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  #12721  
Old 16.09.2020, 19:28
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Re: Coronavirus

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It's funny - you'd probably get a similar percentage saying they want them to be compulsory in shops. And yet maybe 10% of people wear one. People are so fake.
I’ve been in shops around Winterthur and while there isn’t complete compliance, it’s closer to 75% or more. So I guess it depends on where you are. But, the fake is strong.
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  #12722  
Old 16.09.2020, 19:36
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Re: Coronavirus

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I’ve been in shops around Winterthur and while there isn’t complete compliance, it’s closer to 75% or more. So I guess it depends on where you are. But, the fake is strong.
Isn't it compulsary there? I'm talking about Aargau - where it isn't.
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  #12723  
Old 16.09.2020, 19:43
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Re: Coronavirus

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Isn't it compulsary there? I'm talking about Aargau - where it isn't.
Yeah. 75% is better than I expected. Lot of on and off
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  #12724  
Old 16.09.2020, 20:03
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Re: Coronavirus

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Oh sorry, I forgot you have a problem with reading comprehension. Not sure if your groan is for the Guardian article I linked or for Sweden statistics, but as you're generally confused, I won't dwell on that.

Let me copy-paste it for the rest of the reading folk around here

Chief epidemiologist puts low number of cases down to light-touch ‘sustainable’ approach.

Sweden also has fewer new daily infections than Norway and Denmark, its Nordic neighbours and its seven-day average of coronavirus-related deaths is zero.



https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...es-since-march

You're now free to extrapolate into the future and spell gloom and doom for Sweden, just like most of the alarmists here did a few months ago. They were wrong then (fact), they will likely be wrong again (speculation)
So what? Oops, you forgot your
No round of gaburko data cherry-picking and childish insults is complete without it.
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  #12725  
Old 16.09.2020, 21:24
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Re: Coronavirus

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So logic dictates that if I wear a mask in public and live alone, the possibility of contracting the virus diminishes. I suppose I'm thinking outloud here.
dont forget about virus, living years on surfaces #sarcasm
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  #12726  
Old 16.09.2020, 22:56
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Re: Coronavirus

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It's funny - you'd probably get a similar percentage saying they want them to be compulsory in shops. And yet maybe 10% of people wear one. People are so fake.
You know, I actually think that might have to do with social norms (and we act according to social norms more than we usually realize). I think that people are sometimes hesitant to wear masks when they are not mandatory because the majority of other people are not wearing them, and they don't want to stand out or even perhaps it's that they don't want to be perceived as being paranoid. Perhaps they also don't want people to think that they're sick and that that's why they're wearing one. And let's face it, they're not exactly fun to wear, especially if you also wear glasses.

Anyways, that is just speculation on my part. But I know that I was one of the people wearing a mask in the grocery store here before they became mandatory, and people would often look at me strangely. Now that they've been mandatory here for the past month or so (canton Zurich), it's just the norm at this point. I was happy when they became mandatory here for a few reasons, including the fact that I am now no longer looked at strangely when I wear one.
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  #12727  
Old 17.09.2020, 00:08
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Re: Coronavirus

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Is there a reason why those people are not in self-isolation, or are you working in the medical sector?
No worries. They are in isolation but what about those few days before they came down with the symptoms? Were they already contagious then?
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  #12728  
Old 17.09.2020, 00:10
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Re: Coronavirus

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Thankfully, most of Switzerland still sees this as a pointless requirement so there is no compulsory masks in most cantons
No, they don't. There's a definite wind of change blowing through even the most conservative of cantons. Those who don't wear masks in tight quarters (trains, etc.) are seen as putting others at risk.
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  #12729  
Old 17.09.2020, 00:26
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Re: Coronavirus

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Thankfully, most of Switzerland still sees this as a pointless requirement so there is no compulsory masks in most cantons
Masks are compulsory in Switzerland in public transport in every canton
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  #12730  
Old 17.09.2020, 00:45
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Re: Coronavirus

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No worries. They are in isolation but what about those few days before they came down with the symptoms? Were they already contagious then?

https://www.health.harvard.edu/disea...he-coronavirus

"We know that a person with COVID-19 may be contagious 48 to 72 hours before starting to experience symptoms. Emerging research suggests that people may actually be most likely to spread the virus to others during the 48 hours before they start to experience symptoms.

If true, this strengthens the case for face masks, physical distancing, and contact tracing, all of which can help reduce the risk that someone who is infected but not yet experiencing symptoms may unknowingly infect others."
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  #12731  
Old 17.09.2020, 04:39
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Re: Coronavirus

The case for making masks optional.

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  #12732  
Old 17.09.2020, 09:26
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Re: Coronavirus

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When are you moving to AG? Welcome to the land of rueblies and kuhs, a canton of freedom
I value my life on the road! Needn't worry about Covid with the way they drive there!

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TonyClifton-Qualified Scientific Pronouncement #412. And even if you're right, what's the point of that statement? We should all just give up now and throw away our masks? Great scientific method there.
Pretty much, waiting around for a vaccine that will only give temporary immunity is not the knock it out of the park solution that many people hope it is. Far better to learn how to live with the virus (without a mask).

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Do you have evidence that the majority of Switzerland doesn't want mandatory masks, or did you just make that up?

According to one poll taken at the end of June, 73.8% percent of people here wanted to make masks mandatory on public transport.

Three quarters of Swiss want face masks and more distance
https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/three-q...tance/45871274

Also, masks are now mandatory in stores in the cantons that have been the hardest hit by the virus. The fact that not all cantons have mandatory mask requirements is due to not all cantons having been hit as hard as the others. It doesn't necessarily reflect the views of the people but more the current situation in those cantons in terms of risk, how widespread the virus is in those cantons, etc.
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No, they don't. There's a definite wind of change blowing through even the most conservative of cantons. Those who don't wear masks in tight quarters (trains, etc.) are seen as putting others at risk.
The only wind of change I sense is the number of people (including scientist and doctors) breaking cover and coming out to say what a farce the whole covid reaction has become. It's a very subjective wind!!!

The fact remains that the majority of cantons in Switzerland DON'T have a mandatory mask requirement (apart from on public transport).
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  #12733  
Old 17.09.2020, 09:51
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Re: Coronavirus

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Pretty much, waiting around for a vaccine that will only give temporary immunity is not the knock it out of the park solution that many people hope it is. Far better to learn how to live with the virus (without a m).
I don't really see why you are so pessimistic on this front. It's pretty clear that protection from infection is pretty decent (has anyone had a serious case twice?) and soon they'll be churning the vaccine out. If we have to take the vaccine once or even twice a year so be it.
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  #12734  
Old 17.09.2020, 09:55
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Re: Coronavirus

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You know, I actually think that might have to do with social norms (and we act according to social norms more than we usually realize). I think that people are sometimes hesitant to wear masks when they are not mandatory because the majority of other people are not wearing them, and they don't want to stand out or even perhaps it's that they don't want to be perceived as being paranoid. Perhaps they also don't want people to think that they're sick and that that's why they're wearing one. And let's face it, they're not exactly fun to wear, especially if you also wear glasses.

Anyways, that is just speculation on my part. But I know that I was one of the people wearing a mask in the grocery store here before they became mandatory, and people would often look at me strangely. Now that they've been mandatory here for the past month or so (canton Zurich), it's just the norm at this point. I was happy when they became mandatory here for a few reasons, including the fact that I am now no longer looked at strangely when I wear one.
Being normal has never bothered me . I've normalised my own behaviour and felt pretty guilty when I went to Lidl and forgot my mask on Friday. As it was it was so empty it was ok.
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  #12735  
Old 17.09.2020, 10:23
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Re: Coronavirus

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So there's little evidence that masks work and even if they do work we can't see that they work.

Regardless of whether they work or not, the severity of Covid simply does not justify enforcing everyone in society, including children, to walk around with their face covered.
The Head of the US CDC giving evidence under oath to Congress yesterday;
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The head of the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention told lawmakers Wednesday that face masks remain the "most important powerful public health tool" against the coronavirus pandemic and may even provide better protection than a vaccine would.

“We have clear scientific evidence they work, and they are our best defense,” CDC Director Dr. Robert Redfield said. “I might even go so far as to say that this face mask is more guaranteed to protect me against Covid than when I take a Covid vaccine.”
Or maybe we should believe an anonymous forum member whose google skills are not up to finding the scientific evidence supporting mask wearing?
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  #12736  
Old 17.09.2020, 10:28
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Re: Coronavirus

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I don't really see why you are so pessimistic on this front. It's pretty clear that protection from infection is pretty decent (has anyone had a serious case twice?) and soon they'll be churning the vaccine out. If we have to take the vaccine once or even twice a year so be it.
I'm not pessimistic, just realistic. We already have flu vaccines that need to be taken every winter, and not by the entire population. In spite of these vaccines there's still thousands of deaths from flu each year.

I don't see any chance of entire populations being able to take the vaccine once or twice a year for several years yet, which is why we will have to learn to live with it.
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Old 17.09.2020, 10:34
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Re: Coronavirus

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Or maybe we should believe an anonymous forum member whose google skills are not up to finding the scientific evidence supporting mask wearing?
The point of masks should be now not even a discussion point. They are mandatory in public transport, in some better managed cantons they are mandatory in shops, restaurants and closed public space, so whoever is against them is really breaking the rules.
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  #12738  
Old 17.09.2020, 10:37
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Re: Coronavirus

This is what all is about coronavirus.

Major's office in Nashville kept information secret about LOW corona cases so they can keep businesses closed and people in fear.

Out of 20.000 cases only 80 have been linked to bars and restaurants yet the authorities kept this fact a secret so they can be seen as they are proactive in the coronavirus battle

https://fox17.com/news/local/covid-1...ing-revelation
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  #12739  
Old 17.09.2020, 10:50
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Re: Coronavirus

Is there a source where we can see the full e-mail thread? The way it's shown now, on video only with a ridiculous zoom on a few words, piecemeal and selective is fishy. This comes from Fox, so just as anything coming from CNN needs to be double-checked, even more so applies to fox
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Old 17.09.2020, 10:55
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Re: Coronavirus

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A federal task force have been looking at the option of following a herd immunity strategy in Switzerland and have concluded it makes no sense. Their reasons include...:
  • Natural immunity only lasts a few weeks or months
  • The cost in terms of mortality and follow-on sysmptoms would be too high
  • The health system could not cope with an unbraked infection wave
  • The economic costs would be too high - economic damage would be massive
Their conclusion:



https://www.tagesanzeiger.ch/kann-ei...n-553717057551
(requires registration - sorry)
Full policy brief in English here: https://ncs-tf.ch/de/policy-briefs/w...15-sep-20-en-2

Quote:
Executive summary

Switzerland is pursuing a strategy that aims to contain the spread of SARS-CoV-2. The goal of this
containment strategy is to keep numbers of infected people, hospitalisations, and deaths low until effective
vaccine and treatment strategies become widely available. This strategy aims at finding a combination of
control measures that allows containing the epidemic while protecting the economy and the freedom of
individuals to the largest degree possible, and to continously improve this approach based on new evidence
that becomes available.

Some have proposed that containment measures should be relaxed so that a large proportion of the
population is infected with SARS-CoV-2 and might become immune to the virus. This policy brief shows
that this approach would cause widespread damage to health, society and the economy, for the
following reasons:

● It is not clear to what degree people who have been infected by SARS-CoV-2 are immune to future
SARS-CoV-2 infections, and for how long immunity would last. Mild infections in particular might
not lead to substantial protective immunity.
● Widespread infection in the population will lead to high numbers of severe disease outcomes and
deaths. When case numbers go up, it is increasingly difficult to prevent the spread of infection to
vulnerable groups.
● COVID-19 can result in prolonged health problems, even among persons with milder acute disease.
● Letting large parts of the population get infected, without overwhelming the healthcare system
would take a very long time, in the range of 1-2 years.
● When case numbers are high, testing and contact tracing capacity will become overwhelmed and
outbreak control will become more difficult. More restrictive and costly measures to control the
epidemic would have to be imposed. These measures are economically much more damaging than
contact tracing and are more restrictive for society. Long periods with high case numbers therefore
impede economic recovery.
● Lastly, exposure to high infection risk over long time periods does not respect people’s inherent
right to protection of their lives and physical integrity from harm.

We conclude that the containment strategy, which aims at keeping case numbers low, is more beneficial
than widespread community spread in terms of health, the economy and society. At the same time, it is
important to strengthen the surveillance-response plan to reduce case numbers in case of a resurgence: to
have the tools to detect and monitor new cases, effective contact tracing, isolation and quarantine, and the
resources to continue to provide excellent healthcare to people who get infected.

The development of vaccines and better treatments is progressing rapidly, but it will take some time until
their safety can be established and they become widely available. It is therefore important that we
continuously seek to improve the ways in which we keep SARS-CoV-2 under control, with minimal negative
consequences for the economy and the freedom of individuals. We further advocate to continue to
communicate Switzerland’s containment strategy clearly and explicitly to the population, while
acknowledging challenges and uncertainties.
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