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  #12681  
Old 16.09.2020, 08:51
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Re: Coronavirus

A federal task force have been looking at the option of following a herd immunity strategy in Switzerland and have concluded it makes no sense. Their reasons include...:
  • Natural immunity only lasts a few weeks or months
  • The cost in terms of mortality and follow-on sysmptoms would be too high
  • The health system could not cope with an unbraked infection wave
  • The economic costs would be too high - economic damage would be massive
Their conclusion:

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Economy and health are not a contradiction in terms of the corona pandemic; what is better for health is better for the economy
https://www.tagesanzeiger.ch/kann-ei...n-553717057551
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  #12682  
Old 16.09.2020, 09:25
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Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
A federal task force have been looking at the option of following a herd immunity strategy in Switzerland and have concluded it makes no sense. Their reasons include...:
  • Natural immunity only lasts a few weeks or months
  • The cost in terms of mortality and follow-on sysmptoms would be too high
  • The health system could not cope with an unbraked infection wave
  • The economic costs would be too high - economic damage would be massive
Their conclusion:



https://www.tagesanzeiger.ch/kann-ei...n-553717057551
(requires registration - sorry)

No herd immunity and we cannot afford a second lockdown, according to Ueli Maurer
https://www.20min.ch/story/haben-gel...n-921664039239
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  #12683  
Old 16.09.2020, 09:26
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Re: Coronavirus

I read this morning that in the US alone, reaching the lower end of herd immunity would require/result in over two million deaths. 60% of a population must get sick to establish just the beginnings of herd immunity. Thatís a number none of the knuckleheads bother to calculate.

Quote:
A federal task force have been looking at the option of following a herd immunity strategy in Switzerland and have concluded it makes no sense. Their reasons include...:
  • Natural immunity only lasts a few weeks or months
  • The cost in terms of mortality and follow-on sysmptoms would be too high
  • The health system could not cope with an unbraked infection wave
  • The economic costs would be too high - economic damage would be massive
Their conclusion:



https://www.tagesanzeiger.ch/kann-ei...n-553717057551
(requires registration - sorry)
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  #12684  
Old 16.09.2020, 09:28
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Re: Coronavirus

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I read this morning that in the US alone, reaching the lower end of herd immunity would require/result in over two million deaths. 60% of a population must get sick to establish just the beginnings of herd immunity. Thatís a number none of the knuckleheads bother to calculate.
That's a speculation. As most, it's wrong. Having said that, ponder on the fact that Sweden records fewest daily cases since March. Less than Norway, less than Denmark

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...es-since-march
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  #12685  
Old 16.09.2020, 09:33
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Re: Coronavirus

I wonder how many of those who have become recently infected:

- have been wearing masks faithfully
- have not been infected by someone in their circle of family or close friends
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  #12686  
Old 16.09.2020, 09:39
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Re: Coronavirus

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That's a speculation. As most, it's wrong. Having said that, ponder on the fact that Sweden records fewest daily cases since March. Less than Norway, less than Denmark

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...es-since-march
Or ponder on the fact that Sweden had a massively longer and harder first wave than any of its neighbours. They are now in the pause everyone else had in June/July. Wave 2 will come, all previous global pandemics have shown this.

Ponder also on the fact that through having less restrictions they had massively more deaths but still managed to sustain greater economic damage as measured by GDP.
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Old 16.09.2020, 09:40
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Re: Coronavirus

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I wonder how many of those who have become recently infected:

- have been wearing masks faithfully
- have not been infected by someone in their circle of family or close friends
Why do you wonder that, maybe you can make your logic and reasoning a little clearer?
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  #12688  
Old 16.09.2020, 09:40
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Re: Coronavirus

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I wonder how many of those who have become recently infected:

- have been wearing masks faithfully
- have not been infected by someone in their circle of family or close friends
Whatever the number is, the mask is not 100% protection, never was and never is going to be. The mask is meant to lower the overall number of infections (both getting infected and infecting inadvertently).

I've said it before, wear the fu$n mask!


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Wave 2 will come...
I am quoting a fact. You're making a speculation. Hope you understand the massive difference between both.
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Old 16.09.2020, 09:55
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Re: Coronavirus

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Why do you wonder that, maybe you can make your logic and reasoning a little clearer?
I'm in close contact with almost 100 people a day, many teenagers. I try to wear a mask at all times but I know at least a few of those people are feeling ill and waiting for their COVID-19 test results.

I'm also aware that the virus spreads quickly in social circles, especially when social distancing cannot be maintained, i.e. family.

So logic dictates that if I wear a mask in public and live alone, the possibility of contracting the virus diminishes. I suppose I'm thinking outloud here.
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  #12690  
Old 16.09.2020, 09:58
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Re: Coronavirus

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So logic dictates that if I wear a mask in public and live alone, the possibility of contracting the virus diminishes. I suppose I'm thinking outloud here.
Diminishes the risk: yes. Eliminates the risk: no
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Old 16.09.2020, 10:05
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Re: Coronavirus

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I'm in close contact with almost 100 people a day, many teenagers. I try to wear a mask at all times but I know at least a few of those people are feeling ill and waiting for their COVID-19 test results.

I'm also aware that the virus spreads quickly in social circles, especially when social distancing cannot be maintained, i.e. family.

So logic dictates that if I wear a mask in public and live alone, the possibility of contracting the virus diminishes. I suppose I'm thinking outloud here.
Then you are considered at high risk and if one of those people you came into contact with is diagnosed with COVID19 then you need to self-isolate or get tested asap at the Unispital clinic.

As gaburko said, a mask reduces, but obviously does not eliminate, the chances of infection.
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  #12692  
Old 16.09.2020, 10:11
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Re: Coronavirus

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I'm in close contact with almost 100 people a day, many teenagers. I try to wear a mask at all times but I know at least a few of those people are feeling ill and waiting for their COVID-19 test results.

I'm also aware that the virus spreads quickly in social circles, especially when social distancing cannot be maintained, i.e. family.

So logic dictates that if I wear a mask in public and live alone, the possibility of contracting the virus diminishes. I suppose I'm thinking outloud here.

Is there a reason why those people are not in self-isolation, or are you working in the medical sector?
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  #12693  
Old 16.09.2020, 10:52
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Re: Coronavirus

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Is there a reason why those people are not in self-isolation, or are you working in the medical sector?
Thatís what I was thinking.
They should be self isolating until they receive their test results.

My sonís uni have made it perfectly clear that anybody who is tested needs to stay at home until they have their test results.
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  #12694  
Old 16.09.2020, 11:49
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Re: Coronavirus

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That's a speculation. As most, it's wrong. Having said that, ponder on the fact that Sweden records fewest daily cases since March. Less than Norway, less than Denmark

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...es-since-march
There's no proof that Sweden has reached Herd Immunity yet. Its actually had fewer deaths per capita than Italy, UK, US and Spain.

The country that might actually reach herd immunity is Peru.
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Old 16.09.2020, 11:51
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Re: Coronavirus

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Or ponder on the fact that Sweden had a massively longer and harder first wave than any of its neighbours. They are now in the pause everyone else had in June/July. Wave 2 will come, all previous global pandemics have shown this.

Ponder also on the fact that through having less restrictions they had massively more deaths but still managed to sustain greater economic damage as measured by GDP.
That's not really true.

On the first point, Sweden's first wave is similar to Spain, Italy, UK at least in deaths so its hardly "massively longer and harder". It is perhaps slightly longer. I guess if by neighbours you mean Norway and Finland fair enough.

On the second point, quite a few cities that had a bad first wave didn't have a significant second wave with the Spanish flu.

Generally those places that put measures in place early and restricted the first wave had a second wave, but still ended up with a (relatively marginal) lower total death rate. https://www.nationalgeographic.com/h...c-coronavirus/

I don't know if there is any economic data from the time, but I would imagine that having two waves is worse than one from an economic perspective.

It's too early to judge Sweden. I personally think they will have a significant second wave, and it will all be to naught, but I could easily be wrong. We are too early into the second wave to tell whether it will result in many deaths or whether it will be just be a gentle increase as in providence, Boston, Philadelphia etc. in the Spanish flu.

Last edited by HickvonFrick; 16.09.2020 at 12:30.
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Old 16.09.2020, 12:06
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Re: Coronavirus

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And I hate to break this to you, but bitching about masks isn't going to change the requirements, so deal with it.
Thankfully, most of Switzerland still sees this as a pointless requirement so there is no compulsory masks in most cantons


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A federal task force have been looking at the option of following a herd immunity strategy in Switzerland and have concluded it makes no sense. Their reasons include...:
[LIST][*]Natural immunity only lasts a few weeks or months
I expect that any vaccine that is developed will only give immunity for a few months too.
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Old 16.09.2020, 12:10
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Re: Coronavirus

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Thankfully, most of Switzerland still sees this as a pointless requirement so there is no compulsory masks in most cantons

When are you moving to AG? Welcome to the land of rueblies and kuhs, a canton of freedom
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Old 16.09.2020, 12:14
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Re: Coronavirus

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When are you moving to AG? Welcome to the land of rueblies and kuhs, a canton of freedom
We have very few cases of covid too. Which goes to show that (whilst acknowledging that masks worn properly are beneficial) social distancing is by some distance the most important safety measure.
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Old 16.09.2020, 12:25
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Re: Coronavirus

For anyone in Vaud, the corona capital of Switzerland, or planning on visiting, the Canton just put in stricter Covid measures yesterday, that come into effect tommorrow as I understand, these include:

-closing of all nightclubs, discos, etc.
-limitations on private gatherings to 100
-private gatherings of 50 or more, mask obligatory
-bars and restaurants, masks obligatory for all staff and clients, until seated. No consommation while standing
-masks required in all enclosed public places, i.e. museums, cinemas, concerts, libraries, public service offices, etc.

Last edited by runningdeer; 16.09.2020 at 12:45.
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Old 16.09.2020, 12:33
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Re: Coronavirus

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Thankfully, most of Switzerland still sees this as a pointless requirement so there is no compulsory masks in most cantons




I expect that any vaccine that is developed will only give immunity for a few months too.
I'm not sure its seen as pointless, just that here in the rural cantons we have a lot more square metres in the shops etc. than the cities, and have low numbers of infections.
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