economy was wrong..."

"I consider the lockdown reflex as currently the biggest threat to western capitalist democracies..."

"It was wrong two months ago to condemn the Swedish strategy based on that data, and it would be equally wrong to draw the opposite conclusion now."

If I had posted this, I would have been banned


https://www.ft.com/content/9a1e118f-...1-58b8bd35c0e1
...an article written by an economist not a virologist. And ironically which totally fails to address the point that Denmark, Norway and Finland all performed better than Sweden in Q2 despite having much stronger lockdowns.
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Old 14.09.2020, 11:05
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Re: Coronavirus

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...an article written by an economist not a virologist. And ironically which totally fails to address the point that Denmark, Norway and Finland all performed better than Sweden in Q2 despite having much stronger lockdowns.
Ironically, you didn't even bother to read the :

"In Sweden, it is now clear that a major reason for the spike in infection rates in the early stages of the crisis was the failure to protect care homes..."

and

"The infection rate in Sweden also showed strong geographical variation. Most of the Swedish cases were concentrated in two regions, including Stockholm. Meanwhile, the southern Swedish city Malmö is close to the Danish capital, Copenhagen, separated by the narrow Oresund Strait. Malmö’s rates look good by comparison with Copenhagen, even though the two operated under different lockdown regimes.

I don’t know why regional gaps were so strong, and my interlocutors in Sweden do not either. If you want to make grand pronouncements about Swedish lockdown policies and infection rates, you should probably make an effort to understand this first..."
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